New 40k edition

[WestRider]

The fact that lots of Heavy Weapons seem to be doing d6 Damage means that 24 Wounds will, on average, go almost as fast in 8th as 6 do in 7th. At least as long as you're not just trying to take it down with Bolter fire. And that's not taking into account that a bunch of things are going to be able to Wound T8 more easily than now, Meltas getting their 2d6 take the highest, the possibility of things like +1 to-Hit for Large Targets, or other similar possible bonuses.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I forsee Hellhound variants with the way things are rolling out. Excited to see what Warhammer Fest brings next weekend. Launch? Prerelease? Digital release? Primaris range for sure.

[happycamper]

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/05/how-pistols-will-work-in-close-combat.html?m=1

 

hmmm,  can someone say Inferno Pistols??? My Death Company are liking this more and more...

[Threejacks]

12 minutes ago, happycamper said:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/05/how-pistols-will-work-in-close-combat.html?m=1

 

hmmm,  can someone say Inferno Pistols??? My Death Company are liking this more and more...

 The pistol rules are cool and all but what really got my attention was that side note on damage and allocation at the bottom.Still not clear to me what they mean, but it seems that multidamage wounds can only damage one model with the multidamage part,,,thus hitting a 1 wnd trooper with a D6 damage attack would only kill him with no spillover to his buddies,,,but then they seem to contradict themselves with the 3 wound model example and allowing excess to spill over(this is how it is in AoS)  at this point I assume it will be the second example,,but if its the first then that is a friggen huge bonus for horde armies.

[InfestedKerrigan]

A meltagun hits a squad with its one attack. The singular hit does 2d6 take the highest wounds to a single model. Obliterating lowly infantry and taking a bite out of MCs Vehicles SH etc. The remaining wounds don't splash if you roll a 6 when hitting a single wound model.

[happycamper]

21 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

A meltagun hits a squad with its one attack. The singular hit does 2d6 take the highest wounds to a single model. Obliterating lowly infantry and taking a bite out of MCs Vehicles SH etc. The remaining wounds don't splash if you roll a 6 when hitting a single wound model.

Of course, but it's not like I'm only ever assaulting lowly infantry...

Amd mind you it's a pistol so I can still carry a chainsword and get the extra attack... 

[InfestedKerrigan]

26 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Of course, but it's not like I'm only ever assaulting lowly infantry...

Amd mind you it's a pistol so I can still carry a chainsword and get the extra attack... 

That was for 3jacks

[galahad911]

6 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

the statements were appropriately qualified in present and past tense.  and 120 T8 wounds?  Does any army you have now approach that?  Just asking...

 

Dude! T8 in the current rules cannot be harmed by str4 and str6 needs a 6+ to wound. In 8th Str5 only needs a 5+ to wound, and all of the str5+ weapons I've seen have some sort of AP on them. Hell a effing Heavy Bolter has 3 shots, only needs a 5 to wound and will take the save down to 4+. Comparing ANYTHING like this to the current rules is silly.

[Threejacks]

1 hour ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

A meltagun hits a squad with its one attack. The singular hit does 2d6 take the highest wounds to a single model. Obliterating lowly infantry and taking a bite out of MCs Vehicles SH etc. The remaining wounds don't splash if you roll a 6 when hitting a single wound model.

  That is huge for hordes then especially when swarming big guys(like IK`s for instance)..unless the monster has some sort of flamer weapon that can spread wounds(not damage so much) then they will be very limited in how many models they can kill each round out of the horde unit,Further,a horde really taxes the opponents price they paid in points for high AP/Damage dealing weapons,,it could deal 6d6+6x6 damage and still only kill one model of the defenders choice of course.

  Also,in your example above,,has it been stated yet that damage has to be dealt to the highest wound model in the unit?(assuming that its possible to have varying wound models in units) because from what Ive seen its all defender gets to choose which model takes the hit.Off the bat I can only think of Orks with a Nob as a unit with mixed wound profiles..im sure there are others though.

 

 

  Im certain there will be exceptions to all of this through unit special rules of course.

 

[fluger]

Guys, natfka is about as useless as they come for rumors.

[Lord Hanaur]

1 hour ago, galahad911 said:

 

Dude! T8 in the current rules cannot be harmed by str4 and str6 needs a 6+ to wound. In 8th Str5 only needs a 5+ to wound, and all of the str5+ weapons I've seen have some sort of AP on them. Hell a effing Heavy Bolter has 3 shots, only needs a 5 to wound and will take the save down to 4+. Comparing ANYTHING like this to the current rules is silly.

I asked you if you have an army with 120 T8 wounds with 3+ saves and a 5+ invul.  I didnt ask you how hard it was to kill.  Most will be able to safely say no.  Most.

[Munkie]

12 hours ago, fluger said:

MEq vs MEq axe and sword are identical.

Against things T6 and T7 the sword is better assuming the target has at least 4+ save. 

Meq vs Meq they're not though.

A marine with axe is strength 5. So 2/3 of his hits wound, and 2/3 are unsaved. Each hit has a 4/9 chance of wounding.

A marine with a sword wounds with 1/2 and 5/6 go unsaved. So each hit has a 5/12 chance of wounding. Very similar, but not identical.

The sword is better against T6 and 7, yes, as well as T3, but worse against T8 (which a lot of things seem to be) and T9. Also the sword is worse against T5. 

So swords are better against T3, 6, and 7; whereas axes are better against T4, 5, 8, and 9. 4, 5, and 8 are all common values.

Regardless, the main thing all this gets me excited for is completely re-evaluating what strength values to spend on, and which to pass on. The wound chart has been unchanged for so long that the recalibration process will be both intriguing and painful!

[fluger]

6 hours ago, Munkie said:

Meq vs Meq they're not though.

A marine with axe is strength 5. So 2/3 of his hits wound, and 2/3 are unsaved. Each hit has a 4/9 chance of wounding.

A marine with a sword wounds with 1/2 and 5/6 go unsaved. So each hit has a 5/12 chance of wounding. Very similar, but not identical.

In decimal, one is 44% and the other is 42%.  Close enough.

Quote

So swords are better against T3, 6, and 7; whereas axes are better against T4, 5, 8, and 9. 4, 5, and 8 are all common values

But on any of the values the axe is better against, as long as the target has at least a 4+ save, the difference is reduced.

5 with 4+:  sword 2/6; axe 5/12

8 and 9 with 4+: sword 1/6; axe 10/36

All told, I call it a wash for t4 and then a split between 6 other stats.

But the kicker that keeps the axe as better is against targets with 5+ or worse saves (which is most t3 targets, and all daemons), an dc anything with a good invul.

Ultimately though, the goal was to make swords more desirable and they now have value they didn't before.

[pretre]

10 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I asked you if you have an army with 120 T8 wounds with 3+ saves and a 5+ invul.  I didnt ask you how hard it was to kill.  Most will be able to safely say no.  Most.

If you convert a current army to the new stats, probably a lot of people do. ;)

[Lord Hanaur]

1 hour ago, pretre said:

If you convert a current army to the new stats, probably a lot of people do. ;)

Ill wait with baited breathe for it then!

[InfestedKerrigan]

New Warhammer 40,000: Stronghold Assault

Battles in the far future are seldom fought across an even battlefield.

The new Warhammer 40,000 includes rules for a variety of different game modes, which can be layered over the top of the core game rules. These make for great narrative battles, either stand-alone or as part of a campaign.

Today, we take a look at one of these: Stronghold Assault.

All across the 41st Millennium, there are fortresses, keeps, and strong points that hold vital strategic value. They inevitably become the scenes of battles, as attacking forces seek to wrestle control of these fortifications from entrenched defenders.

Warhammer 40,000 history is full of epic sieges, heroic last stands against impossible odds, and the fall of great citadels: the defence of Helsreach, the Battle of the Fang, and of course, the siege of the Emperor’s Palace come to mind. These battles can often make for some of the most enjoyable and memorable cinematic games.

In the new Warhammer 40,000, there are advanced rules to help represent these types of games. These games are quite different from a standard game in a few regards: for a start, players take on opposing roles. In a matched play game, both players will be trying to achieve the same thing, but in Stronghold Assault, the defender is trying to hold his own territory against a numerically superior attacking force, so there are different objectives for each side. This is represented both in the way the battlefield is set up and with mission-special rules. There are new Stratagems for example, and they are different for attackers and defenders:

These Stratagems will be very handy, but you will have to spend those precious Command Points to use them, which means you’ll have fewer for re-rolls, counter offensives and insane bravery.  

Stronghold Assault will also include rules for things like Demolitions, Strongpoint Defences and capturing (or destroying) buildings.

Speaking of buildings, these are a big part of Stronghold Assault too, and some, like the Fortress of Redemption, can also show up in other games of Warhammer 40,000 as part of a player’s army. These fortified structures use the same profile system as everyone else in Warhammer 40,000, though as you’d expect, they (usually) don’t move. Generally, dedicated battlefield structures will be Toughness 10, have over a dozen wounds and a 3+ save, so they take some considerable effort to completely destroy, as you might imagine!

Games like these offer a really cool alternative to a standard game of Warhammer 40,000, especially if the narrative side of the setting appeals to you.

We’ll be back tomorrow to tell you a bit about how transports work in the new Warhammer 40,000.

[Kremmet]

28 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Ill wait with baited breathe for it then!

How does one bait their breathing? Does it have to do with 120 wounds?

[InfestedKerrigan]

My girlfriends breath smells like I baited. Mine not so much. 

[WestRider]

1 hour ago, pretre said:

If you convert a current army to the new stats, probably a lot of people do. ;)

I was going to say. 10 Leman Russ would bring that as well, and a sufficient number of Predators/Vindicators probably would too. 120 T8 3+ Wounds is utterly ludicrous in 7th Ed, where almost nothing does more than one Wound, but 8th has clearly been structured around lots of things with higher T/W, but an easier to-Wound chart and lots of Weapons that do multiple Wounds. Using appropriate Weaponry, Knights are actually easier to down under the new system. For instance, it takes an average of ~16 Lascannon Hits in 8th Ed to drop one, while the average is more like 24 in 7th.

[phyfor88]

1 hour ago, pretre said:

If you convert a current army to the new stats, probably a lot of people do. ;)

This really is my main concern. I only have Orks And they have so little shooting. Either the Orks will be unreckonizable or all about a single phase,assault.

[WestRider]

So, apparently my Execution Force: Extreme Prejudice list is still going to be legal in 8th :D

[Lord Hanaur]

1 hour ago, Kremmet said:

How does one bait their breathing? Does it have to do with 120 wounds?

It is an old saying.  the idea was for a cat to eat cheese and then "trick" the mouse into walking right into its mouth looking for cheese.

The meaning being:  one EXPECTS the mouse to come right to him, neat and tidy with no difficulties in the plan at all coming up.  The extended implication being that of course it is absurd to assume your plan is going to happen as neatly and tidily as the cat foresaw.  

 

So thus:  I will wait with baited breathe to see there being "A lot of armies" with 120 T8 models in them.  Which as the cat learns...will not happen.  Very few will.

[WestRider]

Not really. The old saying is "with bated breath". "Bated" here is short for "abated", meaning "lowered" or "reduced". It means you're breathing shallowly because you're nervous or excited.

[Lord Hanaur]

2 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Not really. The old saying is "with bated breath". "Bated" here is short for "abated", meaning "lowered" or "reduced". It means you're breathing shallowly because you're nervous or excited.

Your origin source was different than mine.  I don't use Google for things this simple.  But I will say that its the same result.  Waiting for something excitedly that on't happen was the thrust.  It didnt really require much analysis but...we're gamers so...here we are.

[Kremmet]

WestRider is correct. 

1 minute ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Your origin source was different than mine.  I don't use Google for things this simple.  But I will say that its the same result.  Waiting for something excitedly that on't happen was the thrust.  It didnt really require much analysis but...we're gamers so...here we are.

I definitely understood what you were trying to say, but the thread is riddled with this kind of joke. It definitely didn't require this much analysis.

Also, since you don't search for "things this simple," you mean breath and not breathe. To breathe is the action while breath is the noun.