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New 40k edition


pretre

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As an entity that exists (when you get right down to it) to make money, GW rebooting the rules system makes total sense from a business stand point (unfortunately).

I agree it sucks (as a consumer).

If they were to stop making money they would have to also stop making the models/games so many of us enjoy.

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5 hours ago, spagunk said:

I'm more upset at having to "buy" a new rulebook yet again. Some are saying it will be "free" but I'm pretty sure they are just going to digital only for purchase and then selling limited edition physical copies.

  If they adhere to what they did going from WHFB to AoS then the core rules would actually be free,that would include all the unit dataslates for the entire range.However the Formations would likely be behind a paywall either digitally or in new Codex`s with the latest fluff.The price for the digital formation packs per faction would probably be in the 7.00 to 10.00 range if its like it is in AoS.

  Not saying they will do this,,but it would make the most sense in keeping up with the growing number of competetors who provide free rulesets for their games.

 

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3 hours ago, Psilence said:

As an entity that exists (when you get right down to it) to make money, GW rebooting the rules system makes total sense from a business stand point (unfortunately).

I agree it sucks (as a consumer).

If they were to stop making money they would have to also stop making the models/games so many of us enjoy.

It's upsetting because it was only 2 years since the last one. I don't mind new editions as long as you have a good amount of time to use them. 4 years is frequent enough for me, not 2 years.

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23 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Talked to FW customer service recently, for unrelated reasons, but did mention my concerns over the new edition. She described to next edition as being closer to AoS and seemed to imply that was a positive direction to be moving the game.

Might have to start selling my 40k now...

I'll give you tree fiddy 

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2 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Paying for things that cost a lot of time and money to develop seems infinitely fair to me.

Disagree. Making rules is part of the job to sell the game. That is like me asking for money to develop lesson plans so I can teach. People only care about playing the game/having their kids taught. Everything else is just a labor of love. I have never understood paying for rules. Next board games will sell the rules sperately because "we worked hard on those rules." You got to give to get.

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27 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

Disagree. Making rules is part of the job to sell the game. That is like me asking for money to develop lesson plans so I can teach. People only care about playing the game/having their kids taught. Everything else is just a labor of love. I have never understood paying for rules. Next board games will sell the rules sperately because "we worked hard on those rules." You got to give to get.

Honestly, teachers should get paid for their time spent planning and grading, too.

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I cant believe that people are upset at a rules change. 7th edition is a hot mess that has nearly killed all enthusiasm I have for the game. It's polarized, unbalanced, and stagnant in the extreme. 8th edition is a welcome change, and probably the last chance that GW has to make 40k "great again". I welcome the new edition, and will happily fork over the money for a book. To be fair, they are a business, and they are in business in an industry where you have to make new things, or everyone just keeps what they have and sits on it. That makes no money. Yeah, we gotta fork over some green. New direction, new game, welcome changes I say.

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8 hours ago, Xavier319 said:

I cant believe that people are upset at a rules change. 7th edition is a hot mess that has nearly killed all enthusiasm I have for the game. It's polarized, unbalanced, and stagnant in the extreme. 8th edition is a welcome change, and probably the last chance that GW has to make 40k "great again". I welcome the new edition, and will happily fork over the money for a book. To be fair, they are a business, and they are in business in an industry where you have to make new things, or everyone just keeps what they have and sits on it. That makes no money. Yeah, we gotta fork over some green. New direction, new game, welcome changes I say.

I don't recall 40k ever being balanced, but I agree, it has become less balanced. That said, I'm not seeing any indication that GW has learned from their mistakes, I expect the next edition to be even less balanced. Only thing that seems like an improvement is that their CEO is now more PR friendly (doesn't seem to be doing anything different, aside from being more friendly).

As for editions. I'd be fine with an updated version of this game. I don't want to play a different game entirely, even if it has the same name. 4th edition D&D was fun, but it wasn't a good sequel to 3rd or 3.5 edition D&D. Warhammer Fantasy was fun, and did need an update. AoS was not an update, but an entirely new game. If I'm going to play an entirely new game, I'll go pick one out instead of letting someone else pick for me. 

Regarding sales, I don't think edition changes are needed to make lots of money in this hobby. Yeah, they can update the books, but changing the edition seems counter productive. And if they plan to switch to a free rules format, there's even less reason to switch editions. We still have yet to have a single edition where every codex is current...

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14 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Paying for things that cost a lot of time and money to develop seems infinitely fair to me.

Do you care what you pay for, or would you blindly give money to anyone that had a product which took lots of time and money to develop?

Regarding an edition change, the issue is that people already have invested time and money developing their armies for a game that already exists. GW is saying their going to suddenly drop support that game, and replace it with a new game, under the guise of an edition change. That's why people are upset. 

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48 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I don't recall 40k ever being balanced, but I agree, it has become less balanced. That said, I'm not seeing any indication that GW has learned from their mistakes, I expect the next edition to be even less balanced. Only thing that seems like an improvement is that their CEO is now more PR friendly (doesn't seem to be doing anything different, aside from being more friendly).

As for editions. I'd be fine with an updated version of this game. I don't want to play a different game entirely, even if it has the same name. 4th edition D&D was fun, but it wasn't a good sequel to 3rd or 3.5 edition D&D. Warhammer Fantasy was fun, and did need an update. AoS was not an update, but an entirely new game. If I'm going to play an entirely new game, I'll go pick one out instead of letting someone else pick for me. 

Regarding sales, I don't think edition changes are needed to make lots of money in this hobby. Yeah, they can update the books, but changing the edition seems counter productive. And if they plan to switch to a free rules format, there's even less reason to switch editions. We still have yet to have a single edition where every codex is current...

The change from 2nd edition D&D to 3ed edition was almost a complete rehaul of the game instead of a version update. 

Games can change for the better.  

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31 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Do you care what you pay for, or would you blindly give money to anyone that had a product which took lots of time and money to develop?

Regarding an edition change, the issue is that people already have invested time and money developing their armies for a game that already exists. GW is saying their going to suddenly drop support that game, and replace it with a new game, under the guise of an edition change. That's why people are upset. 

So if people build an army, the rules should never change even if the majority of the player agree that the current rules are a mess? Armies have changed numerous times due to new rules. Currently we are used to small to moderate changes from edition to edition in 40k. But all those small to moderate changes have brought us to our current situation we now have with 40k. If 40k ends  up being closer to a 40k/AoS hybrid but, as AoS currently shows, makes a better game shouldn't we be happy about that? Sure our armies we lovingly made will have to change but that's been going on for 20 years. I used to play chaos in W:FB and when the switch happened to AoS, while being angry at first, I realized AoS is a very good game. It has glaring flaws, needs refined and needs slightly more options but luckily GW now has the experience from AoS to be able to implement the best parts of AoS and the best parts of 40k to hopefully the best version of 40k yet.

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2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Do you care what you pay for, or would you blindly give money to anyone that had a product which took lots of time and money to develop?

Regarding an edition change, the issue is that people already have invested time and money developing their armies for a game that already exists. GW is saying their going to suddenly drop support that game, and replace it with a new game, under the guise of an edition change. That's why people are upset. 

Non sequitur my friend.  Non sequitur.  You dont ask people to work for free.  You'd no sooner do it than i would (barring work you were led to do by Christ, or similar motivations).  Not only is it ridiculous to even suggest that someone should take something without paying for it, but that we should demand such an absurdity!  

No one wants to pay $8 per Sister of Battle.  wrappingthe cost of the rules into the models makes it $10 per model.  I'd rather pay for the rules and not see those insane costs go up per model.  

The hilarity is that companies who publish free rules, aren't.  That's the thing people with less economics education do not get.  Nothing is free.  it's never free.  It's being paid for. Fooling yourself into thinking otherwise is of course your prerogative.  What people REALLY want is to get rules for free so they can DECIDE whether they even want to bother buying models to play it and of course the company's best interest isn't served by doing that so it's "nice" when it happens but expecting it?  Absurd and unfair to demand.  You can LIKE it more when they do...just dont demand it.  =)

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1 hour ago, pretre said:

Same with 2nd to 3rd edition 40k.

Didn't play in 2nd. Was playing Rifts then. They're still on the same edition. I liked 3rd d&d, 3.5 was good too, and I went to pathfinder after that. I did give 4th ed D&D a fair try, and I did attempt AoS when it was new - both are good games, just not what I'm looking to play. 

9 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Non sequitur my friend.  Non sequitur.  You dont ask people to work for free.  You'd no sooner do it than i would (barring work you were led to do by Christ, or similar motivations).  Not only is it ridiculous to even suggest that someone should take something without paying for it, but that we should demand such an absurdity!  

No one wants to pay $8 per Sister of Battle.  wrappingthe cost of the rules into the models makes it $10 per model.  I'd rather pay for the rules and not see those insane costs go up per model.  

The hilarity is that companies who publish free rules, aren't.  That's the thing people with less economics education do not get.  Nothing is free.  it's never free.  It's being paid for. Fooling yourself into thinking otherwise is of course your prerogative.  What people REALLY want is to get rules for free so they can DECIDE whether they even want to bother buying models to play it and of course the company's best interest isn't served by doing that so it's "nice" when it happens but expecting it?  Absurd and unfair to demand.  You can LIKE it more when they do...just dont demand it.  =)

But I didn't ask them to make a new edition. They could certainly keep this edition and still make money. Changing editions is their choice, not the demands of the people. They could fix this edition, without making a new game refered to as a new edition. Doesn't have to be a free errata, they could sell an updated rulebook. The models will sell, with or without the edition change. And their business is in making models, so the edition change isn't about selling models. 

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On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 6:47 PM, Threejacks said:

 I believe what they are getting at here is something that has been standard in AoS from the start,,that is Warscrolls(Dataslates in the case of 40k) have all the unit special rules on them...so you gather the ones that are in your army and thats all you need.

  Now I can see what you mean by getting blindsided by "just knowing your own units",,happens to me in 40k every time I play,,and yes,im sick of it too.The fix to that?  make all Warscrolls(Dataslates) available to everyone for FREE,,this is truly one of the best things about AoS, im speaking about the AoS app.

   With fantasy,the new app removed the need for army books,,sure you can buy the Battletomes for the formations and backround plus other perks like painting schemes and additional scenarios..but they are not manditory to play the game.GW has hit a home run with this format so you can bet it will be used in some form in the new edition.I expect 40k to have a new app ready to go at the lauch of the reboot,this will keep all existing armies,up to date and functional in some form.

 

Again a non sequitur.  WHETHER they should make another ruleset is irrelevant in the face of the fact that they did.  Whether they should does not equate to the same question as whether they should charge for it.

The reality is more important.  They are making a new ruleset.  You can choose to keep playing 7th Edition as long as YOU like.  That is your choice and no one will stop you.  They've made their choice and it's done.  Now the question isn't whether they should.  It's whether they offer it to you for free, or let you repay their work.  If you don't wish to, 7th Edition is still available.

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2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

But I didn't ask them to make a new edition. They could certainly keep this edition and still make money. Changing editions is their choice, not the demands of the people. They could fix this edition, without making a new game refered to as a new edition. Doesn't have to be a free errata, they could sell an updated rulebook. The models will sell, with or without the edition change. And their business is in making models, so the edition change isn't about selling models. 

So I think we have arrived at the crux of your issue Pax. And I think it is a fair point: you are pretty happy with the current edition, and some of the people you play with are also happy with it. To you fine people I say this: please continue to have fun. I promise you GW is not going to come to your home and take the books from your shelf and burn them. They will continue to be legible for a long, long time. I know this because I still play Warhammer Fantasy, and will continue to do so.

But please don't try and speak for the entirety of the community. It never adds to the conversation. Because while neither you, nor I sent the rules team in Nottingham a letter pleading with them to create a new edition, they made one anyway. Because that is what they do. In fact that have done it six times previously.

And I for one am glad. And I don't think I am alone in this.

I have not been having a ton of fun in the current edition. Everything seems to revolve around allies, and deathstars; things I have no interest in playing. I have my Space Marines. And I am happy to have them. I don't want to combine them with riding dogs, or flying saints, or anything else. I am tired of walking into a game store and facing off against someone that has a frankenarmy that has zero lore behind it, made up of three different factions that has been copied from Spikeybits or Frontline Gaming, or some other such place of nonsense. And it is happening because the current rules allow for it.


I miss Orks. Yeah, orks. Remember them? Big green screaming death machines that scream "waaaaaaaagh!" You don't see them because crazy rules and jerks playing crazy armies have roflstomped their players into oblivion (at least all the ork players that I know). Same with Nids (all of the Tyranid players I know). And I would love a rules set that allowed for those armies to thrive. Not roflstomp, but thrive. I would love Heavy Bolters, and Power Armor to be rad again. I just like the look of a Space Marine in Power Armor armed with a Heavy Bolter.

With every fiber of my gamer heart I desire a new edition that makes factions other than Space Marines, Tau, or Eldar fun to play. I would love to see diversity in the factions again. I would love narrative play become viable and a thing. But right now 7th is not doing those things. It is a WAAC/Tournament player's wet dream. And I am just not feeling it.

So you're right Pax. You didn't want a new edition.

But I did. And I wasn't alone.  

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