New 40k edition

[andozane]

I seriously feel (at this point) they took all that was good from AOS, mashed it with 40K to keep the identity, and 8th is shaping up to be amazing... (Yes, I'm wearing my GW Fanboi hat)

[pretre]

If I wore hats, I'd wear a GW Fanboi hat.

[fluger]

37 minutes ago, andozane said:

I seriously feel (at this point) they took all that was good from AOS, mashed it with 40K to keep the identity, and 8th is shaping up to be amazing... (Yes, I'm wearing my GW Fanboi hat)

I'm waving a fanboi banner with rhinestones and tassles.

[JMGraham]

7 hours ago, generalripphook said:

My guard cried a little bit at that. 

This is gonna be an assault heavy edition. 

Nah, you can walk away from combats and shoot the dickens out of your foes.

[VonVilkee]

12 minutes ago, JMGraham said:

Nah, you can walk away from combats and shoot the dickens out of your foes.

Exactly! Now you can advance some stuff and not be totally bunched up! Or use infiltration to control areas and maybe spread your opponents assault elements out... i wonder how shooting into a vehicle assault will work now...

[Threejacks]

3 hours ago, pretre said:

From Facebook:
 

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Make it 100%... models cannot advance and charge. unless they have some rule giving them an exception to that.

 

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:There is a standard 1" range of weapons, but with the 3" pile in before you attack, just about every model should be able to fight.

  That second part is not really all the accurate when dealing with hordes or units of 20+ models.Getting only about 10 or so models into combat is more the norm on the first turn of contact,,this becomes much less if we are talking 32mm bases or Cav/Bike bases,,those are lucky to get 5 into striking range when that range is 1".

 

  Also some things about pile-in..yes you have to pile-in toward the closest enemy unit(judged when you start the move),,however you have the full 3" to move in that,and the only requirement is that you end the pile-in move closer to that target model then when you started the move..so wheeling around works,,going around models in front works,,even flying over models if the unit can fly works.The whole key here is that when you charge in,DONT get into base contact with your front line,,just get at least one model to  within the 1" requirement to validate the charge move,this gives lots of options for pile-in.And be sure and choose your unit activations wisely as a crafty opponent may just choose to close your 1" gap on you and take away the ability to wheel your front line models around as above if you set yourself up for a pile-in off a charge then go and choose another unit to activate first.

 

 All sorts of movement based tactics in this kind of system,,many times it may be very straight forward,other times with multicombats it can get very interesting:)

 

[fluger]

31 minutes ago, JMGraham said:

Nah, you can walk away from combats and shoot the dickens out of your foes.

I have 5 2nd ed Ogryns waiting to get off the shelf if they make them counter assault worthy!

[Munkie]

18 hours ago, fluger said:

 Note they already made caveats for certain weapons to bypass the standard rule, so it seems possible certain fast armies might get some rule.

As well, I suspect with changes to movement that DE will be charging more frequently anyway.

I charge way more often than I get charged currently, so I'm already familiar with charging and striking first. But considering DE tend to go for quantity of attacks over quality, I don't usually break them on the charge. Ongoing combats are my main concern. Without high WS for defense, and no initiative for defense, and no meaningful saves for defense it's looking like DE will be pretty bad in combat, but we'll see.

[spagunk]

16 hours ago, pretre said:

If I wore hats, I'd wear a GW Fanboi hat.

My hat would have this on it:

[pretre]

n the 41st Millennium, morale plays a vital role.

Battles can won and lost by the brave actions of a few stubborn defenders, or defeat caused by the panicked flight of key elements of an enemy force.

Morale has always been a part of Warhammer 40,000. In the past edition though, it did often seem that in a lot of games it could be largely ignored – so many units were immune to its various effects. Where it did apply though, you had to take a lot of tests – it was conceivable that a unit might have to take over half a dozen Leadership tests in a turn, which had the effect of bogging down the game.

The new Morale phase is simple, and only happens once per player turn, at the end of all your other phases. It will apply to almost every unit, and represents warriors fleeing the battlefield, dying from the psychic feedback shockwaves of their allies, or retreating with injured or fallen brethren. There will be very few units indeed that will not feel its effects.

The mechanics are simple – any units that suffered casualties in a turn must take a Morale test at the end of it. You just roll a dice, add the number of models from the unit that have been slain, and if the number is bigger than the unit’s Leadership, the unit loses the difference in additional models.

That’s it! No units falling back, no regroup tests – all that is gone.

You can see straight away, this will be pretty brutal and mean units that suffer high casualties in a turn stand to lose a lot more come the Morale phase if they roll poorly. Conversely, single-model units (like many vehicles) won’t have to test; as they are units of one, there are no other models in their squad to lose.

There are a few things that can help you out in this phase. A Chaos Dark Apostle, for example, allows all nearby units from the same Legion to use his Leadership. Or, you can use some units to make your opponent’s tests more difficult – the Hemlock Wraithfighter, as an example, decreases the Leadership of enemy units by 1 if they are within 12″ (which equates to one additional lost model on every failed test).

So, that’s morale.

We’ve run through all the phases of the game now. Tomorrow, we’ll take a look at some new background and lore in the new Warhammer 40,000, and then on Friday, we’ll take a look at Battle-forged armies.

[phyfor88]

With the new Morale it seems Orks in any numbers are done. Unless they have something special in the form of special rules or characters. Boyz can lose 10 models to shooting as they advance  then lose more in morale, then as they make contact lose even more.  As an Ork player only I am intrigued by the new edition. 6 and 7th have been abysmal and I have have played very very little. I truly hope this edition is more balanced.   

I see this will be an assualt friendly edition. But, with the moral it seems it will be good for those with armor saves.

 

 

[pretre]

We don't know what Mob Rule does yet. Hitting 3 boys over the head to pass a test sounds a lot better when you could instead lose 10 more.

[fluger]

11 minutes ago, phyfor88 said:

OK ready the Morale it seems Orks in any numbers are done. Unless they have something special in the form of special rules or characters. Boyz can lose 10 models to shooting as they advance  then lose more in morale, then as they make contact lose even more.  As an Ork player only I am intrigued by the new edition. 6 and 7th have been abysmal and I have have played very very little. I truly hope this edition is more balanced.   

 

As a fellow horde Ork player, I am a bit scared as well, but I have to imagine that Orks will get some kind of morale boost for units of large size.  Probably something like any unit of Orks above 10 strong doesn't take morale.

[deadwing34]

In AoS it's a small thing but for every 10 models in a unit you get to add one to their bravery/leadership characteristic. Plus lots of units will buff or de-buff leadership, but pretty much across the board every unit has to take leadership tests. Not too much They Shall Know No Fear in AoS.

[CaptainA]

I've heard from playtesters that assault armies will be viable, I'm sure units like Boyz and Berserkers will have rules to aide in the narrative of their bloodthirsty nature.

I'm excited that morale is once a turn instead of once each phase, it really feels like GW is taking streamlining into advice and doing many things to make the game play faster and more efficiently. How many times have we forgotten a unit took casualties and didn't take a test and then shot, then rolled for leadership to back up and failed and ran off the table? I am enjoying all these streamlines.

[phyfor88]

I understand assaulting will be viable. But by the look of it now you have to have a good armor save like a space marine. Orks get no saves, this is a world of difference.

 

[CaptainA]

2 minutes ago, phyfor88 said:

I understand assaulting will be viable. But by the look of it now you have to have a good armor save like a space marine. Orks get no saves, this is a world of difference.

 

I'd say speculating and worry too much right now is a waste of time. I'm trying to be more optimistic in this next edition as I stated in my article on FLG - https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/04/29/its-the-end-of-7th-as-we-know-it-and-i-feel-fine/

 

I mean, I"m a bit "worried" as I started a whole new Tzeentch army before the edition change and have to wait and see how it is impacted.

[spagunk]

9 minutes ago, phyfor88 said:

I understand assaulting will be viable. But by the look of it now you have to have a good armor save like a space marine. Orks get no saves, this is a world of difference.

 

8th edition orks and all models should top out at a 6+ save. Not a good save but you at least get one now. This will really only matter if they start throwing around the 8th edition D strength weapons (no saves of any kind).

[Sugarlessllama]

I really like the idea of including a Battle Shock phase into 40K. It will make morale mean something again. However, I think we should hold out for the special rules attached to individual units before worrying about the effect this is going to have on your faction.

[Brother Glacius]

The other piece of this that some might have missed is that there is now no winner or loser of combat. As long as you inflict a casualty on the unit, it will need to take a morale test, regardless of whose turn it is. That really makes the morale phase very important. No more needing to do 25% casualties....just one is required from any phase. A bad roll on a weakened unit could see them off the field.

I have to say I am a bit worried about armies without psykers. That is a whole phase that they don't get to inflict casualties in besides the fact that they now have very limited options for defense from psykers.

[PourSpelur]

1 hour ago, Brother Glacius said:

[snip]

I have to say I am a bit worried about armies without psykers. 

Looks over at my all tank Guard army, Trukk Orks and Sisters forces...

[Lord Hanaur]

Damn.  Hemlocks got a lot worse.  That is REALLY a blow.  i saw it coming though.  I knew this would be their answer to morale almost as soon as i played the rules in Age of Sigmar the few times i did it.  Its so simple and easy that it seemed inevitable.  Now the question i have based on this description is...is it truly one model or it is one wound?  One model would be BRUTAL, and I mean BRUTAL to some units.  Imagine Ogryns sucking.  now imagine this rule applied to them and making them suck EVEN WORSE as you pay for three wounds and...lose them that quickly.  yeesh.

So.

[Brother Glacius]

I think in AoS, you have to lose a model to take a test, and then you lose wounds.

[pretre]

Those armies already don't do anything in the Psychic phase. That isn't worse. And again, we don't even know much about that or the special rules yet.

 

As for Hemlocks getting worse based on one quick mention? A little soon for that.

[Sugarlessllama]

30 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Damn.  Hemlocks got a lot worse.  That is REALLY a blow.  i saw it coming though.  I knew this would be their answer to morale almost as soon as i played the rules in Age of Sigmar the few times i did it.  Its so simple and easy that it seemed inevitable.  Now the question i have based on this description is...is it truly one model or it is one wound?  One model would be BRUTAL, and I mean BRUTAL to some units.  Imagine Ogryns sucking.  now imagine this rule applied to them and making them suck EVEN WORSE as you pay for three wounds and...lose them that quickly.  yeesh.

So.

I don't think so.

So if a unit of three Ogryn lose one model they would have to take a test. So that test would be d6+1. Which means if you rolled a 6 you would end up with a 7. So if Ogryn are leadership 6, they would lose a model. If they are leadership 7+ they wouldn't lose anything. I don't know what leadership Ogryn are since I don't play guard, but if they are akin to Orks, the schmoes would have a leadership of 6, and the Sergeant would have a 7.

So in your BRUTAL scenario, the unit of Ogryn would have to lose their sergeant as a casualty, and then they have a 1 in 6 chance of losing an additional model.

So it's not that bad. I mean right now, you are rolling 2d6 against a leadership of 6 or 7 and risking them running off the board.

And we still don't know what effects rules like Stubborn have. And we don't know more things like Commissars, or other HQ units are going to have on the army.