Eldar list: fast, Faster, FASTEST!

[fluger]

Play in the Friday event?

I was literally about to suggest this.

[Romans832]

Play in the Friday event?

Except he's not looking for super tourney, he's looking for relaxed tourney to show off his mad painting skillz

[pretre]

Except he's not looking for super tourney, he's looking for relaxed tourney to show off his mad painting skillz

We are trying to find him a middle ground...

[Romans832]

We are trying to find him a middle ground...

Roger

[Lord Hanaur]

Wowa.  That corsairs list is a beast.

[JMGraham]

I've gone backchannel with CaptainA and Mr.MoreTanks to try and work out a workable solution. Cutting into painted models, my lastest iteration drops the scatbikes, drops the d-scythes, and adds vypers and tanks:

 

CORSAIR CAD

Corsair Prince, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs, Void Sabre, Jet Pack

2 Wasp Assault Walkers, with Void burners and starcannons

5 Ghostwalkers (w/ Haywire grenades, jetpacks, and a fusion gun)

5 Ghostwalkers (w/ Haywire grenades, jetpacks, and a fusion gun)

5 Corsairs with splinter rifles in a Venom with 2 splinter cannons.

2 Corsair Hornets with Pulse Lasers

Corsair Vyper w/ Shuriken cannon and scatter laser

Corsair Vyper w/ Shuriken cannon and scatter laser

Corsair Lynx, scatter laser, kinetic shroud

2 x Corsair Fire Prisms

Corsair Firestorm

 

ELDAR ALLIES

Autarch, Warp Jump Generator, Power Axe

3 Jetbikes

3 Jetbikes

8 Warpspiders + Exarch w/ twin-linked death spinner.

 

Here's hoping I don't have to cut into painted models more. It's hard to make an Eldar list that's not brutal!

[fluger]

 It's hard to make an Eldar list that's not brutal!

 

Too true.  

[AbusePuppy]

This is what I find so amusing about the list-rating process. In the name of letting people bring whatever lists they want and have fun with them, people are usually denied the ability to bring the list they want.

[fluger]

The goal has never been "bring what you want", the goal has always been for close games.

[PourSpelur]

It's a matter of perspective. I'd love to bring loads of Legion of the Damned and Heavy bolter servitors without auto-losing.

[Xavier319]

The goal has never been "bring what you want", the goal has always been for close games.

 

Exactly. The POINT of the team system is to have four armies on each team, that are approximately equal in power level to the other team's armies. That way you can set up cool, thematic, close and engaging games for your team.

[JMGraham]

I got a game of 8th in the other day with my Eldar, and it was pretty fun. Things seem to have gotten much more expensive with 8th edition in regards to points, but given that so many great things in the Eldar codex were criminally under-costed before, it seems only fair. This is a list I came up with after my last game, in an attempt to capture the essence of my older Corsair list (which, while toned down even more for last year's OFCC was still pretty brutal). The goal is to have a fair number of fast units with significant close-range firepower. I don't want a sit-back and shoot army as much as I want an army that hits hard on one flank, before quickly re-deploying to hit from another quarter.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated! In particular, how worth it is an Autarch? Is it worth dropping a unit of shuriken cannon bikes?

2000 Points of Eldar Ynnari, using a single Outrider Detachment (4 CP total)

Farseer Skyrunner (171)

[Guide and Doom. Guide and Doom. Guide and Doom. And Smite. I’d love to have room to fit in the Ynnari caster for access to the soulburst psychic power, but I can’t really think of anything to cut. Likewise, some of the alternative lists I’ve come up with have an Autarch on a bike or with a Warp Jump Generator to help buff nearby troops.]

5 x Kabalite Warriors (35)

Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons (95)

[Some basic, inexpensive troops that can be used for objective grabbing, powering Strength from Death, and the like.]

5 x Fire Dragons (Firepike on Exarch)

Wave Serpent w/ 3 Shuriken Cannons and Vectored Engine (153)

Lynx w/ Pulsar, Shuriken Cannon, and Crystal Targeting Matrix (342)

[These are there to take on bigger targets. Vehicles, monsters, and the like. While the Lynx is good (but not great), it also tends to take a lot of attention away from the rest of my army. It serves as a pretty useful distraction.]

6 x Shining Spears w/ Star Lance on Exarch (201)

[I desperately miss the heavy close-combat punch of my Corsair Jetbikes with an assortment of power weapons, extra attacks on the charge, and the like. The new Corsair jetbikes can’t be configured the same way, and seem less close-combat oriented. It seems like the Shining Spears might be able to give me a dedicated close-combat unit that I can convert out of my existing Corsair models.]

1 x Razorwing Flock (7)

[These fine feathered friends are simply here to die. Horribly. And give some nearby unit (Shining Spears? Fire Dragons?) a new lease on life. Noble, generous bird-friends.My plan is to run them near the Shining Spears and use them to either die (and trigger Strength from Death), or to soak up overwatch for the Shining Spears.]

2 x Hornets w/ Pulse Lasers and Crystal Targeting Matrices (300)

2 x War Walkers w/ Star Cannons (242)

5 x Warp Spiders (110)

5 x Warp Spiders w/ Double Deathspinners on Exarch (118)

3 x Windriders w/ Shuriken Cannons (96)

[As before, lots of fast, maneuverable S6 shooting. I miss the S8 on the Hornet’s pulse lasers, but between them and the War Walkers, having reliable high AP D2 is nice. I’ve considered dropping the Windriders to take an Autarch with a Warp Jump Generator, fusion gun, and power sword. That would also give me the space for a second Razorwing Flock. I’m generally loathe to trade out troops for characters, but rerolling 1s to hit seems like a nice thing to have constantly available. Alternatively, I could drop the Windriders and a SHining Spear and get an Autarch on a Jetbike. Hmmmm....]

 

 

 

[Munkie]

I'm curious to see this list in action. I've been intrigued by the Ynnari, but resistant. The tactical possibilities are a lot to take in and I suffer from analysis paralysis from time to time. They look really insanely good once you get the hang of it though.

As for your DE selections in this...just shameful. Kabalite warriors and razorwing flocks? 42 points out of 2000!? There are so many little treasures in the Dark City. You'll get a taste for it if you dare...

Also, rumor has it (or perhaps an incredulous community) that razorwing flocks are a typo, and may be going to 14 points. I've heard of lists taking as many as 150 and just sweeping the board. It would look awesome on the table, a murder of crows. But they are very good for 7 points. Just something to keep in mind.

[Romans832]

I want to stay pure Eldar... Though I do have Harlequins & the new trio leadership

[Munkie]

I'm willing to dabble with harlequins. They're like the neighborhood bicycle (cards), everyone has had a ride!

[JMGraham]

I'd still pay 14. I'd probably still pay 20.

Kevin, you know my style! Sell me on a Corsair-y Dark Eldar unit.

[Kremmet]

9 hours ago, JMGraham said:

I got a game of 8th in the other day with my Eldar, and it was pretty fun. Things seem to have gotten much more expensive with 8th edition in regards to points, but given that so many great things in the Eldar codex were criminally under-costed before, it seems only fair. This is a list I came up with after my last game, in an attempt to capture the essence of my older Corsair list (which, while toned down even more for last year's OFCC was still pretty brutal). The goal is to have a fair number of fast units with significant close-range firepower. I don't want a sit-back and shoot army as much as I want an army that hits hard on one flank, before quickly re-deploying to hit from another quarter.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated! In particular, how worth it is an Autarch? Is it worth dropping a unit of shuriken cannon bikes?

2000 Points of Eldar Ynnari, using a single Outrider Detachment (4 CP total)

Farseer Skyrunner (171)

[Guide and Doom. Guide and Doom. Guide and Doom. And Smite. I’d love to have room to fit in the Ynnari caster for access to the soulburst psychic power, but I can’t really think of anything to cut. Likewise, some of the alternative lists I’ve come up with have an Autarch on a bike or with a Warp Jump Generator to help buff nearby troops.]

5 x Kabalite Warriors (35)

Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons (95)

[Some basic, inexpensive troops that can be used for objective grabbing, powering Strength from Death, and the like.]

5 x Fire Dragons (Firepike on Exarch)

Wave Serpent w/ 3 Shuriken Cannons and Vectored Engine (153)

Lynx w/ Pulsar, Shuriken Cannon, and Crystal Targeting Matrix (342)

[These are there to take on bigger targets. Vehicles, monsters, and the like. While the Lynx is good (but not great), it also tends to take a lot of attention away from the rest of my army. It serves as a pretty useful distraction.]

6 x Shining Spears w/ Star Lance on Exarch (201)

[I desperately miss the heavy close-combat punch of my Corsair Jetbikes with an assortment of power weapons, extra attacks on the charge, and the like. The new Corsair jetbikes can’t be configured the same way, and seem less close-combat oriented. It seems like the Shining Spears might be able to give me a dedicated close-combat unit that I can convert out of my existing Corsair models.]

1 x Razorwing Flock (7)

[These fine feathered friends are simply here to die. Horribly. And give some nearby unit (Shining Spears? Fire Dragons?) a new lease on life. Noble, generous bird-friends.My plan is to run them near the Shining Spears and use them to either die (and trigger Strength from Death), or to soak up overwatch for the Shining Spears.]

2 x Hornets w/ Pulse Lasers and Crystal Targeting Matrices (300)

2 x War Walkers w/ Star Cannons (242)

5 x Warp Spiders (110)

5 x Warp Spiders w/ Double Deathspinners on Exarch (118)

3 x Windriders w/ Shuriken Cannons (96)

[As before, lots of fast, maneuverable S6 shooting. I miss the S8 on the Hornet’s pulse lasers, but between them and the War Walkers, having reliable high AP D2 is nice. I’ve considered dropping the Windriders to take an Autarch with a Warp Jump Generator, fusion gun, and power sword. That would also give me the space for a second Razorwing Flock. I’m generally loathe to trade out troops for characters, but rerolling 1s to hit seems like a nice thing to have constantly available. Alternatively, I could drop the Windriders and a SHining Spear and get an Autarch on a Jetbike. Hmmmm....]

I too have been noodling about with speed-based Ynnari lists mainly because the scalpel is a bit more entertaining for me to wield over the cudgel. While I won't speak on FW stuff as I really don't suggest using it too much right given the lack of balance across the range, I do have some thoughts on your basic list.

1) Farseers on bikes are pretty great especially if you're running Shining Spears which are also pretty splendid.
2) Autarchs fall a little behind the other HQ choices you have access to as Ynnari. For cheap combat heroes both the Troupe Master and Succubus are better deals and your psykers are far more important force multipliers. What you take is a matter of small personal preference, but Eldar have always been about force multpliers and PPM to me so I've been trying to be as efficient as possible in my builds.
2) Try your best to make room for Yvraine. Her powers are top notch and really make the Ynnari faction terrifying as she can make any keyword Ynnari unit trigger Strength from Death instead of just infantry/bikes.
3) I'm not too big a fan of Warriors in Venoms when you have access to Troupes in Starweavers. Sure the Troupe is far more expensive than the Warrior squad (and the Starweaver slightly more than the Venom), but you're getting a pretty amazing deal once you pull those points up. Each Player is a melee monster and has access to a Fusion Pistol which is just crazy pants when you factor in the power of Starweavers, base Eldar movement, and Flip Belts for positioning with the Fusion Pistols in particular making them a nightmare to deal with when coupled with Strength from Death. Really, Troupes and Ranger squads have ruined the other troop choices for me at the moment.
4) Fire Dragons tend to not pull their weight in my lists given that the only transport they have isn't open topped, is expensive, and has a larger silhouette. The dragons themselves are still pretty solid, but I think Troupes outshine them at their dedicated role albeit at reduced range. They also don't quite fit the hit-and-run vibe I'm getting from your army so far.
5)Shining Spears are great or at least they're good without breaking the bank. They're relatively tough, make an excellent "bunker" for a Farseer on Jetbike, and their lances are straight up deadly. I strongly recommend going full MSU with them though as the Exarch doesn't cost additional points and it makes you far less susceptible to morale. Plus, Star Lances rock and two Star Lances double rock.
6) Razorwings are pretty solid as a do-or-die unit. Either your opponent guns it down and you get a "free" SfD activation or you engage a shooting unit likely turn two and shut them down. Pretty win/win.
7) War Walkers are a little pricey for what they do, but they are one of the best targets in Ynnari for Yvraine's Word of the Phoenix spell. If you can manage to land Guide as well on them it's pretty wicked the damage they inflict in a single turn.
6) I don't think Warp Spiders or Windriders are worth their points plain and simple. The Spiders are outclassed by the Drukhari weight-of-fire units you now have access to and the Windriders are a little overcosted for their abilities compared to what you get from Reavers, weavers, and spears.

Other units that fit your theme, but weren't mentioned and are strong are the Voidraven and Hemlock flyers. My personal preference is with the Hemlock as it has autohitting 2d3/10/-4/2 shots a turn on top of being able to stack a -2 modifier to be shot at using Enhance. Couple that with the ability to much more easily maneuver given the second wheel along with the 6+ FnP and you've got a deadly aerial combatant.

[JMGraham]

Ooh! I hadn't really looked at Harlequins before. Lots of decent strength, high AP close combat attacks. Fantastic weapon selection. Durable as elves get with a 4++. I like that they could add another close combat weapon and, with fusion pistols, require me to get ridiculously close to the enemy. 

If I dropped the warriors/venom and the windriders, that should give me enough for 5 kitted-out troopers in a transport. That would also free up my 6th fast attack choice if I wanted to split the Shining Spears. I could convert my painted Venom into the Starweaver, and convert some awesome acrobatic pirate-elves for the troopers.

Speaking of the Shining Spears... I'm certainly open to splitting them, but with Ynnari, it seems that there are pros and cons to MSU. Obviously, small units die more easily (triggering SfD), and are more resistant to Morale. They also give more flexibility in regards to tactics. When SfD does trigger, however, larger units magnify the benefit to a greater extent than smaller units (e.g., 13 close combat attacks versus 7). Larger units also keep folks together better - you don't need to worry about half of the unit failing a charge (it's all or nothing and makes command point re-rolls more efficient), and if the unit is charged, everyone can fight. It also makes Guide more efficient.

I can see benefits both ways, so I reckon the only choice is to try both and see what I think.

[Kremmet]

It is true that large units have a bigger impact with SfD, but unless you're running Yvraine/Yncarne it's also pretty easy for a skilled opponent to whittle them down without triggering any SfD at all. That said, a large unit of Shining Spears with Guide sitting around some Razorwings is a pretty terrifying prospect. 

[Munkie]

13 hours ago, JMGraham said:

I'd still pay 14. I'd probably still pay 20.

Kevin, you know my style! Sell me on a Corsair-y Dark Eldar unit.

 

For DE units that compliment your play style I'd recommend Hellions or scourges.

Both are drukhari and infantry, so they can both ride in venoms or raiders to minimize drops, or scourges can just deep strike where you want them. 

Hellions can deploy 3"+14"+base for about 18" and can re-roll charges on turn 2. You can pick what combat drug when you see your opponent, but I think +1 A is best. Especially because they have S4 Dam2 weapons, so more attacks maximizes wounds in a significant way.

A succubus with M10" nearby gives re-rolls 1s to hit, and on turn 3 that becomes 2+ re-rollable. They have fly so they can jump out of combat shoot, and have Hit and Run so they can still charge that turn too. If your farseer is dooming units, that's a pretty reliable hammer to bring down. 

Scourges are dirt cheap and have a range of very efficient weapons. You can take dark lances and hide in a venom, or deep strike somewhere to minimize shots and hit on 4s. Or blasters where you can move 14" and shoot 18" or even advance and hit in 4s. These do only D3 wounds, so are a good finishing unit but don't have quite the peak damage as dragons. 

They're like fire dragons, but with better tactical options, and better transport options. 

Both of those units should be pretty convertable from the various corsair hovering infantry models.

[Munkie]

Oh wait you don't get the power from pain with Ynnari so no 2+ re-roll to or re-roll charges. You'll have to use psychic powers and command points for that. 

But that opens up even more shenanigans with Hit and Run Hellions. And a succubus potentially preventing a unit falling back, and then strolling out herself with soulburst.

[JMGraham]

Scourges with blasters do look pretty sexy. The lack of d6 damage hurts, but I like the 18" range. Damn, but they look fragile, though. Hellions, I'm less impressed with. They seem to rely on PfP, and I've got a strong preference for weapons with decent AP. 

Holy smokes, Hemlock Fighters are rad. 

With the speed and durability of the Wave Serpent, I was impressed with how hit-and-run the Fire Dragons can be. They have to survive a turn outside their transport, but also can potentially benefit from SfD while they do. The fact that they usually kill (at close range) what they aim at means they have a chance to either strike again at a different nearby threat, or get back on board the Wave Serpent.

Thanks, all! This helps a lot. My brain gets stuck in one way of seeing things and I lose sight of other options.