I made a Huge Mistake (Grey Knights)

[savion47]

So, while waiting for the new book with the rumored sisters I decided to do something stupid. If I read the rules correctly, and there is a good chance I didn't, here is the GK list I came up with:

Justicar              250
    Stave               25

GK Gunner         200
    Psilencer        150

GK Gunner          200
    Psycannon       175

Total:                  1000

 

They are assembled and ready to die quickly. Lose 1 model, and the bottle tests begin...

[WestRider]

I've got a Nid Warrior Team set up that works out about the same :D

[Steel Angel]

It matters NOT for you alien scum shall still fall before the guns of the Skitarii!

[savion47]

6 minutes ago, WestRider said:

I've got a Nid Warrior Team set up that works out about the same :D

ok, I am glad I am not the only crazy person here!

[Ish]

My ninja-clowns have a mere four models to start... I was playing around with the Grey Knights list and settled on the following:

• Justicar w/ Staff, Frag Grenades 

• Two Troopers w/ Nemesis Swords

• One Gunner w/ paired Falchions

1,000 Pts exactly and you upgrade the gunner to a Psilencer after your first game.

[savion47]

Played a learning game against Orks. It did not end well for the GK. Thing started off ok as I was able to take out 2 orks with shooting. I have learned that armor is not really all that great as so many weapons make it a hard thing to pass. Once one of my models was down it was only 2 turns before I failed a bottle test and was out.

[WestRider]

Yeah, the Save Modifiers make Armour a way less reliable defense. Even a -1 is pretty rough on Power/Scout/Carapace Armour, and a -2 is just brutal. Had my Aspiring Champion downed by a Gauss Blaster today because of that.

[savion47]

the ignore cover modifiers psychic power is awesome though

[savion47]

So, I was scared that it would be next to impossible to buy any additional GKs for my kill team. Further reading has helped remove some of those concerns. Getting only 100 pts to spend in post game and then losing any unspent points seemed insane to me. I have solved my problem, though it still kind of sucks. I have to spend 2 caches to max out this kill team. I will probably spend the points from the first match buying extra HtH weapons as the rules say a model can only carry 1 heavy weapon, but they can carry any number of other weapons. Then, after game 2 I can spend 175 on a new GK and hand him one of the weapons I already bought and spending the remaining 25 pts on Frag grenades or something. Rince and repeat for game 3. After that I am only spending money on incidental stuff and will quickly run out of the need for points until someone dies.

Now all I need is a Chaos player in the league to give me someone to hunt narratively speaking...

[AgentP]

I'm building a Tzeentch team in addition to dark eldar

[WestRider]

1 hour ago, savion47 said:

So, I was scared that it would be next to impossible to buy any additional GKs for my kill team. Further reading has helped remove some of those concerns. Getting only 100 pts to spend in post game and then losing any unspent points seemed insane to me. I have solved my problem, though it still kind of sucks. I have to spend 2 caches to max out this kill team. I will probably spend the points from the first match buying extra HtH weapons as the rules say a model can only carry 1 heavy weapon, but they can carry any number of other weapons. Then, after game 2 I can spend 175 on a new GK and hand him one of the weapons I already bought and spending the remaining 25 pts on Frag grenades or something. Rince and repeat for game 3. After that I am only spending money on incidental stuff and will quickly run out of the need for points until someone dies.

Now all I need is a Chaos player in the league to give me someone to hunt narratively speaking...

I think it will actually be even a bit more awkward than that. Their terminology is confusing, "new recruits" in that paragraph could either refer to "dudes you just recruited" or "dudes with the New Recruit Type". If it's the former, you can't switch gear for them during the same Resupply phase that you Recruit them, so you'd have to have your new dudes spend a Mission with a Warding Staff, since that's the only Weapon they can afford without going over 200 Points. And if my reading is correct, Nids are still kind of screwed, since their absolute minimum per Model other than New-Spawn is still over 200 Points. If it does just refer to the New Recruits Type, than it works just fine, but is still pretty awkward for those Teams to have to deal with.

[savion47]

55 minutes ago, WestRider said:

I think it will actually be even a bit more awkward than that. Their terminology is confusing, "new recruits" in that paragraph could either refer to "dudes you just recruited" or "dudes with the New Recruit Type". If it's the former, you can't switch gear for them during the same Resupply phase that you Recruit them, so you'd have to have your new dudes spend a Mission with a Warding Staff, since that's the only Weapon they can afford without going over 200 Points. And if my reading is correct, Nids are still kind of screwed, since their absolute minimum per Model other than New-Spawn is still over 200 Points. If it does just refer to the New Recruits Type, than it works just fine, but is still pretty awkward for those Teams to have to deal with.

Interesting catch. My desire to play Gk is dropping fast due to these strange word choices. I don't think it is clear at all what thier thier intent is with this wording.

I can still makes this work without having to build some annoying models by basically moving the leader from model to model. 

1. Leader with Staff
2. Buy desired CCWs and stick on Gunners
3. Buy GK with Staff, give gunner CCW to leader.
4. Give staff back to Leader and give his CCW to GK.
5. Do the weapon shuffle again when buying 5th GK

silly if you ask me.

[Ish]

So many problems could be avoided if Kill Teams could store unused items and points in an "armory."

[ninefinger]

On 4/22/2017 at 4:14 PM, savion47 said:

Played a learning game against Orks. It did not end well for the GK. Thing started off ok as I was able to take out 2 orks with shooting. I have learned that armor is not really all that great as so many weapons make it a hard thing to pass. Once one of my models was down it was only 2 turns before I failed a bottle test and was out.

To be fair to savion47, 

 

my big shoota did all the work at full range (36"), and managed not to run out of ammo until the 3rd turn of shooting when he just happened to down a GK.  at least 15 shots, I think....

 

The rest of the boyz just ran forward and yelled "look over here"

[savion47]

1 minute ago, Rhuntar said:

To be fair to savion47, 

 

my big shoota did all the work at full range (36"), and managed not to run out of ammo until the 3rd turn of shooting when he just happened to down a GK.  at least 15 shots, I think....

 

The rest of the boyz just ran forward and yelled "look over here"

Well, if you want to put it that way...

[WestRider]

Honestly, I feel pretty confident that the Campaign Rules were written with only the three Factions in the main book in mind, and that having to use all Points at each step was just to simplify and make one less thing that needed to be written down. Allowing a Treasury/Armoury pretty much fixes the issues for the Factions that have them, and I really can't see how it would break things for the Factions that already work fine. Talk to your League Organizer, see if you can get a House Rule.

[jollyork]

On 4/23/2017 at 5:40 PM, WestRider said:

Honestly, I feel pretty confident that the Campaign Rules were written with only the three Factions in the main book in mind, 

The additional factions were released the same day as the box set. Not sure what your confidence stems from. 

[Ish]

It wouldn't be the first time GW's left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing...

[WestRider]

22 minutes ago, jollyork said:

The additional factions were released the same day as the box set. Not sure what your confidence stems from. 

There's significantly less run-up time involved in putting a .pdf up on their own website compared to getting something ready to be four-colour printed by an outside vendor. It's entirely possible that they didn't even start on the extra Factions until after the physical book had left the Rules Design Studio. And the more I mess around with building Teams, the more it seems like a bunch of the extras really don't mesh well with the Campaign system as written, while all three of the Factions in the book do.

[savion47]

Well, I think the "new recruit" is rather clear to mean the New Recruit unit type. On multiple occasions they use the lower case to talk about them. Now, get in some more practice games tomorrow!!!

[WestRider]

That certainly is an equally valid reading. Might as well go with it, since it simplifies your League. I just tend to go with the reading that's least advantageous for me, since that way if I turn out to be wrong, it's a happy surprise instead of a disappointment :)

[savion47]

7 minutes ago, WestRider said:

That certainly is an equally valid reading. Might as well go with it, since it simplifies your League.

Well the do use something different to call them 2 paragraphs up when you are recruiting them. I fully understand that Gw has written very confusing rules in the past, I think this one is more clear than many cases of GW writing.

I am fine to play it either way. One way just means silly weapons juggling for me. I get the same result in the end.

[Zorcon]

On 4/23/2017 at 0:31 PM, WestRider said:

I think it will actually be even a bit more awkward than that. Their terminology is confusing, "new recruits" in that paragraph could either refer to "dudes you just recruited" or "dudes with the New Recruit Type". 

Since the vast majority of SW:A was copy/pasted from Necromunda, I looked through the old Necromunda rules to see if I could find clarification. The following section appears on the 3rd paragraph of pg 96 under the heading of New Recruits of the collected hardbound book:

"New fighters are recruited in the same way as the original gang. Refer to the Recruiting a Gang section. New recruits may be armed with any of the weapons described in the Gang Recruitment list, but cannot be given other equipment until they have fought at least one battle."

There is no fighter type of "New Recruit" in Necromunda (they are called Juves). So I think this is a case where the terminology was overlooked and not properly changed in SW:A. Every other reference to New Recruit in SW:A appears to be referring to the type of fighter, but in this one case, I think it is meant to refer to any newly hired fighter.

On 4/23/2017 at 10:33 AM, savion47 said:

Getting only 100 pts to spend in post game and then losing any unspent points seemed insane to me. I have solved my problem, though it still kind of sucks. I have to spend 2 caches to max out this kill team.

Rules say you can only trade in a single promethium cache.

I think your best bet with GKs is if you start the game with a Leader, 2 specialists, and 350 in equipment (only buying 1 special weapon), you can purchase a second special weapon and miscellaneous equipment after game 1.

Quote

WYSIWYG

Magnetizing an arm(s), or pin fitting (no glue) a secondary weapon to the back is an easy way to swap out a model's load-out.

[Ish]

1 hour ago, Zorcon said:

Magnetizing an arm(s), or pin fitting (no glue) a secondary weapon to the back is an easy way to swap out a model's load-out.

Or in the case of the very elite factions (Grey Knights, Harlequins, Tyranids) you could probably just swap out whole models. 

[jollyork]

8 hours ago, WestRider said:

There's significantly less run-up time involved in putting a .pdf up on their own website compared to getting something ready to be four-colour printed by an outside vendor. It's entirely possible that they didn't even start on the extra Factions until after the physical book had left the Rules Design Studio. And the more I mess around with building Teams, the more it seems like a bunch of the extras really don't mesh well with the Campaign system as written, while all three of the Factions in the book do.

While plausible, it seems more likely the new factions were designed to be conspicuously different than the rule book ones, including a few extremely elite teams designed deliberately to challenge players who enjoy struggling. It would follow the very successful Blood Bowl paradigm of self-inflicted trauma.