New 40k edition

[andozane]

9" no Deploy zone from center of table vs the old 12" is interesting too....

[Lyraeus]

30 minutes ago, Munkie said:

And amend it to rolling the random objective before placing the objective markers so one player isn't pleasantly surprised that the key to victory just happens to already be sitting in a defensible position deep in their deployment zone. 

Having one player guaranteed to win from before the game starts unless their opponent can wrest it back is just bad design. 

Yup. Looks like they aimed for ease of mission flexibility. So they let you adjust missions and can mix and match things. 

 

Means a strong system that can handle those changes 

[Lyraeus]

12 minutes ago, andozane said:

9" no Deploy zone from center of table vs the old 12" is interesting too....

Matches their Deepstrike and other such rules

[VonVilkee]

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

You could play it with points 

 But the description and special under dog rules really push the idea of power level which I love for the "intro", default, free what have you mission. I'm excited to be able to have an easy way to play new players/ young bloods, the mission is just so elegant in its simplicity, repeatability, and introduction to playing more than just kill them all. 

 

I feel I can legitimately expect every player to know this mission as it is part of the digital free rules. Love it!

 

Also totally get you can play it with points but seriously people who are playing points are a little more advanced and will more likely be playing the paid for missions. 

[Lyraeus]

4 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

 But the description and special under dog rules really push the idea of power level which I love for the "intro", default, free what have you mission. I'm excited to be able to have an easy way to play new players/ young bloods, the mission is just so elegant in its simplicity, repeatability, and introduction to playing more than just kill them all. 

 

I feel I can legitimately expect every player to know this mission as it is part of the digital free rules. Love it!

 

Also totally get you can play it with points but seriously people who are playing points are a little more advanced and will more likely be playing the paid for missions. 

So you play with Points then count up the power levels. Remember, Power Levels don't include weapon upgrades so your PL will vary enough to use that method 

[VonVilkee]

22 minutes ago, andozane said:

9" no Deploy zone from center of table vs the old 12" is interesting too....

 That is a 9" radius not diameter circle in the center... not going to do the geometry but that means roughly 18 inches apart and easily farther. I actually really liked that deployment back in the day... think it was third. 

[andozane]

Just now, VonVilkee said:

That is a 9" radius not diameter circle in the center... not going to do the geometry but that means roughly 18 inches apart and easily farther. I actually really liked that deployment back in the day... think it was third. 

See, its been too long for me, I was thinking it used to be 12" off the center...wait, it was?  So, deploying slightly closer then we used too, right?

[Lyraeus]

1 minute ago, VonVilkee said:

 That is a 9" radius not diameter circle in the center... not going to do the geometry but that means roughly 18 inches apart and easily farther. I actually really liked that deployment back in the day... think it was third. 

Everyone says Sabotage was a well enjoyed 3rd edition mission which tells you they listened 

[VonVilkee]

Just now, Lyraeus said:

So you play with Points then count up the power levels. Remember, Power Levels don't include weapon upgrades so your PL will vary enough to use that method 

 See all kinds of awesome! I have a buddy I'm looking forward to playing more and this mission feels perfect for us free so he can have it, favors power level asp he doesn't have to muck with points fun guy but not as dedicated to this sort of part of the hobby. 

[Lyraeus]

Just now, VonVilkee said:

 See all kinds of awesome! I have a buddy I'm looking forward to playing more and this mission feels perfect for us free so he can have it, favors power level asp he doesn't have to muck with points fun guy but not as dedicated to this sort of part of the hobby. 

Yup PL assumes you are going to take the best options for your force. So you don't have to much about on exactly what you are bringing. I think people making cards with the equipment on it to circle will be a thing. 

[Threejacks]

1 hour ago, WestRider said:

The way it read to me, an Ork Unit could either use the number of Models in that Unit, or use the actual Ld printed on the Datasheet for a nearby Unit. So, for example, a Unit of 7 Ld6 Burna Boyz could either try to use the 7 from their Unit size, or the Ld8 of the nearby Warboss, but if they chose to use the Ld of the 24 Slugga Boyz on the other side, it would just be the Sluggaz Ld6, not the 24 that the Slugga Boyz themselves would be able to use. We'll see when we get the actual Datasheets.

 My bet is on using the actual leadership value of a nearby unit,,as in 6 if its 6.The abilty to use unit model count for leadership is most likely only for the unit itself,,still nasty as many past builds ran 25+ model blobs,AND we dont know yet what the new max unit size is in terms of points games,,wouldnt be surprised to see 40+ size model caps on some basic troop types.

  Other units being able to grab Leadership value from a main blob would certainly be OTT for Orks .They really dont need it that way as Mob rule along with other bonuses seem to be more than enough to get across the board.

 

  The only builds that may suffer is the MSU truck lists but even then,if allowed to really spam trucks through low point units it will probably still be viable.

 

 Overall this is a huge balancing factor in this game engine,,hordes are very viable as the meta tends to gravitate toward lower model count,more elite builds mainly due to peoples budgets.A horde army puts a huge crimp in the elite builds by minimizing the effects of all those high priced,high rend models/units that are rewarded with only a few orks kiilled each turn ,,and now we can see that it will have little to no effect on low leadership.

 

 Its looking like they are going with the 5 turn game,this has worked out very well in AoS.It really makes people build more focused lists making it much more challenging to make a realiable all comers list.

 

 And NOW im mad that I sold most of my Orks

  Anyone interested in a very nice 2010  26 ft travel trailer?..sleeps 6 and has a new floor even.

   Should bring me more than enough to get some Orks to fight for me

[WestRider]

49 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

 That is a 9" radius not diameter circle in the center... not going to do the geometry but that means roughly 18 inches apart and easily farther. I actually really liked that deployment back in the day... think it was third. 

Units can actually be as close as 13" or so with a 9" radius exclusion zone like that. The older version was a 12" circle, and I caught a number of people off guard with the fact that it was actually less than 18" corner to corner, well within First Turn Charge Range for Hormies*.

*Or Fexen who got an extra 6" because a Shokk Attack Gun Mek teleported into Combat with them on the top of Turn 1 and they rolled really well on the follow-up move after eating him :D

[VonVilkee]

2 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Units can actually be as close as 13" or so with a 9" radius exclusion zone like that. The older version was a 12" circle, and I caught a number of people off guard with the fact that it was actually less than 18" corner to corner, well within First Turn Charge Range for Hormies*.

*Or Fexen who got an extra 6" because a Shokk Attack Gun Mek teleported into Combat with them on the top of Turn 1 and they rolled really well on the follow-up move after eating him :D

 Yeah while you could be very close, it allowed for a deep deployment as well with a spread out area... those units that could be close were really "pointy" and got in each other's way if not careful. So much going on with that deployment love it so much. 

[Munkie]

Yeah it's about 12 and 3/4" apart at the closest point. Not trying to nitpick, but it really matters when it comes to charge distance. A total of 12 inches need to be covered to get into combat (because if the 1" combat bubble). So unless they have a blanket no first turn charges rule, turn 1 combats will probably be relatively common.

1 hour ago, Threejacks said:

The only builds that may suffer is the MSU truck lists but even then,if allowed to really spam trucks through low point units it will probably still be viable.

I think trukks will probably be plenty good. You benefit less from mob rules, certainly, but being inside, you have to take fewer leadership tests anyway. Add to that, trukks will be more forgiving as a transport without squad wiping explosions on turn 1. Transports seem to reward aggressive play styles in this addition, so that caters to their strengths. And finally, having trukks charge in to soak overwatch and piling the boys in behind is s big boon to orks and their t-shirt saves. Plus with reinforced rams, boarding planks, and wrecking balls, they'd probably do a good bit of damage in combat too.

But as you say, the point costs will be the deciding factor.

[WestRider]

3 minutes ago, Munkie said:

Yeah it's about 12 and 3/4" apart at the closest point. Not trying to nitpick, but it really matters when it comes to charge distance. A total of 12 inches need to be covered to get into combat (because if the 1" combat bubble). So unless they have a blanket no first turn charges rule, turn 1 combats will probably be relatively common.

I was throwing in a bit of padding for the gap between the point itself and where a round base can get closest to that point without actually crossing either of the lines. I don't care enough to actually do that math, but I figured 1/4" would be a reasonable fudge factor there.

The flipside, tho, as VonVilkee noted, is that it's hard to push more than two Units forward, and if the other person chooses not to Deploy right up front, they've got almost as much room to set up a defense in depth as they would on Hammer & Anvil. You've got a ton of options for how to counter that possibility of First Turn Charges.

[Munkie]

1 minute ago, WestRider said:

I was throwing in a bit of padding for the gap between the point itself and where a round base can get closest to that point without actually crossing either of the lines. I don't care enough to actually do that math, but I figured 1/4" would be a reasonable fudge factor there.

The flipside, tho, as VonVilkee noted, is that it's hard to push more than two Units forward, and if the other person chooses not to Deploy right up front, they've got almost as much room to set up a defense in depth as they would on Hammer & Anvil. You've got a ton of options for how to counter that possibility of First Turn Charges.

Totally. I was thinking more for people who both want to get in combat. But that's what I like about that scenario, lots of deploy/counter deploy options. If they shrink into the corner to avoid the gut charge, you can instead spread out around them and box them in. Looking forward to it!

[pretre]

I caught quite a few people who didn't understand distances and geometry on that map setup. :)

[phyfor88]

4 hours ago, WestRider said:

The way it read to me, an Ork Unit could either use the number of Models in that Unit, or use the actual Ld printed on the Datasheet for a nearby Unit. So, for example, a Unit of 7 Ld6 Burna Boyz could either try to use the 7 from their Unit size, or the Ld8 of the nearby Warboss, but if they chose to use the Ld of the 24 Slugga Boyz on the other side, it would just be the Sluggaz Ld6, not the 24 that the Slugga Boyz themselves would be able to use. We'll see when we get the actual Datasheets.

I also notice that there was a note that compared battlewagon's serviceability to a land raiders. Orks will at least have game it seems. I am on the 8th edition band wagon again, it has been a bumpy ride, I am gonna hold on tight now, I hope.

[PourSpelur]

Trukk spam brought me back to 40k at the end of 5th, beginning of 6th. Throwing turbo-charged rust buckets full of psychotic hooligans at the enemy just felt...right. Unfortunately, it just never worked the way it should. I actually got kinda ok with them. I made good choices, some clever moves and started seeing how the gears meshed. Didn't matter. My raw materials were sub-par. I know that a poor worksman blames his tools but it just wasn't fun to play on hard mode.

Until now. I truly hope it's a mid tier list. Nothing would make me happier than to line the end of my deployment zone with as many death machines as I can, redline all the engines, dump the clutch and have a fair shot.

Watch out NuMarines, my Boyz iz gunna drive ovva yu's an hav a roit laff!

 

[WestRider]

2 hours ago, Munkie said:

Totally. I was thinking more for people who both want to get in combat. But that's what I like about that scenario, lots of deploy/counter deploy options. If they shrink into the corner to avoid the gut charge, you can instead spread out around them and box them in. Looking forward to it!

Yeah, and in the situation of two Assault Armies, you hopefully get the cool dance where you each try to get around the other's screens or clear them out without exposing any of your important Units and get to be the one to actually get the charge when the heavy hitters finally engage.

39 minutes ago, phyfor88 said:

I also notice that there was a note that compared battlewagon's serviceability to a land raiders. Orks will at least have game it seems. I am on the 8th edition band wagon again, it has been a bumpy ride, I am gonna hold on tight now, I hope.

That sounds about right, really. The problem with Battlewagons was always that long skinny layout meaning that only a fairly small portion of it was actually AV14. Getting rid of Facings takes that issue away entirely. I would expect the Land Raider to be a bit better in at least one of T, W, Sv, but probably not all three, and probably not by much.

[WestRider]

2 minutes ago, PourSpelur said:

Trukk spam brought me back to 40k at the end of 5th, beginning of 6th. Throwing turbo-charged rust buckets full of psychotic hooligans at the enemy just felt...right. Unfortunately, it just never worked the way it should. I actually got kinda ok with them. I made good choices, some clever moves and started seeing how the gears meshed. Didn't matter. My raw materials were sub-par. I know that a poor worksman blames his tools but it just wasn't fun to play on hard mode.

I've never liked that "poor workman blames his tools" quote. It's far too often over applied, and in a lot of situations, using the right tools can make all the difference. 40K over the last couple of Editions has definitely been one of those cases. It's been really clear to me, as someone with a bunch of different Armies. The difference between using my Nids and my KDK in 7th, for instance, is night and day. It's almost like I'm suddenly playing an entirely different Game.

[phyfor88]

16 minutes ago, PourSpelur said:

Trukk spam brought me back to 40k at the end of 5th, beginning of 6th. Throwing turbo-charged rust buckets full of psychotic hooligans at the enemy just felt...right. Unfortunately, it just never worked the way it should. I actually got kinda ok with them. I made good choices, some clever moves and started seeing how the gears meshed. Didn't matter. My raw materials were sub-par. I know that a poor worksman blames his tools but it just wasn't fun to play on hard mode.

Until now. I truly hope it's a mid tier list. Nothing would make me happier than to line the end of my deployment zone with as many death machines as I can, redline all the engines, dump the clutch and have a fair shot.

Watch out NuMarines, my Boyz iz gunna drive ovva yu's an hav a roit laff!

 

I loved 5th edition with my orks. Nobz with bouncy wounds kitted out right were amazing. The KFF was great as well. Not the most powerful but I had a chance everygame. I dont care if they are top tier just if they have a chance,

 

[Munkie]

1 hour ago, phyfor88 said:

I loved 5th edition with my orks. Nobz with bouncy wounds kitted out right were amazing. The KFF was great as well. Not the most powerful but I had a chance everygame. I dont care if they are top tier just if they have a chance,

 

Yeah 5th ed orks were the shizz. Especially in the beginning, before Blood Angels ratcheted the power creep up to 11. I was on nob bikers immediately when that book came out at the tail end of 4th. At first people said it was crazy to spend 400 points on a leadership 7 unit, but boy did they wreck stuff.

Bikers of all flavors are gonna be sweet this edition too. 6 str 5 shots a piece (assuming dakkas don't change much), and hopefully they'll get their cloud of dust back to improve their armor save. 

[SigurdBC]

Unless your Swiftclaws are WS and BS 3. That's one thing that I hope they change as SW are the only Marine faction with marines that have WS and BS 3 after the scout change back when. I know it has fluffy reasons but it makes Bloodclaw variants nothing more than backfield objective holders.  

[spagunk]

6 hours ago, Munkie said:

...before Blood Angels ratcheted the power creep up to 11...

I don't believe this was every a thing .