Jump to content

Flirting with Death


Guest

Recommended Posts

Haven't really played AoS since before the General's handbook, and didn't really like it then (very half finished, but I did like bits of it). Found myself watching a guy and his daughter play yesterday at GG, and I splurged on some AoS Grand Alliance Death models (Getting started box and the book for that alliance). They didn't have any copies of the general's handbook in stock, so first question relates to points and the army composition rules now being used. What is the common point level and how are armies made now? And is there a way to find the points without the general's handbook?. And did they ever find a way to balance the summoning rules?

Projected army would be skeleton themed. I did download the Legacy PDFs for tomb kings and vampire counts, in addition to buying a physical copy of Grand Alliance Death. Not needing advice on model selection. but I would like to know if the GW stance on letting models on square bases remain square is still allowed? I suppose it doesn't matter that much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Officially, bases do not matter. However, this is very commonly ignored and almost everyone still does their measuring from bases, etcetera. However, almost everyone also considers square bases perfectly acceptable if that's how you already built your models. Some tourneys might have specific requirements and you might run into "That Guy" on occasion who will whinge about it... But, for the most part, no one cares.

The "standard" for tourneys seems to be 2000 Points, Matched Play, using the GHB and Battletomes. As usual for war gamers, most people seem to have adopted this as the "default" for pick up games as well. However, AoS scales far better both up and down than any previous iteration of WHFB I have ever played (and I got started in '91) so you shouldn't have much trouble getting people to play you in smaller matches as you build up your collection.

Also, a new revised GHB is due out... soon.. ish... No exact date has yet been announced, but signs point to late summer. (Once the 40k Hype Train has fully cleared the station.) So if you want to wait a few months on that, you could save yourself some money... or spend it on MOAR MODELS! ?

For what it's worth, I've gotten in three games now using just the Start Collecting box (plus one model) against other players with similarly small starter armies. Every game was quite enjoyable and felt like a "full" game, something never possible with starter boxes in older WHFB editions or 40k.

(Oh, and there's an important Errata you should know about: all Death Armies suffer a –5 to hit penalty when fighting Ironjawz. Honest. Would I lie to you?)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a rule a model should be use the same base size as it came with originally,,as in the proper square rectangle or oval round.Since we have gone to base to base measurement this is the competative standard used.

   Death has some good builds for sure and just base Skellies can have some great staying power on the table.

 Look for the once a month Fri evening sessions to start up again after OFCC:)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Threejacks said:

Look for the once a month Fri evening sessions to start up again after OFCC:)

If at all possible, can you ask Guardian to include a table outside of Critical Sip as part of the AoS reservation?

Our newest Queen of the Wyldwood isn't going to be of legal drinking age for another decade. ?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Threejacks said:

 Look for the once a month Fri evening sessions to start up again after OFCC:)

 

Was talking to GG guys the other night (in no official capacity...). Apparently, the Warmahordes group has become much smaller and they've been tossing around the idea of a dedicated AoS league on Mondays (during the Warmahordes league, and in essentially in the same space).

2 hours ago, Ish said:

For what it's worth, I've gotten in three games now using just the Start Collecting box (plus one model) against other players with similarly small starter armies. Every game was quite enjoyable and felt like a "full" game, something never possible with starter boxes in older WHFB editions or 40k.

(Oh, and there's an important Errata you should know about: all Death Armies suffer a –5 to hit penalty when fighting Ironjawz. Honest. Would I lie to you?)

I did check out the errata, but seem to have missed that one. Perhaps it's in the Grand Alliance Destruction FAQ? ;) 

I've got the "Start Collecting" box for Skeletons, and that's actually my main question (and why I was asking about summoning), how is this supposed to be balanced against the other armies? I mean, just with the suggested assembly options, seems like I've got a hugely over powered army compared to many of the other box sets. 

My "start collecting" box set is Arkan the Black, 10 Skeletons, and 5 Skeleton Calvary. The Skeletons and Skeleton Calvary aren't particularly potent, but they can be summoned very easily, especially by Arkan the Black. In a battle between "Getting Started" boxes, how is summoning balanced? Obviously, I can't summon more than I have in models, but is that the only limit?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what i understand summoning models is based on you setting aside x amount of points from your list.

 

So for example if we are playing 2000 points 

You start the game with a list totaling 1600 of the 2000 points. Leaving you with 400 points to summon. This way you don't exceed points and outnumber your foe with summoning spam. But it also gives you tactical flexibility so summon what you need. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Pyre Warden said:

From what i understand summoning models is based on you setting aside x amount of points from your list.

So for example if we are playing 2000 points 

You start the game with a list totaling 1600 of the 2000 points. Leaving you with 400 points to summon. This way you don't exceed points and outnumber your foe with summoning spam. But it also gives you tactical flexibility so summon what you need. 

Hmm...So if playing between box sets, are points used? Do all the boxes include the same point cost army?

I'd have get a copy of the general's handbook to know the point value of my models....but given how many of the Death special abilities focus on summoning units, I kinda wonder how valid an undead summoning army would be. I suppose they could be really, really cheap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

 

Hey all, Since the new start collecting boxes and the generals handbook came out I thought I'd do a favour for all those who didn't get a copy today and compile the points for each box (in case you were planning on starting out.) I tried to include battalion points as well (although some aren't listed or included which is worthy of a whole other post) and tried to only i

Mods if this isn't allowed let me know and ill delete it but I didn't see anything forbidding it in the sidebar. Thanks!

Chaos Grand Alliance

Slaves to darkness: Warriors - 180 Chariot - 80 Knights - 200 Sorcerer lord - 140 Total : 600

Skaven: Plague monks - 140 Claw - 180 Furnace - 220 Total - 540

Khorne BloodBound: Slaughter priest - 100 10 blood warriors - 200 3 blood crushers - 160 Total - 460

Khorne demons: Herald blood throne - 120 (throne) + 80 (herald) 3 blood crushers - 160 10 blood letters - 100 Total - 460

Nurgle demons: Herald - 100 3 nurglings - 80 3 drones - 220 10 plague bearers - 100 Total - 500

Death Grand Alliance

Malignants: 5 hex wraith - 160 Morris engine - 180 3 spirit hosts - 120 Total - 460

Flesh Eaters: Terrorgheist - 320 10 ghouls - 100 3 crypt horrors - 140 Total - 560 Flesh eater court Battalion - 120

Skeleton horde: 5 black Knights - 120 10 skeletons - 80 Arkhan - 340 Total - 540 Legion of death battalion - 60

Order Grand Alliance

Sylvaneth: Branchwych - 100 Tree lord - 300 16 dryads - 120 / 10 Total - 520

Stormcast: Lord celestant - 100 5 liberators - 100 2 retributors - 220/5 3 prosecutors - 200/5 Total - 620? (Not sure if prosecutors and retributors are the same kit or not, would make way more sense if so)

Seraphon: Old blood on carnosaur - 320 12 warriors - 10/100 8 Knights - 5/120 Total - 540

Destruction Grand Alliance

Greenskins: Boss with banner - 140 Boss on boar - 140 Chariot - 80 5 boar boyz - 100 10 boyz - 100 Total - 560

Ironjawz: War chanter - 80 3 gore gruntas - 180 10 ard boyz - 180 Total - 440

Hope that helps! If no ones done it I'll go through and do the value saved off each box too.

 

Found this on Reddit

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Pyre Warden said:

That i do not know, i imagine someone somewhere has figured out all the points and has them listed out. 

I really need to start using search engines again.... Found it after you suggested it:

 vb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Summoning in Open Play is only limited by the player having to actually have the models available... If you can summon 3d6 Fiendish Dire Weasels, roll a sixteen, but only have twelve models, you can only put 12 on the table.

For Matched Play, you need to set aside a certain number of points. Say, 250 Points in your 1,000 Point List. Anything you can summon can be summoned using this "pool," subject to the point cap and your having to have the models. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Hmm...So if playing between box sets, are points used? Do all the boxes include the same point cost army?

No; Play between Start Collecting boxed sets is pure "Open Play" territory. 

The SC boxes mostly all offer a good value for your dollar and offer solid building blocks for your army... But they aren't balanced at all. Especially considering that a few have kits that can be built into different units.

My daughter's Sylvaneth set, for example, works out to be 600 Points if built to match to the cover of the box: Branchwych (100), sixteen Dryads (120 per 10, so 240), and a Treelord (260). But that same Treelord could have been built into a Treelord Ancient (300) or Spirit of Druthu (400).

Meanwhile, my Ironjawz box doesn't have any dual kits, just a Warchanter (80), three Gore-Gruntas (180), and ten Ardboyz (180). A mere 440 Points...

My advice? Don't get too hung up on points. Sure, you'll probably want to keep the Matched Play rules in mind as you build your collection and Points are a big part of those rules... But in the meantime, just worry about getting some games in. OFCC 2018 is a long ways away. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Ish said:

Summoning in Open Play is only limited by the player having to actually have the models available... If you can summon 3d6 Fiendish Dire Weasels, roll a sixteen, but only have twelve models, you can only put 12 on the table.

The reason I ask is because Arkcan the Black has +3 casting modifier for summoning Death units, and said Death units only require a casting value of 5...So unless snake eyes always fail on the dice (can't find this), Arkcan can't fail to summon either the Deathrattle Cavalry or footmen. Kinda thinking I might be smart to assemble him as a different version, so as to make him less potent in summoning. 

His modifier does get worse when he takes damage, but he can self heal and there's really no reason he needs to be in combat when I can summon two entirely expendable units per turn (two "different" spells per turn). And his non-summon spell is quite strong too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Arkcan the Black has +3 casting modifier for summoning Death units, and said Death units only require a casting value of 5...So unless snake eyes always fail on the dice (can't find this), Arkcan can't fail to summon either the Deathrattle Cavalry or footmen

You're correct, there's nothing special about snake eyes... It's just normally such a low number as too be useless for most Wizards. But, 1+1+3=5... So you'll be successful. However, it's also going to be pretty easy for the enemy to Unbind.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ish said:

If at all possible, can you ask Guardian to include a table outside of Critical Sip as part of the AoS reservation?

Our newest Queen of the Wyldwood isn't going to be of legal drinking age for another decade. ?

  We usually had that available as my oldest boy(16 now) was playing then,,,hopefully I can get him into coming for more games this time as well:)

  I will be looking at their schedual and going for the least populated Friday evenings.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ish said:

You're correct, there's nothing special about snake eyes... It's just normally such a low number as too be useless for most Wizards. But, 1+1+3=5... So you'll be successful. However, it's also going to be pretty easy for the enemy to Unbind.

 Yeah,,so even though its an auto pass summons on your end,,you still have to roll if it can be unbound.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Oh, that reminds me. From when I was playing AoS before, I do own several Dreadhold Buildings. Can I include those in my army? Do they cost points?

I have done some digging but cannot find any source with point values for the various Dreadhold configurations... They do have Warscrolls (and even their own Battletome!) but don't seem to be available in standard Matched Play*.

I could be wrong. But I can't find it.

* I say "standard," because the OFCC is apparently encouraging players to bring a terrain piece to the upcoming tourney.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome, found a way to get points without the handbook: https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/ 

Any chance someone can explain the Battleline unit role? What about factions?

For example, Arkhan the Black is a Skeleton, but not Deathrattle unit. Skeleton doesn't seem to be a listed faction, but then again, tomb kings is a listed faction despite no model having the tomb kings keyword. The Tomb Kings specific Skeleton Archers are a Deathrattle unit, but are not listed as part of that faction....Is it just organized badly, or is there a distinction in faction between Deathrattle skeleton archers and Deathrattle skeleton warriors?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Battleline is what you might know from 40k as "Troops" or from older WHFB editions as "Core." They're the basic rank and file 'regular dudes' that your army must contain a certain number of based on total point level of the game. (2+ @ 1k; 3+ @ 2k; etc.) 

Some units are Battleline role for everyone within their Grand Alliance, but other units are only Battleline role for specific Allegiances. For example, Skeleton Warriors and Zombies are battleline troops for any Death Grand Alliance army, but Black Knights are battleline only if the army is Deathrattle Allegiance.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Death Grand Alliance has some... quirks... at the moment. Several of their most prominent Heroes (e.g. the Mortarchs) are sequestered in an Alliance all their own (Deathlords), some Alliances completely lack Leaders (Deadwalker), and others have no Battleline (Deathmages). 

Hopefully, this gets fixed in GHB 2.0... 

But at the moment, you pretty much need to run mixed Death Grand Alliance. You can run "Single Alliance" using only Soulblight, Flesh-Eaters, Deathrattle, Nighthaunt, or Deathrattle... Or you ca go legacy and run Vampire Counts or Tomb Kings, but sourcing models can be tricky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So with the factions, Are the Deathrattle units in the Tomb Kings faction considered part of the Deathrattle faction?

If I want to count as a specific faction, do all the models need to have that keyword, or just the general, to gain access to their faction battleline units?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...