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New 40k edition


pretre

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2 hours ago, pretre said:

It's not pretending that they don't make mistakes. It's rehashing the same ol' crap over and over again. And it isn't even the system this thread is about. We get it, the AOS transition sucked. Stop raining on my 'here comes 8th edition' high.

I'm using it as a contrast, so I think it has relevance. They're rolling out a system that appears to be similar to AoS, but doing it in a far more responsible way, and the reception is completely different. 

AoS and their actively contentious relationship with their customers at the time lost them a lot of support. If you're trying to bring people back into the hobby, or trying to sucker someone in for the first time, I think addressing their worst moments and showing the road they've taken back is a very good way to instill some confidence. They've been there. They've come back. 

38 minutes ago, Sugarlessllama said:

And it also depends on who you ask. For me, the AoS transition wasn't too bad. There were some elements that I was "meh" about, but for the most part, I really enjoyed the changes.

And that's fine. That's my point actually. I've never played AoS and I never will, as a matter of principle. Many people won't because their attitude at the time was atrocious. Objectively speaking, it was a poor strategy. They lost many customers in the transition, and as a business that's not great. 

But they've learned their lesson and are actively working to change their image and strategy. Their concerted effort to handle this responsibly gives me far more faith in the long term health of the game than I'd have otherwise. We're watching lessons being learned in real time, and that's compelling. 

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Missions are still a big part of the new Warhammer 40,000.|

 

 

Experienced players will often tell you that it’s just as important to play the mission as to obliterate your enemy to secure victory, and that’s just as true now.

There are a lot of missions in the new Warhammer 40,000 book, which will give players hundreds of hours of variety.

The most basic mission, Only War, is flexible enough for any style of game. This mission works with armies of any size (though two that have comparable total power levels work best). This mission will be available as part of the free rules in the Warhammer 40,000 Battle Primer and, of course, in the new book itself. 

New40kMissionsOnlyWar.jpg

You can see that the mission is simple to set up, and the varying objective types still make it a variable game that will have a lot of replayability.

For you veteran players out there, you may be looking for something a bit more in depth. Fear not, for you will have plenty of options.

There are three open play missions that give a bit more variety to your games: Annihilation, Hold at All Costs and Death or Glory – each an archetypal mission fit for any collection.

Narrative play brings more options still, and the rules for these missions are a bit more in-depth. There are six of these in the book: Meat Grinder, Ambush, Patrol, Blitz, Sabotage and Rescue. Each comes with not just new mission rules, but three new Stratagems for the Attacker and three for the Defender, making these games quite distinct from a traditional game. Here are a few examples from the Sabotage mission:

New40kMissionsSabotageStrats.jpg

And of course, we have matched play. A lot of these missions will be familiar to players today. You still have your six Eternal War and six Maelstrom of War missions, but with a few tweaks since their last outing. One big change is we now have six deployment maps, rather than the three of today. Players of a certain vintage might recognise some of these from even older editions.

New40kMissionsMap.jpg

As well as some changes to the missions and maps, we also have changes to the objectives, particularly in Maelstrom of War. The objective deck has been re-done from the ground up while keeping the feel of that type of game, with its constantly changing and updated orders.

The biggest change in Maelstrom of War, though, might be this little addition: a new Stratagem that any army can use.

New40kMissionsNewOrders.jpg

How often would this have come in handy in the past when fate dealt you a poor hand?

We’re back tomorrow with a look a look at some more stats for Primaris Space Marines.

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 That mission included in free play is awesome. Simple for new players, removed points but maintained command points, simple mission that doesn't just involve killing. Great intro to missions with replay ability not particularly deep but for the included mission it is amazing. 

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I like these articles on the individual armies. It says to me "We had to start with marines because that is what sells. But for once we are going to show you all the armies that once sucked and actually admit it. We are going to give you a reason to take models off the shelf and play with them as an actual competitive choice rather than for giggles. Entire armies that once lost every game will have a reason to be more than trade fodder. We hope you enjoy considering every model and weapon in your army."

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So do pistols only shoot in the shooting phase now? So for example, take your typical slugga boy. In his turn, he moves towards an enemy. If within 12" (assuming), he shoots with the pistol in the shooting phase. Then he charges in, and we'll assume he makes it. Now he makes attacks with the choppa, and gets an extra attack with it above his normal A stat. Assuming both units stay in combat, during his opponent's combat phase, the ork will again make attacks with the choppa with an extra one. If the units again are in combat during the ork player's turn, the slugga boy can shoot his pistol during the shooting phase, and then attack with the choppa again during the combat phase.

Does that sound about right?

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New missions seem pretty good. I don't like the ancient relic version random objective. One of 4 random objectives stays on the table. Unless you've got a gentleman's agreement to put the objectives in the middle of the table, you've got a coin flip basically to see who starts the game with a huuuge advantage. There's just too many mechanics making power levels an unbalanced game type, too much pressure put on the players to try to make it balanced themselves. I don't like it.

But I'll be playing matched play anyway, and I really like the changes there. I hate hammer and anvil just because game stores or venues aren't usually set up to accommodate it. Taking that deployment from 1/3rd chance to 1/6th sounds just right. Also, it'll give TOs more deployments to choose from and hopefully most will avoid H&A entirely. 

 

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1 hour ago, WestRider said:

I'm kind of curious as to just how the Maelstrom Decks have changed. I kind of hope it will be possible to just make some edits with sharpie or something on a few cards, rather than having to buy a whole new Deck.

If games workshop sold sharpies I'd say there would be a good chance.

However.

With a system wide reboot with them making money selling 'new' stuff I'd say the chances are slim. 

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Of all the days to be stuck with a bunch of real world nonsense, it had to be today, the day da Orks drop.

First thoughts:  

Yay!  My 5th edition weird conga line formations for getting as many mobz in range of the KFF is back baby!  5++ for days!  Bonus that the Painboy gives out 6+ FnP as well  Combined with the new to wound chart, Ork infantry hordes are now a lot tougher.  Consider that a BS4 S5-7 shot has about a 25% chance of dropping an Ork in range of those two.  That means 10 scatter bikes should drop only 10 Orks per shooting round.  That was true last edition for just ONE unit if it had both the painboy and KFF in the unit, but now it works for everything in range!  

The combination of the best parts of the 7th ed book (ere we go) and the 4th ed book (mob rule based on unit size) with some new stuff (the ability to use the leadership of a nearby mob is great for those small specialist units)

The new Waagh ability is different but potentially better as you don't have to call it at the beginning of the turn and it isn't a one time use.  

There's been no confirmation on Orks keeping furious charge, but with the changes to the to wound rolls that probably won't matter.

The Big Choppa is a big winner depending on points.  S6 vs S8 is totes worse, but having a reliable 2 damage and -1 save without the -1 to hit penalty seems to really balance it out.  

No word on movement rate, but if we assume 6", then a unit of Orks has a 6"+3.5"+8.32"=17.82" threat range every turn as long as a Warboss is within range.  That's some turn 2 charge potential.  Good stuff.  

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5 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

 That mission included in free play is awesome. Simple for new players, removed points but maintained command points, simple mission that doesn't just involve killing. Great intro to missions with replay ability not particularly deep but for the included mission it is amazing. 

You could play it with points 

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Ork congas might not be a thing. There is no reason they don't use "model within x" as opposed to "unit within x". I'm really curious to see how the Mob Rule works. For instance, lets say a unit of 30 sluggas has a normal Ld of 7. When they take damage, they get to use their unit size for the Ld test. So if they take 6 casualties, then instead of trying to pass on a Ld 7, they get to pass using Ld 24. Now lets say there are 10 burna boyz near that mob. Does it really seem feasible to let the burnas also use Ld 24 if they get shot?

Basically, you could do a huge center mob for your boyz, make sure they get all the defensive buffs possible, and then stroll them around letting the smaller units stay close to ignore morale. Of course since orks aren't super resilient, maybe they will do that, knowing those burnas are going to get shot up regardless, even if they don't run away.

All I know is I have a [big bad swear word] ton of ork kits that need to be assembled. :)

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23 minutes ago, fluger said:

No word on movement rate, but if we assume 6", then a unit of Orks has a 6"+3.5"+8.32"=17.82" threat range every turn as long as a Warboss is within range.  That's some turn 2 charge potential.  Good stuff.  

I really hope that orks are not MV 6. Why reintroduce the stat if you're then going to ignore the granularity it brings?

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33 minutes ago, fluger said:

Yay!  My 5th edition weird conga line formations for getting as many mobz in range of the KFF is back baby!  5++ for days!  

I thought you didn't like spreading out shenanigans?   or was that just when someone else is doing it?  Lol.

Anywho.  Needless to say, KFF's did lose their lustre when shenanigans were disallowed and if GW thinks they are getting abused, I assume their regular "meta updates" will fix it.  At least, so we are told.

 

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22 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

Ork congas might not be a thing. There is no reason they don't use "model within x" as opposed to "unit within x". I'm really curious to see how the Mob Rule works. For instance, lets say a unit of 30 sluggas has a normal Ld of 7. When they take damage, they get to use their unit size for the Ld test. So if they take 6 casualties, then instead of trying to pass on a Ld 7, they get to pass using Ld 24. Now lets say there are 10 burna boyz near that mob. Does it really seem feasible to let the burnas also use Ld 24 if they get shot?

Basically, you could do a huge center mob for your boyz, make sure they get all the defensive buffs possible, and then stroll them around letting the smaller units stay close to ignore morale. Of course since orks aren't super resilient, maybe they will do that, knowing those burnas are going to get shot up regardless, even if they don't run away.

All I know is I have a [big bad swear word] ton of ork kits that need to be assembled. :)

The way it read to me, an Ork Unit could either use the number of Models in that Unit, or use the actual Ld printed on the Datasheet for a nearby Unit. So, for example, a Unit of 7 Ld6 Burna Boyz could either try to use the 7 from their Unit size, or the Ld8 of the nearby Warboss, but if they chose to use the Ld of the 24 Slugga Boyz on the other side, it would just be the Sluggaz Ld6, not the 24 that the Slugga Boyz themselves would be able to use. We'll see when we get the actual Datasheets.

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23 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I thought you didn't like spreading out shenanigans?   or was that just when someone else is doing it?  Lol.

I still don't like it, but it never stopped me from spreading out before.  Just because I use rules to their utmost doesn't mean I like them.  Mostly though, I miss having my kff big mek on the board. 

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1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

You could play it with points 

And amend it to rolling the random objective before placing the objective markers so one player isn't pleasantly surprised that the key to victory just happens to already be sitting in a defensible position deep in their deployment zone. 

Having one player guaranteed to win from before the game starts unless their opponent can wrest it back is just bad design. 

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