fluger Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 8 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said: It also empowers hordes more than they have ever enjoyed. Kinda sorta, it just means a horde general doesn't have to be finicky with so many models. I've always spaced my models. What's been their death knell was the massive uptick in high rate of fire mid strength weapons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 And rolling run into regular movement is a great simplification. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 So everyone has the ability "hit and run" ... but from the sounds of it, if you Fall back, you are just asking to be shot at and recharged. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Yes, although I imagine Hit and Run allows you to act normally afterwards. Also, you only get shot and recharged if the unit is alive after your turn. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Yeah, that was my thought regarding hit and run. But we have all seen how powerful hit and run can be, so giving it to everyone (sorta) is a great balancing factor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophecy Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I think armies like Tau and Eldar will make use of it quite often. Using ground troops to buffer high priority targets, retreat, and then allow the rest of army to take shots is a solid idea. I would use fire warriors or guardians to keep my other stuff safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarlessllama Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 hour ago, PumpkinHead said: So everyone has the ability "hit and run" ... but from the sounds of it, if you Fall back, you are just asking to be shot at and recharged. Depends on the situation. Like was mentioned in the post, if you have a strong gun line, you can have a unit that was changed fall back from the combat and then the rest of your force can shoot into that assault unit. I like the idea because it means that Tau and Imperial Guard can keep their original play style, while still making assault armies viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 This might make combination shooting assault units better. They elude to the unit left behind being able to shoot... hordes and fully equipped units will probably benefit there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 the fall back fixes the other kick in the nuts in 40k when you have one surviving guy who stops your whole army from shooting the assaulters. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Hey with no blasts there is no worry about scattering and hitting your own models as they retreat. Hmm I wonder if my commissars can target units that fell back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Never once has a template scattering back onto my own dudes not been hilarious. Every single time it brought a smile to my face. Blowing up your guys with misplaced ordnance is just so Grimdark. I'll be sad to see that go. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 hour ago, generalripphook said: Hey with no blasts there is no worry about scattering and hitting your own models as they retreat. Hmm I wonder if my commissars can target units that fell back. Or maybe squads that tried to fall back but failed to get away... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 As someone who just got into 40k and picked Blood angels and Orks.... I'm liking the rule changes for my melee guys lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warwick Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Missing the whole ruleset, and maybe I'm missing revealed rules, so I cannot see the full picture. Isn't the fall back move a potential nail in the coffin for assault armies? Sticking in combat seemed like one of the only potential safe zones against range-focused armies. They have said they want to make assault viable though, so there might be more to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, happycamper said: As someone who just got into 40k and picked Blood angels and Orks.... I'm liking the rule changes for my melee guys lol Just a quick thought is that it seems to be pretty balanced. Chargers going first helps Orks, but everyone getting to hit and run (sorta) is kinda bad as well. We'll have to see the whole thing to make a final proclamation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I'm curious to see if cover affects who strikes first. That was always a huge pain when I played nids. That great init stat was useless because the guardsmen hid in a bush. Or how are nades going to affect assault? Still lots of ways to add depth to this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Just now, Scipiano said: Missing the whole ruleset, and maybe I'm missing revealed rules, so I cannot see the full picture. Isn't the fall back move a potential nail in the coffin for assault armies? Sticking in combat seemed like one of the only potential safe zones against range-focused armies. They have said they want to make assault viable though, so there might be more to it. I'm pretty sure that the changes in other areas will make up for it. If shooting isn't as nasty as it is in 7th, and Assault Armies are generally faster, etc., that will help a great deal. I actually always kind of hated games with my KDK against shooty Armies, because you could pretty much tell how the Game was going to end by Turn 2, and for one player or the other, there really wasn't much of anything meaningful they could do. This gives both Players more options, keeping those Games more active, and I think will end up being pretty cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Scipiano said: Missing the whole ruleset, and maybe I'm missing revealed rules, so I cannot see the full picture. Isn't the fall back move a potential nail in the coffin for assault armies? Sticking in combat seemed like one of the only potential safe zones against range-focused armies. They have said they want to make assault viable though, so there might be more to it. Depends on the situation. But, yes, that's certainly something that helps shooting-based armies. We'll have to see how that figures in to the whole tapestry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Brother Glacius said: I'm curious to see if cover affects who strikes first. That was always a huge pain when I played nids. That great init stat was useless because the guardsmen hid in a bush. Or how are nades going to affect assault? Still lots of ways to add depth to this. Seems that chargers always go first. My assumption is terrain would just slow them down like normal, so you could fail charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowbakk Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 16 hours ago, Skkipper said: Really tempted to run Orks on Saturday at PFC games to play them once in 7th edition. Kinda the same reason I'm bringing my Sisters down of the shelf. Shake things up a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Sisters of Battle for the win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarlessllama Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Scipiano said: Missing the whole ruleset, and maybe I'm missing revealed rules, so I cannot see the full picture. Isn't the fall back move a potential nail in the coffin for assault armies? Sticking in combat seemed like one of the only potential safe zones against range-focused armies. They have said they want to make assault viable though, so there might be more to it. Well, the units that fall back can only move. They can't shoot, nor "advance" which is the new term for run. So both shooting and assaulting armies are going to have to be thoughtful to how they engage the enemy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 2 hours ago, happycamper said: As someone who just got into 40k and picked Blood angels and Orks.... I'm liking the rule changes for my melee guys lol User name checks out 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warwick Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Sugarlessllama said: Well, the units that fall back can only move. They can't shoot, nor "advance" which is the new term for run. So both shooting and assaulting armies are going to have to be thoughtful to how they engage the enemy. Yeah, there could be a decent tactical interplay if there are good ways to engage key targets. I could see it being rather easy to throw cheap roadblock units to keep the assault units at bay indefinitely though. That said, shooting looks a little less scary, and I have a feeling we will see some nice bonuses to assault if they want to make it a viable option. Overall I'm excited for a shakeup and consolidation of the rules. Definitely looking forward to a game where everyone can take what they like and have the game come down to tactics and dice rather than points efficiency. 40k has been fun when I can get the list power levels to match up, but I've been on either side of some straight mow-downs, and that can rob the game of the essential 'fun' element imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, Scipiano said: I could see it being rather easy to throw cheap roadblock units to keep the assault units at bay indefinitely though. That's a tactic now, but a melee beatstick would just cut through it easily if you charge them. Also, unless multicharges are gone it shouldn't be hard to hit several at once to clear the path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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