Flirting with Death

[Guest]

Regarding points, looks like Arkhan the Black is the cheapest one of the three that his sprue can make. 

[Ish]

Every Warscroll will have a keyword for one of the Grand Alliances – in your case Death - along with keywords for some of the specific "sub factions" we call Allegiances – in this case Deathrattle.

If all of the units/models/battalions in you army share a keyword, then you may elect to use that Allegiance. If the units could qualify as more than one Allegiance, you still can only pick one. In your case, an army of nothing but Deathrattle would necessarily also all have the Death keyword.

 

Units from the "Compendium" lists are all models that are no longer in production by GW or are old Special Characters whose models now are marketed as generic Heroes. For example of the first, GW no longer makes any Tomb Kings and they're all in the Compendium now. For an example of the second, Wurzog da Great Green Prophet is now just a generic savage orc shaman.

"Compendium" Warscrolls still follow the Allegiance rules. So if Tomb Kings all have the Deathrattle keyword, then they're Deathrattle.

[Ish]

6 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Regarding points, looks like Arkhan the Black is the cheapest one of the three that his sprue can make. 

I was considering Death (specifically Soulblight / Vampires) for a good while before I settled on Orcs. I thought it would be really neat to build the Mortarch as Neferata but use the bitz intended for Manfred to turn the Stormcast Hero-Dude on the Dragon-Horse from the starter set into a Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror... Find some suitable legs for Arkhan (Dark Elf?) and turn him into a hero on foot.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

Find some suitable legs for Arkhan (Dark Elf?) and turn him into a hero on foot.

Was considering this too. Though I'm thinking I can reposition his existing legs to a standing position.

[Guest]

Hmmm...okay, one more question. Does each unit need to have all models with the same weapons? For Skeleton Warriors, says "some units" are equipped with spears, while other units have swords. Can I include a mix of spears and swords, or does every model in a unit need the same weapons?

[WestRider]

If it says "some Units", the Unit has to all have the same gear. I believe there are some that say "some Models", and which can mix.

[Ish]

@WestRider: Ironjawz Ardboyz are one of those units that can have mixed weapons. 

Units of Skeleton Warriors have to have everyone within it wielding either an Ancient Blade or an Ancient Spear, you cannot mix and match. The idea behind it is that there's no need to have two (or more) Warscrolls for units that would otherwise be identical.

Having said that, I think you'll find that no one bats an eye if the Champion, Standard Bearer, and Musician in a unit of Skeleton Spearmen are carrying swords in lieu of spears. It works better aesthetically and helps mark out those models as special. Mechanically, they'd still have spears.  

[Guest]

Hmm...well not a huge problem either way. I started building my skeleton warriors with spears, so I guess I'll continue with spears for this batch. The GW kit is kinda funny, as the spears are all one-handed and unable to be positioned bracing for a charge. Still, much better fit up than the old plastic skeleton kit (Or maybe I'm just better at this now...). 

And I managed to snag a pair of OOP metal TK catapults, so my undead won't be entirely screwed at range. Though the Catapults bring up another faction question: The catapult itself lacks the Deathrattle or Skeleton keyword, but the crew have both. Are they unable to be included in an entirely Deathrattle or entirely Skeleton army due to this?

Oh, question, if a unit has an ability that allows them to move as if it were the movement phase, but in a different phase, are they allowed to move in that other phase after being summoning?

The Getting Started formation allows the skeletons to move in the hero phase "as if it were the movement phase." Kinda unclear how this relates to summons.

[Threejacks]

3 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Hmm...well not a huge problem either way. I started building my skeleton warriors with spears, so I guess I'll continue with spears for this batch. The GW kit is kinda funny, as the spears are all one-handed and unable to be positioned bracing for a charge. Still, much better fit up than the old plastic skeleton kit (Or maybe I'm just better at this now...). 

And I managed to snag a pair of OOP metal TK catapults, so my undead won't be entirely screwed at range. Though the Catapults bring up another faction question: The catapult itself lacks the Deathrattle or Skeleton keyword, but the crew have both. Are they unable to be included in an entirely Deathrattle or entirely Skeleton army due to this?

Oh, question, if a unit has an ability that allows them to move as if it were the movement phase, but in a different phase, are they allowed to move in that other phase after being summoning?

The Getting Started formation allows the skeletons to move in the hero phase "as if it were the movement phase." Kinda unclear how this relates to summons.

 Read the summoning spell,,most say that they are placed within a certain distance from the caster and no closer than 9 to an enemy model,,then usually states that "this counts as their move for this turn" so they wouldnt be eligible to move using the ability,,though like I say there may be exceptions on certain warscrolls.

 

[Ish]

I'm not 100% certain, but I cannot imagine anyone would object to counting the Screaming Skull Catapult as being part of Deathrattle allegiance. I took a quick look at a few other war machines (Empire Cannon, Grot Rock Lobba, and Ironweld Cannon) and none of the machines had an allegiance keyword, only the crew.

As for spears: I have an army of samurai and ashigaru minitures that I used as Empire in WHFB 8th. Amongst the many units was a Horde of one hundred ashigaru with pikes... The first three ranks were modeled in proper "brace for charge" stances. This looked great but made the annoying as hell to actually play with. Enemy models couldn't be placed within 2" of them... and transporting them was a nightmare.

[Ish]

Just found this: 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Threejacks said:

 Read the summoning spell,,most say that they are placed within a certain distance from the caster and no closer than 9 to an enemy model,,then usually states that "this counts as their move for this turn" so they wouldnt be eligible to move using the ability,,though like I say there may be exceptions on certain warscrolls.

 

The wording is "The unit is added to your army, but cannot move in the following movement phase." So, as written, I've been assuming that you can act normally in the other phases (including charging).

Regarding the ability, the wording is the confusion, as it allows me to move the unit in the hero phase just as moving in the movement phase. So on the one hand, I can't move in the movement phase, but on the other hand, it isn't the movement phase. 

Though I was thinking the issue may be in how I'm reading the summon rules. For my formation, can I summon the members (like reserves in 40k) or do all the units in a formation need start on the table? If the summons are creating new units, unrelated to the formation, then the question is moot. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ish said:

I'm not 100% certain, but I cannot imagine anyone would object to counting the Screaming Skull Catapult as being part of Deathrattle allegiance. I took a quick look at a few other war machines (Empire Cannon, Grot Rock Lobba, and Ironweld Cannon) and none of the machines had an allegiance keyword, only the crew.

As for spears: I have an army of samurai and ashigaru minitures that I used as Empire in WHFB 8th. Amongst the many units was a Horde of one hundred ashigaru with pikes... The first three ranks were modeled in proper "brace for charge" stances. This looked great but made the annoying as hell to actually play with. Enemy models couldn't be placed within 2" of them... and transporting them was a nightmare.

I figure that as long as all the models with spears are pointing the same direction, that should cover my issues with transportation. I like that I don't need to be concerned with them "ranking up" as with WHFB, though I do miss unit fillers. 

Regarding proximity, I think the weapons are counted as part of the model, so I don't think there should be issues with opponents not being able to place the models close. Could be wrong here. 

[Ish]

I haven't used my old samurai army in AoS, yet. They are all in storage back in Detroit... But not having to keep them in ranks and files will definitely help with positioning. 

I prefer to play base-to-base, despite what the rules might say. 

[Ish]

40 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

The wording is "The unit is added to your army, but cannot move in the following movement phase." So, as written, I've been assuming that you can act normally in the other phases (including charging).

If that's the rule, then that's the rule. You will be able to act normally in every other phase... You should double check the wording of the rule letting you move in the Hero Phase, to make certain it isn't worded some way like "at the start of your Hero Phase" or something that would mean the summoned unit is ineligible.

[Threejacks]

 "The following movement phase" can also be a movement phase that takes place in your hero phase due to a special ability that allows a unit to move "as if it were their movement phase"

  Depends on what the wording of the abilty that is allowing the movement to take place in the Hero phase.

 

  For formations,the units within it must either start on the board or be set up in another "status" that is allowed within the formation rules,,such as "in the clouds" for some units or "circling above" in the case of Seraphon Ripperdactyls for example.

  Summoned units dont exists in any army until they are summoned.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Threejacks said:

 

  For formations,the units within it must either start on the board or be set up in another "status" that is allowed within the formation rules,,such as "in the clouds" for some units or "circling above" in the case of Seraphon Ripperdactyls for example.

  Summoned units dont exists in any army until they are summoned.

How do they not exist prior to being summoned when I'm pay points for the units that are summoned? If I'm pre-paying points for the units that I summon, why can't the summons be part of the formation?

[WestRider]

38 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

How do they not exist prior to being summoned when I'm pay points for the units that are summoned? If I'm pre-paying points for the units that I summon, why can't the summons be part of the formation?

Because when you set aside the Reserves Points, they're not actually tied to any specific Unit. You don't pre-pay for a Summoned Unit of Skeletons, you pre-pay 200 (or however many) Points, that can theoretically be used to Summon anything, even if, practically, all you can actually Summon is the Skeletons.

Most of the Armies that I've seen use Summoning successfully seem to use it as a sort of sideboard, leaving enough Points that there are a couple of different options they can bring in, depending on who they're facing.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Because when you set aside the Reserves Points, they're not actually tied to any specific Unit. You don't pre-pay for a Summoned Unit of Skeletons, you pre-pay 200 (or however many) Points, that can theoretically be used to Summon anything, even if, practically, all you can actually Summon is the Skeletons.

Most of the Armies that I've seen use Summoning successfully seem to use it as a sort of sideboard, leaving enough Points that there are a couple of different options they can bring in, depending on who they're facing.

Wait...so can I summon units that require spells that I don't have because those units are not part of my army? For example, if my army is Skeleton Warriors and Arkhan, can I summon Skeleton Archers?

Also, many of the Summons allow me to summon "up to" a minimum squad size of the unit. Do I pay the points for the entire unit if I only summon some of these models? For example, the Morghast Harbingers are bought in units of 2 for 240pts. When summoning, I am able to set up a unit of "Up to 2 Morghast Harbingers." If I choose to only summon a single model, do I remove the full 240pts from my "reserve points," or do I just remove 120pts since I only summoned half the models included in that 240pt unit?

[Ish]

Yes to the first question. All those Death units that have a summoning spell on them are potential summonable by most of your wizards. You do not have to specify what will be summoned until you try to cast the spell.

No to the second question. The points are "spent" as if you were buying the models for your army list. Per the GHB, units are bought in increments of their minimum model count up to their maximum. So if a unit has a minimum five, maximum twenty, you buy it in 5/10/15/20 blocks. Units that are "under strength" still count as the next block, so in my example 8 men would cost the same as ten.

(GHB 2 might go to a "per model" point pricing if the rumors are true.)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

Yes to the first question. All those Death units that have a summoning spell on them are potential summonable by most of your wizards. You do not have to specify what will be summoned until you try to cast the spell.

Hmm so if my army on the table lacks skeleton warriors, and I decide I need some, then any Death Wizard in my army can cast that spell, despite there being no skeleton warriors in my army to give them that spell?

Prior to the General's Handbook, you had to have the unit in your army at the start, in order to summon it, or at least that was how it was explained to me. 

[Ish]

The Skeleton Warriors Warscroll says "Death Wizards know the Raise Skeletons spell, in addition to any other spells they know."

I don't see any other qualifiers or conditionals in that sentence. Does the model have the Death Wizard keywords? If yes, it knows the spell. If no, it does not.

[WestRider]

I'm not sure if it made it into the FAQ or not, but I know I've seen pretty reliable sources (e.g. stuff from the AoS GT that GW themselves ran at the LVO) that say that those spells aren't dependent on you having that Warscroll in your Army. They are all simply available to the relevant Wizards.

It's just easier to list it once, on the Summoned Unit's Warscroll, than to have every Death Wizard (or whichever. Applies to Chaos and Lizardmen as well) Warscroll go to two pages with a list of all the things it can Summon.

[Ish]

Plus, if you don't have any interest in owning the models, you'll probably never bother looking at their Warscroll. Saves time.

[Guest]

That is easier, thanks.