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Astra Millitarum Questions


Wellington99

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4 hours ago, WestRider said:

The Armoured Task Force Formation is a Core Choice for the Anvil Strike Force "Decurion" Detachment from Angels of Death. The Speeder is the cheapest Auxiliary for the Strike Force, not the Task Force.

 

How confusing - I've been using "Armored Might" as the detachment name because that's in bold, but to the right, not in bold, is the "Anvil's Blade Strike Force" Title. Sorry for the confusion on your end.

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Sorry to hijack the thread. Didn't think it would go on for so long on that SM allies idea. 

My latest AM question is regarding super heavy options. In particular, the Maurader Destroyer/Bomber. I think they count as AM Lords of War. They're ITC legal super heavy flyers, which could be interesting. Any good?

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Well I had a 2000 point tournament on Saturday at the local store, and it was both fun and taught me a fair bit, mostly about my own play style and how I need to change it, but also what worked and what didn't.

Starting off, I took a platoon of 40 guardsmen (Sergeants with bolt pistols and power axes) with platoon command squad (two snipers and a lascannon) in a Chimera (heavy flamer in hull), Vet squad in a Chimera (two flamers and a heavy, bolt pistol sergeant, demolitions, heavy flamer in hull), Vet squad (two grenade launchers, sentry kit), two Leman Russes (heavy flamers in the hull, no sponsons), a Vanquisher (lascannon in hull), Vendetta, Baneblade (two lascannon turrets and two twin-linked heavy bolter sponsons), Lord Commissar as the HQ choice (Carapace armor) that joined the 40 guardsmen, and Inquisitor Coteaz who joined the grenadier vet squad. Overall the list seemed to work for the most part, however I did find there were some things I think I should have gone with instead.

Regarding those that worked, the platoon, Baneblade, Russes with the battlecannon, and Coteaz seemed to be very solid, granted the platoon was pretty mediocre the first two rounds. Coteaz and the Baneblade for sure were the MVPs, with Coteaz killing a full squad of grav centurions with a single psychic shriek, giving the Baneblade twin-linked, and then giving the platoon twin-linked. The normal Leman Russ tanks were as usual very useful

In terms of what didn't, for sure the Vanquisher and Vendetta. The Vanquisher was very hit and miss, only really taking out a Rhino or two and shaving a hull point off of a monolith. Rest of the time it barely did anything at all, especially with the other vehicles. The Vendetta managed to bag a Stormtalon the turn it came in and did nothing else the other rounds.

Originally I had wanted to bring in a Scion platoon of a command squad (4 plasma) and two full squads of 10 Scions (2 melta each) instead of Coteaz, the Vendetta, the power axes, and the Vanquisher. The reasoning was because I had thought that the ability to deep strike and take out certain units would be great, but eventually I decided against it. However, after the tournament, I realized that it would've been so much better considering how little the Vendetta and the Vanquisher ended up doing, and because it would allow me to get objectives that my enemy might have, or at least contest them. Instead I went with those in order to have a balanced list.

The other big thing is that I need to learn to be more aggressive, but in the right way. I ended up making a gun line when against Necrons in Round 2 because I wanted to stay away from their anti-armor, but because of how much was there, I really should have pushed forward more. In the first versus Black Templars, I should have pushed my Chimeras up more and my Baneblade more. The biggest thing however was in the third round versus Space Wolves. I had cast the twin-linked ability on my 40 guys and did First Rank, Second Rank to get 69 twin-linked lasgun shots. While I had managed to obliterate the enemy squad, immediately afterwards I realized I should've done the move then shoot command, as I didn't get a third turn due to time running out and my opponent had gotten the relic worth 5 points.

All in all though, it was extremely fun, and I'm certainly learning more and more with every game. Hopefully I can get enough Armored Sentinels for the Recon company and give it a try.

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Yeah, Vanquishers are very well described as hit or miss. And even when it hits, you still don't deal any more damage than a lascannon would do.

That said, there are some opponent's that fully justify the Vanquisher, so it becomes a matter of playing the odds to see you can justify a unit that is only amazing against some opponents.

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I'm getting two boxes of Ogryns mostly to have for Shadow War: Armageddon, and I wondered what your opinions are on Ogryns, Bullgrins with the slabshields, and Bullgryns with the power mauls in standard play, even though I most likely will not use them outside of SW:A. I've looked around and the general opinions are that the Bullgryns with slabshields are the better option, the suggestion being a unit of 10 spaced with 2 Bullgryns in base contact with each other spread 2 inches apart into five 2-Bullgryn "units", and have them in front of your army.

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4 minutes ago, Wellington99 said:

I'm getting two boxes of Ogryns mostly to have for Shadow War: Armageddon, and I wondered what your opinions are on Ogryns, Bullgrins with the slabshields, and Bullgryns with the power mauls in standard play, even though I most likely will not use them outside of SW:A. I've looked around and the general opinions are that the Bullgryns with slabshields are the better option, the suggestion being a unit of 10 spaced with 2 Bullgryns in base contact with each other spread 2 inches apart into five 2-Bullgryn "units", and have them in front of your army.

I like them and their kit, but I haven't really found a genuinely competitive use for them yet.

I do plan to buy a second kit, so I can field a 4-man slabshield unit, deddog in my command, and save the last for an ork/bloodletter champion.

For slabshields, I like the cover gained. Easily combined with camo gear/netting for 3+ cover. I don't expect much offensively from the unit.

Deddog isn't amazing either, but he's at least able to give orks and marines a bit of a challenge. Plus he makes the unit stubborn.

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1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

I like them and their kit, but I haven't really found a genuinely competitive use for them yet.

I do plan to buy a second kit, so I can field a 4-man slabshield unit, deddog in my command, and save the last for an ork/bloodletter champion.

For slabshields, I like the cover gained. Easily combined with camo gear/netting for 3+ cover. I don't expect much offensively from the unit.

Deddog isn't amazing either, but he's at least able to give orks and marines a bit of a challenge. Plus he makes the unit stubborn.

From the article I read, it touched on that specific point about the slabshields that I underlined. It said that they were a combat unit second, and more of a utility/mobile defensive line first. Pretty much they're supposed to do like they do in the fluff: take hits so your guardsmen don't have to.

When I get the kits, I will more than likely have one of each of the three variations (Ogryn, Bullgryn w/ Slabshield, Bullgryn w/ Power Maul) and then the other three made into slabshield Bullgryns. The reason for the first three is due to what I originally wanted to do: get some for SW: A so I have the ability to field them. Initially I'm expecting the Bullgryn with maul to be probably the best in that scenario, but only time will tell.

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21 minutes ago, Wellington99 said:

From the article I read, it touched on that specific point about the slabshields that I underlined. It said that they were a combat unit second, and more of a utility/mobile defensive line first. Pretty much they're supposed to do like they do in the fluff: take hits so your guardsmen don't have to.

When I get the kits, I will more than likely have one of each of the three variations (Ogryn, Bullgryn w/ Slabshield, Bullgryn w/ Power Maul) and then the other three made into slabshield Bullgryns. The reason for the first three is due to what I originally wanted to do: get some for SW: A so I have the ability to field them. Initially I'm expecting the Bullgryn with maul to be probably the best in that scenario, but only time will tell.

Regarding Shadow War: Armegeddon, if you look at the GW site, they've got starter "armies" for that already for sale. The notable thing is that terminators are part of the SM pack, so I don't think this is going to be the same kill team ruleset as before. From the looks of it, I'm expecting something closer to 500pts of 40k per side.

One thing to be cautious of, is that the bullgryns have terrible leadership and can't get better than S7 melee vs vehicles. So they can't harm AV14 and will struggle against AV13 walkers, plus they'll be the first unit to flee if they lose combat or squadmates to shooting. My plan is to attach a SM character to the unit, probably with a power fist, but AM have options too (the priest with eviserator would work well). AM also lack assault vehicles (without FW, anyway), so getting into melee is a challenge with this unit. And as far saves go, the unit has weak saves when cost per model is considered. They also can't deny armor in melee (can't deny SM or terminator armor), so I'd expect combats with this unit to become drawn out. 

If you do get multiple boxes, I strongly suggest making them all one type (or magnetizing them). A big melee-able unit will be nice to have, even if you don't use it every game. 

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Slabshields are definitely the way to go. A Priest in there is an excellent investment, both to keep them from running and to let them re-roll Saves when they're holding up something that relies on massed damage (e.g. Flesh Hounds). I really just wish they could take the Power Mauls without having to swap the Shields as well.

Regarding Shadow War: Armegeddon, if you look at the GW site, they've got starter "armies" for that already for sale. The notable thing is that terminators are part of the SM pack, so I don't think this is going to be the same kill team ruleset as before. From the looks of it, I'm expecting something closer to 500pts of 40k per side.

You can't actually take Terminator Squads. A Scout KT can take a single Terminator as a Special Operative later on in Campaigns. I'd put it at actually smaller than the current KT set, approximately 100 Points worth of regular 40K. A starting Tyranid KT is three Warriors, for instance.

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1 hour ago, WestRider said:

You can't actually take Terminator Squads. A Scout KT can take a single Terminator as a Special Operative later on in Campaigns. I'd put it at actually smaller than the current KT set, approximately 100 Points worth of regular 40K. A starting Tyranid KT is three Warriors, for instance.

You say that, but I'm looking at the GW site's releases, and they have this: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Kill-Team-2 which comes with 10 scout marines and 5 terminators.... Says rules to include this in the SW:A are included in the box game. 

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I know GW has those starter kits, I already have all but the Bullgryns and Techpriest, hence why I'm getting them. Also I'm getting one box specifically for Shadow War: Armageddon so I can try the different Ogryns out. I'm getting it in the knowledge that two of the three won't be used. I might do them magnetized, which would make them my first magnetized units for the arms.

Regarding the squads, I think its so you can kit them differently. Maybe in a long campaign if you save up enough points you can get two Terminators, but I doubt you'd be able to field 5

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Yeah. All their SW:A bundles come with a ton of extra Models. On that same page, there's a link that has Rules for a bunch of the other Kill Teams, and you can compare what they can take with what comes in their bundle. The Skitarii, Necron, or Tyranid ones provide good examples. It might be possible to take multiple Special Operatives, that part of the Rules hasn't leaked, but it would be a huge risk to do so even if you can, since you spend what are essentially your Campaign VPs to recruit Special Operatives.

Games start at 1000 SW:A Points, and looking through the lists, most things are somewhere around 10x what they cost in 40K, once you add in the gear they usually have, so that works out to roughly 100 40K Points.

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So I wanted to let you know about third party bit makers... I just made an order from puppetswar.eu to get bits to add the carapace options to my non gw imperial knights (dreamforge-games.com leviathans @28 mm scale). As you are buying mostly starter packs it might be helpful to build out somethings. 

 

Another one I really like is maxmini.eu

 

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13 minutes ago, Wellington99 said:

Speaking of Knights, how do you think they compare to the likes of the Baneblade varients? As in, when would you take a "standard" Knight over the Baneblade?

So much better! Mostly for the better bs and melee capabilities. The bane blade has more raw power at a higher points cost and requires melee protection. The knight can just do his thing drawing fire. 375 for 2 battle cannon shots and two heavy stubbers is pretty good but the avenger gattling cannon  is where it is at! Heavy flamer for assault target (this guy can shoot different targets with each gun), 12 str 6 ap3 rending shots, a heavy stubber, option to add a carapace weapon, and a str D combat weapon with stomp... very versatile. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been talking to a friend of mine who is wanting to get into 40k, and we've run into an issue. According to him, every battle report he's seen with Wyvrns show them as having 4 shots each, while ones I've seen show them as having only 2 each. In reading the stats for the guns, it seems to confirm what he said, but I'm still unsure based on what I've seen for all the other twin linked weapons which have a second gun next to them (see the twin linked autocannon on the Exterminator or the twin linked lascannons). Do they have 4 twin linked shots or only 2?

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10 hours ago, Wellington99 said:

I've been talking to a friend of mine who is wanting to get into 40k, and we've run into an issue. According to him, every battle report he's seen with Wyvrns show them as having 4 shots each, while ones I've seen show them as having only 2 each. In reading the stats for the guns, it seems to confirm what he said, but I'm still unsure based on what I've seen for all the other twin linked weapons which have a second gun next to them (see the twin linked autocannon on the Exterminator or the twin linked lascannons). Do they have 4 twin linked shots or only 2?

This is a case of the Wyvern having a total of what normally would be four guns. But in the current 40k are two pairs of twin linked guns each of the pairs has 2 shots. The vehicle before damage has 4 twin linked shots. A weapon destroyed result will drop it to 2 twin linked shots. 

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2 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

This is a case of the Wyvern having a total of what normally would be four guns. But in the current 40k are two pairs of twin linked guns each of the pairs has 2 shots. The vehicle before damage has 4 twin linked shots. A weapon destroyed result will drop it to 2 twin linked shots. 

Unless the Weapon Destroyed result ends up taking out the Hull Heavy Bolter instead :P

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On April 7, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Wellington99 said:

Speaking of Knights, how do you think they compare to the likes of the Baneblade varients? As in, when would you take a "standard" Knight over the Baneblade?

The Knights are better suited for 2,000pt games. The Baneblade (and variants) will only shine in apocalypse size games with much larger tables. Get yourself an 8'x8' table with 10k per side, and those Baneblades will start working right. It's not just the unit rules, the model itself is rather large for a 6'x4' table. Some of the Baneblade variants are intended to function as a transport, but given the cost of the unit and the superheavy, and you can't really field enough other things to make them work. Plus, the commonly enforced LoW limit of 1 (ITC) means that fielding multiple baneblades is out. Basically, the Baneblade is a bigger scale leman russ, and really only functions in games where it fills as much of your army as a normal leman russ would. 

Imperial Knights, on the other hand, are very well suited for under 2k point games and function nicely on small tables. For Astra Militarum, the main challenge in fielding a Knight is that you can't really assist it in melee (maybe with psychic powers). 

On April 21, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Wellington99 said:

I've been talking to a friend of mine who is wanting to get into 40k, and we've run into an issue. According to him, every battle report he's seen with Wyvrns show them as having 4 shots each, while ones I've seen show them as having only 2 each. In reading the stats for the guns, it seems to confirm what he said, but I'm still unsure based on what I've seen for all the other twin linked weapons which have a second gun next to them (see the twin linked autocannon on the Exterminator or the twin linked lascannons). Do they have 4 twin linked shots or only 2?

Poorly written, but you have two sets of twin-linked weapons (listed in the unit profile). The weapon profile is given for a single weapon, and they assume you are noticing this and applying it twice. I think the idea is that they were giving themselves room to add that weapon to another unit without altering their unit entry (GW often does this sort of thing).

The downside here is that with two weapons, you can't move and fire both due to it being a normal speed vehicle. Not a huge downside, but if you've seen them shooting only twice, it's possible that they were moving and firing.

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