New 40k edition

[andy]

4 hours ago, scottshoemaker said:

Because I'm old and forget everything, are they going to release the rules themselves as free PDF?

Only the first hit is free. It's axiomatic.

[Lord Hanaur]

2 hours ago, fluger said:

Isn't it a bit premature to say they got worse?  They doubled in wounds and gained 4" of movement.  With combat drugs they can move 18".  They hit on 3s now instead of 4s typically in melee.  At 12" it can fire 3 shots now.  They can also advance 26" and then shoot assault weapons on a 4+.  That's a 44" blaster threat range or a 35" threat range for heat lance half range.  Turn two they should be able to charge if they want with the reroll on assault.   Heck, with 18" move and 2d6 charge they are a turn 1 assault threat.

Raiders got worse for sure.  They were far more mobile than they are now.  Big loss on that end.  More survivable is beyond dispute really, but as i did not RELY on their durability in my case (again...in my case) their functionality was served.  Now i will be forced to overpay for functionality that I (again *I*) did not really require while losing functionality I did need.  

 

So there's one perspective on it.  they are not objectively "better" because the function for which you took them may not have required added durability.

[JMGraham]

3 hours ago, pretre said:

Just one faction needs to match in the Detachment (or be unaligned) and across your entire army.

Holy [big bad swear word]. That means I'll be able to use my Nurgle Daemons and Nurgle Marines in the same army without allies, just like back in the day?This makes me happy. So. Happy.

[VonVilkee]

29 minutes ago, JMGraham said:

Holy [big bad swear word]. That means I'll be able to use my Nurgle Daemons and Nurgle Marines in the same army without allies, just like back in the day?This makes me happy. So. Happy.

Seems like character auras won't overlap but they can totally join together for some command points! I'm looking at my sister grey knight combo going yay maybe a battalion here

[pretre]

Yeah, most of the combos are restricted by keyword. There are very few auras/abilities that affect all imperial or all XXX.

[Munkie]

5 hours ago, fluger said:

Isn't it a bit premature to say they got worse?  They doubled in wounds and gained 4" of movement.  With combat drugs they can move 18".  They hit on 3s now instead of 4s typically in melee.  At 12" it can fire 3 shots now.  They can also advance 26" and then shoot assault weapons on a 4+.  That's a 44" blaster threat range or a 35" threat range for heat lance half range.  Turn two they should be able to charge if they want with the reroll on assault.   Heck, with 18" move and 2d6 charge they are a turn 1 assault threat.

It's certainly premature, but I have a strong feeling it'll bear out that way. Their strength is certainly their speed, but speed alone doesn't make a unit good, unless they have something to leverage with that speed, and they don't really. 

It costs 105 for 3 with a single blaster. A raider with dark lance is only 10 more for a 50" threat range (without having to end my turn only 18" from the enemy) and it does D6 instead of D3 wounds. The raider has higher toughness, more wounds, the same save and a 5+ invul. 

Reavers used to have high quality hammer of wrath attacks and excellent cover saves and they lost both of those advantages. Maybe 2 wounds will help a bit, but that depends entirely on how much damage 2+ weapons my opponent takes. 

They're better at getting from point A to B, but aren't good at anything once they get there. Scourges shoot better and hellions fight better. Both are only slightly slower and both are considerably cheaper. 

[WestRider]

3 hours ago, JMGraham said:

Holy [big bad swear word]. That means I'll be able to use my Nurgle Daemons and Nurgle Marines in the same army without allies, just like back in the day?This makes me happy. So. Happy.

Yeah, Chaos is one of the huge beneficiaries of this Army Building system. So awesome to be able to mix CSM and Daemons freely.

[JMGraham]

3 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

Seems like character auras won't overlap but they can totally join together for some command points! I'm looking at my sister grey knight combo going yay maybe a battalion here

Battalion? You think too small. Brigade. I'm thinking brigade.

[Threejacks]

5 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

It says Chaos chars can do it. It says if char has a mark, it may only summon that type of demon.

They do imply that,yes..I wouldnt get too into building an army based on this though as im sure many will be wondering about cross alliance summoning once players start playing the game.Ive mentioned that in AoS its allowed within the Grand Alliances,not across GA`s,though I dont know of any unit/hero that shares two GA keywords like in the case of cypher,,in this case they may not intend for an Imperial army to be able to summon demons.. I guess anything is possible.It could be one of the things that got missed.

 

 I think also that summoning lists will be scarce,much like they are in AoS,,as a general rule its almost always better to start the units on the table getting use of the models from the start.There are a few Nagash builds that work as well as a few Demon lists,but those usually only bring in a chaffing unit here and there.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I'm not starting, it's what I play, Khorne Summoning Space Marines with Aux Tempestus and 3 Imperial Knights. But if I have to start running it as Chaos, it means I only have to buy 1 index to start, and I can run my Lord of Skulls with them. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

5 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

For example, you can say "2K points, nothing above 12 Power" for example if you wanted a friendlier event.  Its quite an interesting thought.

 

I find it quite hostile that a "friendlier event" promotes MSU, while actively attacking LoW, still. It's quite an interesting thought.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I may be a bit biased in the opposite end of the spectrum as you, though, LH. ?

[WestRider]

A limit of PL12 would be pretty harsh. That even keeps out stuff like Defilers and Land Raiders.

[fluger]

2 hours ago, Munkie said:

It's certainly premature, but I have a strong feeling it'll bear out that way. Their strength is certainly their speed, but speed alone doesn't make a unit good, unless they have something to leverage with that speed, and they don't really. 

It costs 105 for 3 with a single blaster. A raider with dark lance is only 10 more for a 50" threat range (without having to end my turn only 18" from the enemy) and it does D6 instead of D3 wounds. The raider has higher toughness, more wounds, the same save and a 5+ invul. 

Reavers used to have high quality hammer of wrath attacks and excellent cover saves and they lost both of those advantages. Maybe 2 wounds will help a bit, but that depends entirely on how much damage 2+ weapons my opponent takes. 

They're better at getting from point A to B, but aren't good at anything once they get there. Scourges shoot better and hellions fight better. Both are only slightly slower and both are considerably cheaper. 

They seem to have more versatility than Hellions and are significantly more survivable against normal attacks.  They dish out less damage in melee against lighter targets, but can do mortal wounds and they have options vs really hard targets.

220

6 reavers, 2 grav talons, 2 blasters.

12 t4 wounds with 4+ save
12 s4 attacks with ap-1, 2 mortal wound attacks.
16 bs 3+ splinter shots + 2 blasters

221
13 Hellions

13 t3 wounds, 5+ save
26 S4 attacks with 2 dam each
26 splinter shots

72 MEq bolter shots to kill reavers
43 MEq bolter shots to kill Hellions

Hellions are better at clearing lightly armored living targets and reavers are better at dealing with tougher targets.

We'll see though, you could easily be right. 

[Lord Hanaur]

6 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

 

I find it quite hostile that a "friendlier event" promotes MSU, while actively attacking LoW, still. It's quite an interesting thought.

I don't really understand that comment, but okay.  MSU isn't evil and isn't implied in what I said either, really.  The Power level 12 includes some fairly expensive models.  

 

I take it you have a bone to pick with MSU armies.

[Lord Hanaur]

5 hours ago, WestRider said:

A limit of PL12 would be pretty harsh. That even keeps out stuff like Defilers and Land Raiders.

12 was just an example, Westrider.  It could be any number.  The point of the exercize is to imagine the other uses of the Power Level besides just the ability to plunk the army AS IS on the table and not worry about list hacking.

[Lyraeus]

11 hours ago, WestRider said:

A limit of PL12 would be pretty harsh. That even keeps out stuff like Defilers and Land Raiders.

Crisis Suits of more than 3, Riptides, some HQ's

[InfestedKerrigan]

5 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I don't really understand that comment, but okay.  MSU isn't evil and isn't implied in what I said either, really.  The Power level 12 includes some fairly expensive models.  

 

I take it you have a bone to pick with MSU armies.

 

I run Knights (ie, no issue with MSU). Almost everytime you mention an event, you mention a way to ban them and feel justified in it, since you seem to feel they are evil.

Power level 12 (as the example you brought up) includes banning 2 man Broadside Squads, so MSU is a direct consequence even if not your intent (Which I bellieve is banning IK).  Tell me how that doesn't favor MSU?

 

[Brother Glacius]

Maybe you two want to take the discussion of knights to a more private venue since it really has nothing to do with this thread?

[pretre]

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Harlequins

Today’s new Faction Focus looks at one of the most unusual branches of the Aeldari, the Harlequins. It’s been provided by Frankie, who as well as being one of the hard-working playtesters for the new edition, is also part of the team that puts on some of the biggest independent Warhammer Events in the United States, such as the Las Vegas Open and the SoCal Open, so has plenty of experience both on the table, and overseeing competitive Warhammer 40,000 events.

Hello everyone, Frankie here, back to talk to you about everyone’s favourite backflipping ninja jesters.

Harlequins are one of the most flavourful factions in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. They’re the Aeldari followers of Cegorach, the Laughing God. Arch-enemies of Chaos, they represent hope for the future of the Aeldari, recruiting from all factions of their race and remaining safe from the hunger of Slaanesh. They’re also defenders of the webway and the Black Library*, ensuring that the priceless information held within never falls into the wrong hands. In the last edition of Warhammer 40,0000, using a Harlequin army could be pretty tricky – they tended to be a glass hammer, hitting very hard but with no ability to take the punches back.

The Harlequin armies in the new Warhammer 40,000 are true close combat masters and will be bouncing around the field with their flip belts, which allow them to ignore terrain and other models when moving. The other half of their incredible mobility comes in Rising Crescendo, which allows them to advance and charge, or charge even after falling back. This makes them extremely mobile when combined with their Move characteristic of 8”.

Harlequin Troupes individually are the equal of other faction’s heroes in melee, but their real power comes in the synergy they have with their characters, such as the Shadowseer. This model has 5 Wounds and packs a punch, with his Miststave granting +2 Strength, -1 AP, and D3 Damage. But the real reason you take this beast is for his ability Shield from Harm, which makes your opponent subtract 1 from the wound rolls for any attacks made against friendly Harlequin infantry units. This makes those Toughness 3 models vastly more resilient and means even a Lascannon needs a 3+ to wound a basic Troupe member. Combine that with the fact your entire army has invulnerable saves thanks to their holo-suits, and you’ll find these warrior-dancers can prove surprisingly resilient.

Next up we have my personal favourite Harlequin hero, the Solitaire. This character is a blender made manifest. He moves 12” normally and has 8 Attacks. He can either swing with his Harlequin’s Caress which does 1 wound at Strength 5, AP -2, or his Harlequin’s Kiss which does D3 Damage at Strength 4, AP -1. He also has a 3+ invulnerable save, which is extremely good and pretty rare to find on such a fast-moving unit. However, the truly juicy ability he has that sets him apart from the rest is Blitz. The Blitz ability allows you to move an extra 2D6” and gain 2 Attacks once per game. With the fact your army can advance and charge, that’s a potential 30” move! Combined with the ability to leap and flip through enemy ranks, he can easily charge past screening units and mince vulnerable backfield support characters. If your opponent isn’t careful, the Solitaire will leave a trail of destruction in his wake.

Lastly let’s talk about what I feel is one of the, if not the, best transports in the game. The Starweaver moves 16”, has Toughness 5, 6 Wounds, a 4+ invulnerable save and the ever-useful Fly keyword. Fly on an open topped transport equates to greatness and is the envy of the lesser races’ transports which crawl along the ground and get bogged down. The thing that keeps this vehicle alive though is the Mirage Launchers, which make your opponent subtract 1 from any hit rolls made against this model in the shooting phase. These vehicles put your deadly Harlequins where you want them on the table and are surprisingly resilient.

Harlequins are one of the strongest armies I have played in Warhammer 40,000. They move so fast and hit like trucks in close combat while also packing a surprising close ranged sting in the shooting phase, too. I hope all of you have been practising painting diamonds, as Harlequins will be a tremendously fun army to play.

---

Thanks Frankie.

The full rules for Harlequins in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 can be found in Index: Xenos 1. If that has inspired you to give these Guardians of the Black Library a go on the tabletop, start your army off with a Troupe of Harlequins, who are, quite unsurprisingly, a Troops choice in a Harlequins army…

*The one that’s in the webway, not the guys who make books in Nottingham – Ed.

[PumpkinHead]

I seemed to have missed the "FLY" rule. Can someone point out the page number for the rule?

[pretre]

Just now, PumpkinHead said:

I seemed to have missed the "FLY" rule. Can someone point out the page number for the rule?

It doesn't work like that. Mostly, it just has a little exception on the Movement page for Shooting after falling back and moving over enemy models.

[PumpkinHead]

OK, thanks.

[Sugarlessllama]

19 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Raiders got worse for sure.  They were far more mobile than they are now.  Big loss on that end.  More survivable is beyond dispute really, but as i did not RELY on their durability in my case (again...in my case) their functionality was served.  Now i will be forced to overpay for functionality that I (again *I*) did not really require while losing functionality I did need.  

 

So there's one perspective on it.  they are not objectively "better" because the function for which you took them may not have required added durability.

 So when I say the new Land Raider rules, I was pleased. So, what is it about how you use Land Raiders that makes them now worse using the new rules?

[Brother Glacius]

4 minutes ago, Sugarlessllama said:

 So when I say the new Land Raider rules, I was pleased. So, what is it about how you use Land Raiders that makes them now worse using the new rules?

He's talking about DE raiders, not land raiders.