Search the Community

Some thoughts on 8th Edition and Chaos Space Marines: In very general terms Space Marines and the Bolter are the core mechanic for both Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine armies. The 3+ armor save and the rapid fire 3+ ballistic skill. The farther an army list strays from these two core mechanics the more variable the fortunes of the army. Or at least that's the way things used to be. 8th Edition gives us two very powerful mechanics that, without which, used break both Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine armies. Split Fire and +1 to hit after moving with heavy weapons. These two mechanics are hugely significant for Chaos Space Marines. In addition, equipping a chainsword for +1 attacks, being able to assault after disembarking from a Rhino, the Rhino's 12" movement (13"-18" after advancing), the ability to fall back from combat and embarking into a Rhino/Landraider and the ability for a Rhino/Landraider to move the full distance AND shoot all of it's weapons, being able to put 2 or more different units into a Rhino/Land Raider, being able to take a short squad, the ability to shoot the rapid fire bolter/weapons AND assault, etc. really bring forward a lot of the capabilities that broke and fractured Space Marine/Chaos Space Marines in previous editions. Chaos Space Marines in 8th edition are a whole new capability of beast unseen in any previous editions. For me personally I've been gradually building my Chaos Space Marine Army since mid/late 4th edition. I have always felt that a correct or complete army list needs to contain factions from all 4 gods. Building a list that only contains one god's faction and playing against the same leaves a sour taste that makes me uncomfortable. At the point where only 1 faction is playable and the best armies for Chaos Space Marines come from one faction is a really good indication that Games Workshop broke Chaos Space Marines and rendered them unplayable. This edition they went the other way. To be fair, they empowered units that were made powerful already late in 7th edition (Early 2017), as well as making Chaos Space Marines in general very vanilla, but they added, even in the base index, faction specific mechanics that coupled with the more general 8th edition rules makes bringing a multi-god/faction army that stays with the base mechanics of the +3 armor save/+3 ballistic skill/Rapid fire bolters very solid. When they did this they didn't really change any of the units from their base modeling choices available since Chaos Space Marines were first introduced. I really like 8th edition. There are some detractions. Rhino's lost their firing ports so the process of bringing Havocs with 2 heavy weapons and sit them in a stationary Rhino as an ablative is gone. Obliterators lost both their ability to shoot to 48" and assault with power fists and have to be taken in units of 3. Chaos Icons are pointless (if you want to argue this point take it to another thread), the Vindicator currently (see the Space Marine codex for why) has been significantly reduced (The Vindicators role in previous edition was to wipe out the tarpits, it can't do that anymore). Escalation League: Spoiled for choice! The only unit I currently am lusting for is Khorne Zerkers. I had 20-30 of them but they got nerfed into oblivion so I ended up taking the rather drastic step a long time ago of stripping them and turning them into Raptors/Chosen. They are definately back, with a vengeance. What I would like to do is take 2-3 squads of 5 with 3 plasma pistols and all chainswords and put them into Rhinos with Thousand Sons (Sorry, Rubric Marines) and do a midfield Rhino Assault old school style, but I haven't put that together yet. Base 2 attacks, 3 with a chainsword, 3 plasma pistols for 21 points AND the ability to consolidate forward and force a second fight during Both YOUR turn and your OPPONENTS turn. Oldies but goodies. Thousand Sons (sorry, Rubric Marines) Staying with the core mechanic of +3 ballistic skill, rapid fire bolters with -2 AP and the +5/+4 Invuln save as well as the 1 point Smite/Deny the Witch capability of the squad sorcerer makes this unit a SOLID choice. Add in the warp flamers (AP -2 Flamers?!!) for twice the price and they become very expensive.. very deadly cannon fodder. Welcome back. Land Raider. Actually, you need a WHOLE new way of describing the 8th edition capabilities of the Chaos Landraider. In 8th edition the land raider can do things it NEVER could before. The only other vehicle that can even come close is the Stormraven and the point is arguable given the +3 armor save of the Stormraven. I could probably talk for 30 minutes about the 8th edition land raider, but I won't. The important bit is, Too expensive for the escalation league. Staying solid. Plague Marines. Not really much change. The modeling stays the same from the beginnings. The good part is combi weapons can now fire every turn so the ability for plague marines to bring 3 plasma guns/Flamers to the fight is SOLID combined with the 5 toughness/+5 FNP/reroll 1's to wound. Take a second look!. Noise Marines. On paper they look.. meh. Until you notice a couple different things. First off. Noise marines come with base TWO attacks () AND can all equip a chainsword (). This puts them into Chosen territory. Alternatively you can go shooty with them, take the Sonic Blasters for 3 attacks at 24 inches that ignores cover save bonus after advancing. This is a good unit that exemplifies the "Take 2 units of 5" because you can take 2 blastmasters which will damage a landraider AND 2 doom sirens (AP-2 flamer anyone?) and gets a free shooty attack on death, even in close combat for the same price as chosen and Khorne Zerkers. Noise marines arguably suffer the most from the Rhino's lack of firing ports. Which is which? Chaos Space Marines / Chosen / Havocs / Fallen. For these units you really have to lump them all together and there is a reason why. They all got hit with the vanilla bat. If you want to make a comparison between Chosen and Khorne Zerkers then do that. Other than that specific comparison you are going to be looking at these 4 units together trying to pick and choose the best choice which will be most likely based on massed shooty and relying on the +3 armor save for the additional fight capability in units of 5, but added choices in groups of 7-10. They all can take heavy weapons. They all can take special weapons. Chaos icons don't help any of them for shooty. You have to take a Chaos Lord with them for shooty/assaulty re-rolls (or Cypher for the fallen). Abaddon has lost his special affinity for Chosen, so you can get the same effect from him with all 3 non-Fallen units. Now, here is the reason why. Chosen have to give up their bolter for a chainsword, they didn't have to do that before. Chaos Space Marines have to give up their bolter for a chainsword, they also didn't have to do that before. Havocs.. surprise surprise, have to give up their bolter for a chainsword. Fallen, have to give up their bolter for a chainsword. All 4 units can take heavy/special weapons but they have to give up their bolter for it. So. If you want shooty with 2 attacks base take either Chosen or Fallen. Fallen can't go into transports (But they can go into fortifications ) but that distinction is pointless because you can't shoot out of a rhino. If you want long range shooty you have to take havocs and either put them into a bunker or pay a LOT for the ablatives they will need on the 8th edition battlefield. Something to note, havocs don't get any shooting bonuses like Devastators/Long Fangs/Fallen. BUT with all these units you can bring a mix/match of heavy/special shooty weapons and plus up with added chainsword/pistol whippers to take the wounds and add to the assault if you bring 7-10 of them. Worth their weight in GOLD. Chaos Cultists/Plague Zombies (Sorry, Poxwalkers) Welcome back Chaos Cultists and their nurgle cousins the Plague Zombies (frak.. Poxwalkers) For the escalation league I wish I had some of these. I keep thinking of remaking a bunch of my Ork models into cultists, just haven't gotten there yet. The one problem with Chaos Space Marines currently is they are almost incapable of wiping out tarpits (see vindicator) In return the CSM can bring these cheap bastards that are definately price positive for what they do. You can also look into adding demon tarpits all of which are slightly added cost but bring shooty/assaulty/mind-zappery to the table (The Horror.. The Horrors) Ring in the NEW!. Scarab Occult Terminators. These.. Beat the stock CSM terminators out of the water. If you are going to take termies.. take these, unless you specifically want combi plasma/melta and/or power fist/chainfist/lightning claws. THEY ARE THE SAME PRICE. This is a unit that is built specifically to take in a full 10 model squad. Base 33 points plus 50 for the squad sorc, 4 points for the power sword, add 3 points for the -2AP combi bolter (4 shots ap-2 on deep strike??!!), 22 points for the AP-2 2 shot missile rack for d3 damage at 24"(compared to 25 points for the AP-2 1 shot krak missile at 48" for d6) , and either 20 points for the AP-3 4 attacks cannon or the 23 points for the AP-2 heavy flamer. Add in 1 point smite/deny the witch from the sorc. This unit exemplifies how 8th edition can work. You can put the missile rack ONTO the model with the cannon/heavy flamer, and keep them until the last because you choose where the wounds go. AND that model can fire the cannon/flamer into one target and the missiles into another target. Just.. boggles the mind. Even base you are getting 40 AP-2 bolter shots on first turn deep strike, with a below 27% chance to charge with power swords (bring Warp Time ftw). Add in the 5+/4+ invuln save. Base CSM terminators can't even compare. A list of pointless units. (8th edition, no surprises here, sorry you bought the models for the P2W 7th edition pricing scheme gamesworkshop put together, hope the so-called "waiting for the codex" works for you but given the way the Space Marines codex is built you will need a significant amount of command points and pay for multiple models to make them work) Heldrake. Not only can every unit shoot this 7th edition P2W model down, it isn't a transport. And it costs twice what a rhino costs, so 2 Rhinos can transport 20 CSM models with ALL the shooty/assaulty the pitiful heldrake fails to bring AND generally it will hit the enemy by itself leaving behind the rest of your models so it can get singled out for all the shorter range units in your enemy midfield (first turn) and backfield (second turn) that weren't going to be shooting at anything anyway. Warp Talons. No shooty.. Raptors have shooty. To assault on deep strike you have to invest some heavy resources to MAKE SURE you get an assault on deep strike. If you take the Warp Talons with the Icon of Wrath (and you would have to) AND you allocate a command point to reroll 1 of the charge dice you have a 27% chance to make the 9 inches you would need to get these guys in. If you add in a sorc with jump pack/terminator armor you have a chance to use Warp Time (once! that is deny the witchable!) These guys are 28 points per model for ONE wound. To give a comparison to, say, Occult Terminators, or even base terminators, or even raptors, 56 points for 2 wounds, 4 AP-2 attacks on the charge with a wound reroll, and can't be overwatched on the charge with a 3+ armor save . A base terminator is 38 points for 2 wounds, 4 AP- attacks shooty/2 attacks on the charge with a 2+armor save. BUT they can take lightning claws too for the wound reroll (44 points). Comparing Warp Talons to Occult terminators is even worse given the 4 shots AP-2 from the combi-bolter, the 5+/4+ invuln save etc. The comparison with Raptors is a little different. Raptors have alway been designed as a throwaway shooting surgical strike team. Cheap for 3 melta's on deep strike to take out vehicles, for example. 8th edition kind of took away the one-shot capability of melta's, so Raptors aren't all that and a bag of chips. And in 8th edition, terminators have 2 wounds. Bottom line is, point for point, Warp talons that don't make the charge and stay in the charge (They aren't Khorn zerkers) will be wiped out wasted. Obliterators. I put these on the table ONCE. They are crap. Compared to EVERYTHING else deep strikable they are absolute garbage. And to put them on the board with their pitiful 24" inch range they become a laughable pile of fluffy clowns compared to ANYTHING that can take plasma guns. Mutilators. Worse that Obliterators, they have no shooty. (see Warp Talons) and only 3 attacks on the charge. At least Obliterators (same price) have some shooty. Just imagine throwing 195 points into a 120 point tarpit and seeing them take out 4 models per turn. Ugh Chaos Spawn. 7" movement? WTF. And you can't hide IC's in with them anymore (See Flesh Hounds) Chaos Terminators. You have to take them in units of 5 now. Very expensive for only 2 attacks base. 38 points per model including combi bolter/power axe. You can mix and match (Good!). On deep strike 20 bolter shots plus a 27% chance to charge. Add in combi plasma/melta and mix and match. Now have 2 wounds. Bad when compared with the Occult Terminators, and since you have to buy 5 instead of 3 you lose the capability to provide cheap threat dispersion by deep striking 3 or more units of 3 like you used to. Posessed. Garbage compared to Khorne Zerks. More expensive, no plasma shooty and can't carry a charge into a 2nd unit. Vindicator. Craptastic. Even in the best case scenario you might.. MIGHT kill 5 models. Your average kill count on a 5+ model unit will be 3 models. At a 24 inch range. With NO assaulty capability. With, I might add, the necessity to fire stationary for the 3+ ballistic skill. Arguably even worse than Obliterators. At least Obliterators can deep strike. Absolute waste of points. Unit's Up in the Air/On the Fence. Chaos Predator. This one is a hard one. If you compare a predator with 4 lascannon/havoc launcher/combi-flamer to a 5 man havoc squad in a bunker you have a good idea why it's not easy to choose. 100 points for the lascannon for both. 65 for the Havocs, 102 for the predator, 100 for the imperial bunker. 265 for the Havoc/Bunker, 202 for the Predator. 11 wounds for the predator, 17 wounds for the Havocs in the bunker. BUT after only 6 wounds the Predator shoots at ballistic skill 4, whereas the Havocs in the bunker have to lose 12 wounds AND move to shoot at BS 4+. Add in the Havoc Launcher/Combi Flamer for 22 points (VERY good value). The Predator, if it moves will shoot at BS4 anyway. AND it's a single target that is surgical strikeable. Havocs in a bunker, it takes a bit to wipe them out because of the special rules that fortifications/bunkers have. And you can plop the bunker down onto an objective and have the havocs camp it and pwn anything shootable in 48 inches (8th edition cover saves.. or lack therof ftw!?) Helbrute. For a mix of shooty/attacky it is very lackluster. The shining example is adding 2 heavy flamers to the 2 fists. Unfortunately, given the lack of multi-deployment capability that both 8th edition and CSM gives to it and only having 8 wounds/3+ save making it surgical strikeable it becomes kind of an anti-deep strike unit (8" movement) bait/trap that you kind of hope your enemy falls into. Not really usable in escalation for the points. Chaos Bikers. Not only did they get hit with the CSM vanilla bat (No Toughness 6 Nurgle Bikers for joo!!), they also got hit with the 8th edition OMG we went WAY too far into the whole have everyone P2W dark angels scheme of 7th edition(No Jink bull[big bad swear word] for joo!?!). They are back to being what they are. T5 dudes on bikes. You can't use them to carry biker sorcs. Price compared to Raptors for melta/plasma but w/o the ablative wounds/deep surgical strike capability. There is a small caveat. Bikers can, instead of everyone else, swap their PISTOL for a chainsword. Since they come stock with combi bolters, 4 shots at 12", who needs pistols. BECAUSE they can take an ADDITIONAL item, (not swap) from the special weapons list. This means you can take the combi bolter AND Plasma gun/Melta AND chainsword AND in 8th edition you can shoot both the combi bolter AND the plasma gun. Add in the chainsword for 2 attacks on the charge with a 14" movement you have a very powerful, cost relative, unit. 31 points though for a 1 wound model? That's Occult Terminator territory, 64 points for 2 wounds, no invuln save, no power weapons and AP-1-3 weapons you are paying for through the nose. What the CSM lacks, and desperately needs is some form of anti-tarpit capability. More on that later.

To get an idea of what to include in the upcoming 40k escalation league, we will be doing some matches at the three Tuesday Game Nights leading up to OFCC. This Tuesday, I invite you and your friends to come get a game of 8th edition 40k using Power Level Points. Most people say that 100 Power Level Points is equivalent to 2000 points. For the sake of learning and maybe getting in two games, let's do 50 Power Level Points on 4x4 tables. These games will be mainly to get people to the club and have a casual intro to the new rules. These games will help determine the format and missions included in the escalation league I plan to start after OFCC. Please keep an eye on the threads here in the 40k section for more details. I'll be there around 5 to get some tables setup and challenge someone with 50 Power level points of my Genestealer Cult! Hope to see you there.