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  A while back I posted here about making a max filth shooting list if the game heads in that direction...this was the post

 Looks like someone has done this,,well they are probably not the only one Im sure.Anyhow this list was posted over at TGA by a SCE player that found it unbeatable.His opponent ended up posting in the thread as well and pretty much stated that he is a full on competative player and sees no reason to bring anything but the most optimized list to tournament events,,,the game in question was played under the "tournament practice" premise,I did however hop in and kindly reminded the poster that he would be hard pressed to attain any favorite opponent votes with a list like this and he agreed fully.For this player,winning each round as soundly as possible is their highest priority..even though I consider myself a hobby gamer and casually competative,I fully respect this players attitude.

 

  This is the prime reason for favorite opponent votes and soft scores in AoS events

  
   Heres the players list,,certainly more optimized than what I was planning im sure--

 

  Destruction Allegiance,

 

 3 x Thundertusk Huskard

  Savage Boss-General

 1 x 40 Bonesplitterz Arrer Boyz

 2 x 20 Moonclan Grots w/1 Fanatic each

 1 x10 Orrucks

 Kunning Rukk

 

  -The T-Tusks can all heal themselves or each other  d3 each hero phase

 -The Kunning Rukk allows the Bonesplitterz to shoot twice each player turn,,that amounts to 240 shots per player turn as long as the Savage Boss is alive.

-The Savage Boss gives the Bonesplitterz expoding 6`s on hits..so yeah.those 240 shots is just the start lol

-The Fanatics are a great anti-charge feature so that units end up hung up in front of the army for a turn,,thus getting shot off the board.

-The army clocks in at a wopping 174 wounds with 74 models,,very handy when board control is needed.

 

  The main issues in game balance terms I have with this are the points for the T-Tusks and Bonesplitterz.

  T-tusk Huskards are only 320 points,,with their heal and the auto 6 morts at 18",these guys need to be at least 400 points.

   Bonesplitterz Arrer Boyz amount to cheaper than Zombies,,100 points gets you 20 wounds of models with a great shooting profile,2 shots 5+ hit/4+ wound,,shots aimed at monsters have rend -1..all this with an 18" range.Plus a 6+ save,,which usually isint much to gain but that fact that its there allows it to be enhanced by terrain or spells abilities.

  These guys need to be at minimum 140 pts for 10

 

 Anyhow,,,beat this list

 

 

 

 

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HA! Nice try Jacks. While I consider you a friend I am not giving you my Battle Tactics for taking out your army before we play. LOL

I will say this though your army depends on your warboss being alive for a lot of its damage. Most good generals will take him out in the first round of shooting so have a back-up plan for that.

Here are few units that can do it in one turn.

Vanguard raptors

Hunters. 

Hellfire cannon

Skyfires

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 Oh,,not doubt the loss of the boss is a hit to the army,,actually i tried this out just a bit ago with some proxies( dont have 2 of my Ttusks build yet)..One of my Teen boys helped a bit but I had to pretty much advise him how to move and stuff,heh.Anyhow,used my new Vindicator list with the new Vanguard,which I must say I like those now Hunters and Paladors alot!.Anyhow,I used my Venator to snipe the boss out in the second turn then pretty much popped every thing I could from all sides into the castle ed up mob of destruction.He never got to take advantage of the double shooting,,but rem the boss can also give a unit a free move ,so that works if an opponent is trying to keep their distance early on,,he just moves the Arrer boyz twice,then shoots.

   The luckstone thing + Venator is total win:)

 Anyhow,,the real pain of the list is the number of models and those cheesy ass T-Tusks healing each other every friggen Battleround..we tried Take and Hold which probably played right into the main streanth of this list,,still ended up a massive blood bath but in the end he still managed to have one T-tusk alive and I couldnt finsih off the last 8 or so models from the Arrer boys,,so it was like 900 desto to around 500 Order remaining.

 

  Dont get me wrong though,,im not intending to build this guys list as its seems really boring to play,,my middle kid had fun rolling so many dice and all,but really theres not much strat to using it,,its just point and kill things with shooting.I would much prefer to try and get some of the less optimized stuff in there like Yetis and Mournfangs,more fun I think:)

 

  Im too involved in terrain stuff for the upcoming events and getting my Vindicators built and painted up:)

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Easy,

Aetherwing Strike Force
1 Azyros with Lantern of the Tempest
1 Venetor with Luckstone
2 Units of 5 Prosecutors
1 Unit of 6 Vanguard Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows
1 Unit of 6 Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows
2 Units of 3 Aetherwing

2 Units of 10 Liberatoes
1 Lord Aquilor with Staunch Defender

Basically, give you first turn. Lightning Strike the army in position optimal for shooting. Venetor attempts to Snipe your Warboss, if that fails then the Longstrike Crossbows will finish the shot. The Hurricane Crossbow will basically erase Archer Bows or make them lack luster. If the Venetor kills the Warboss than the Longstrike Crossbows will kill a Huskard. If I can get lucky and basically sacrifice some Aetherings in fruitless charges at your Huskards or other Units, I get a free shot that turn. If I win the Iniative and get a Double Turn, the Longstrike Crossbow will probably kill another Huskard (or Reposition with the Lord Aquilor to get another shot at a Huskard), and thats in the Hero Phase. Then Shooting Phase, erase the other Huskard. Welcome to 40k, I mean AOS. 

(This is literally what happenned to me with my Destruction army a few days ago)

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2 hours ago, MikhailLenin said:

Easy,

Aetherwing Strike Force
1 Azyros with Lantern of the Tempest
1 Venetor with Luckstone
2 Units of 5 Prosecutors
1 Unit of 6 Vanguard Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows
1 Unit of 6 Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows
2 Units of 3 Aetherwing

2 Units of 10 Liberatoes
1 Lord Aquilor with Staunch Defender

Basically, give you first turn. Lightning Strike the army in position optimal for shooting. Venetor attempts to Snipe your Warboss, if that fails then the Longstrike Crossbows will finish the shot. The Hurricane Crossbow will basically erase Archer Bows or make them lack luster. If the Venetor kills the Warboss than the Longstrike Crossbows will kill a Huskard. If I can get lucky and basically sacrifice some Aetherings in fruitless charges at your Huskards or other Units, I get a free shot that turn. If I win the Iniative and get a Double Turn, the Longstrike Crossbow will probably kill another Huskard (or Reposition with the Lord Aquilor to get another shot at a Huskard), and thats in the Hero Phase. Then Shooting Phase, erase the other Huskard. Welcome to 40k, I mean AOS. 

(This is literally what happenned to me with my Destruction army a few days ago)

  OK,,if it was that easy,everyone would be doing it:)

 

  First off,yes the Aetherwing is a pretty sweet Bat,,one I would like to field sometime,though first im building up my Vindicator list,,then this:)

   Lets look at your average output on wounds for a first game turn,assuming everyone actually comes in..on a 3+ you have an average of 6 units making it ingame this first turn.But lets just say everyone makes it in and in range to shoot their goodies.Also,as per the new Scions of the Storm rule,,the placement of units from the Celestial realm does indeed count as the units move for the turn,,so they "moved" ,,no bonuses for standing still.

    The Hurricane crossbows -36 shots,18 hits,9 wounds-9 damage

    The longstrikes- 6 shots,5 hits 3-4 wounds  2 damage each for 8 damage

  The Venator..even though it probably works out to around a 50% chance to kill the warboss,having the luckstone and all lets just say he does it.

 Prosecutors-12 attacks,6 hits,3 wounds..3 damage

  Lord Aquilor works out to around 2 wounds with his xbow..2 damage.

   The unit of Arrer boyz has 80 wounds,,9 isint going to phase them.Even puting the longstrkes on them adds another 4 dead models,bringing it to 8 models dead,,still 32 left,,,and doing so pretty much leaves the Ttusks unharmed.If you do happen to charge birds into the arrer boyz then their bravery goes to 7..otherwise they are likely to have lets say 6 more run.for a total remaining of 26.And in this case the Ttusks arent hurt.Now if you are able to go first in the second round,,you can count on probably doing at least another 8-10 counting battleshock,but may,once again have to sacrifice shots on the Ttusks to do so.If you dont get to go first but did manage to kill the boss then you would likely have to deal with 18-20 save rolls from them and another 15 or so mortals from the Ttusks,,and perhaps a few from the gobbos.Assuming 4+ saves all around for SCE that means a total of 25 unsaved wounds to a low model count army..

 

 Its far from easy,,possible yes,but not easy

 

   Due to the lists shear amount of wounds and minimal saves,points payed for rending weapons are pretty much wasted.

 Also,in most cases a Knight Venator is a better more cost effective choice than a unit of Longstrikes.

 

  Now all this being said,,Im happy to see there are players that done think this is cheesy as all,,I wont feel so guilty when I run my version:)

 

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Also you forget,

if I charge my Aetherwing turn one in lets say your archerboyz, and you kill them, I get to shoot them again with the Hurricane Crossbows.

If I get double turn, I get another set of free shots. Its not that I can table everything on the drop, its that I can maximize a double turn to render all your counter punch very lack lusters :P.

 

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36 minutes ago, MikhailLenin said:

Also you forget,

if I charge my Aetherwing turn one in lets say your archerboyz, and you kill them, I get to shoot them again with the Hurricane Crossbows.

If I get double turn, I get another set of free shots. Its not that I can table everything on the drop, its that I can maximize a double turn to render all your counter punch very lack lusters :P.

 

That might work for 90% of the players out there, But a smart one would just not attack back at your Aetherwings. Then on their turn just shoot your raptors instead.

 

At least thats what i would do. (yes by FAQ you don't have to attack.)

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48 minutes ago, MikhailLenin said:

Also you forget,

if I charge my Aetherwing turn one in lets say your archerboyz, and you kill them, I get to shoot them again with the Hurricane Crossbows.

If I get double turn, I get another set of free shots. Its not that I can table everything on the drop, its that I can maximize a double turn to render all your counter punch very lack lusters :P.

 

 Indeed,its a great alpha strike,but also if you get your birds in melee first charge,then I loose 2 less models from bravery check due to the increase in bravery from having enemy models within 3".

 Also,allowing this list to go first,especially against a Lighting strike army will amount to having his troops running toward objectives and generally spreading out as far as possible,and with the boss giving the arrer boys a double move,that bubble can get real big with the 40 model unit spreading out across the board...you will be lucky to get to shoot at much more than the arrer boyz except perhaps the one shot at the boss with the Venator..maybe.This wasnt such a concern before with the Warriro bro hood and its "up to 3" from an enemy" but now that its most always 9" out it can be a problem.The Ttusks threat range for the Frost ice is 26" so you can bet they will be keeping that in mind when determining how to shape the screening troops.

  Certainly a double turn is the ideal situation and would make for a close game and quite possibly a win ,but even still I think you would be hard pressed to take down 2 Ttusks and would likely only succeed in bringing the Arrer boyz down below 20 so as to reduce their shots to 2 apiece.Counting on getting a double turn is hardly an "easy" solution to defeating a list.

  I do agree though that the Aetherstrike is a good solution vs this list,,after the first couple of turns it will be more of a grind out and the SCE should have much better board postion overall assuming its a scenario with 3 or more objectives..fighting battles like take and hold could be very tough to get a major win just due to the high wound and model count.

 

 

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Noticed in the Destruction part of TGA the guy is already moving away from Rukk because of the aforementioned warboss issue and savage orruk 'tax'.  

Frostlord on Stonehorn w/ Battle Brew

Huskard on Thundertusk

Huskard on Thundertusk

40x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (General w/ Bellowing Tyrant)

1x Grot Fanatic

1x Grot Fanatic

1x Grot Fanatic

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears & Shields

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears & Shields

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears & Shields

 

I'm nooblar at AoS so won't comment and how to beat it, or which list is better.  But interested cause this style of list is becoming more common it seems.

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 Yeah its a pretty hefty gunline but is beatable.The list Mikhail posted is one way to go,that being the Alpha shooting list then try to keep the pressure on,,it would work best in scenarios that have the 4 objectives as it could hem the army in early on.

  Other more conventional "combined arms" type armies have issues with not being able to bring all their power to bear at once and risk getting taken apart piecemeal.Were the conventional all melee force may be the one that has the most difficult time with not being able to get to the T-Tusks without going through the screen.

  Actually,im thinking an Free Peoples plus Ironweld arsenal list could actually outshoot it ,but it would need to be configured as a static gunline as well and likely would get wrecked by a backdoor/alpha lighting strike army

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 Heres my version im planning to go with,,a bit more fluffy I think:)

 

   Huskard on T-tusk (General,Bellowing Tyrant,Talisman of protection)

  Huskard on T-tusk

  Huskard on T-tusk

  Savage Orruk Boss Talisman of Protection

  Maniak Wierdnob

   10 Savage Orruk--battleline

    10 Savage Orruk-battleline

    10 Savage Orruk-battleline

   40 Savage Orruk Arrer boys

  Kunnin Rukk

  Im wanting to get away from using the grots as they are so weak offensively.The Orruks are smaller in size which allows for an easier time to menuver them around and arent to shabby in combat with 2 wounds and a 5+ save each,plus they can be enhanced by spells from the Weirdnob..for that matter adding in the caster adds alot more utility for the army and places another target for the enemies ranged stuff to shoot at,possibly taking some pressure of the Boss or the T-tusks.

  I can also sideboard out the Orruks for Ogors if im facing a more elite army or Moonclan if im facing hordes  so theres that.

  Still sits at 188 wounds for the army.

 

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