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5 things you learned so far 40k 8th


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3 minutes ago, Yarbicus said:

But you don't pay for it when you equip it. You pay for it after deciding in equipment. 

Please quit blaming "poor English." The word choice is perfectly clear.

And so is the tense. It always refers to what they ARE equipped with. It's present tense. What they had in the past has no bearing on what they have currently. You're paying for what they have in the present tense.

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I tracked down the sample roster on BOLS and it's Drukhari (Dark Eldar). Unfortunately, 3plusplus is down and I can't find the complete index online.  Anyway, its not much help because all the stock gear on the units they chose were zero points to begin with.  The Raider is the only one I couldn't find rules for.  Does anyone know if it comes with a Dark Lance stock?

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4 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I'm surprised this is even coming up.  It says clearly that X comes with Y and Z.  Comes that way.  And so you pay accordingly.  

 

It says you may then Replace Y with a Q for the points shown.  So you do that.

This isn't complicated.  All they've done is disassembled the parts so that the base model and how it comes came change in price in a modular way.

 

umm. no. You only pay for what the unit has after it's put together. You take the unit, give it the wargear, then pay for what wargear it has. A model that comes with a weapon, like a boltgun, that can then replace it with another weapon. You only pay when the unit is finally built. So it doesn't have a boltgun, so you don't pay for it.

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1 hour ago, Lord Hanaur said:

You paid for it TO equip it.  So that chain is still there.

Again, its bad english if you're right.

 

 

No.. you don't pay until after the unit is built. You build the unit, THEN you pay for the wargear it has. You don't pay, then unpay, then build, then repay, then calculate the final value. You only calculate the final value of units and current wargear after the list is complete. This is because until the match is started the list is still incomplete. Your list isn't completely built until the person you are playing reviews it and you compare list values against the agreed list points. You don't build a list and pay for it in a vacuum. Someone else has to review your list before you actually pay the list points because you are comparing your list points to theirs if you are playing them. This is how people can add/subtract stuff from their list at the beginning of the match. If a tournament sets a point limit, the list is still not complete until a tournament person reviews and approves the list. Which is after you build the list and allocate the points for the wargear, which happens after you build the list. So you only pay for the wargear the unit/list ACTUALLY has after it's built, not what it doesn't have. or what it had before it was built.

"Simply add up the points values of all the models and weapons in your army, and make sure the total does not exceed the agreed limit for the game" pg 214 BRB

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4 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

took me one second to point out that the cost INCLUDEs your equipment which you are then replacing at a cost.

But it doesn't say that. It says "you add up the points values of all the models and weapons in your army". 

If something isn't in your army, it isn't there. you don't add it's point value because it isn't in your army.

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1 hour ago, Yarbicus said:

A+

This is going directly on my fridge. 

Then I'm gonna call my mom and tell her how stupid she is for ever doubting me. 

Then I'm gonna be too cool for everyone and I'll lose all my friends. 

Then I'll get heavy into coke and when people confront me about it, I'll turn it around on them because they don't know the pressure and responsibility of getting an A+ from Yarb.

And then I'll die in the streets, after briefly living in the box that refrigerator came in. I'll breathe my last, clutching that A+ to my chest.

So I guess what I'm really trying to say is thank you. Things are looking better from here on out!

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Well, thanks to all of the strife that this thread has produced lately a new God of Chaos has been born! Revel in its glory and dark might! What shall we call it I wonder? Here are some things that I noticed about the new Chaos Daemons while pouring over the Chaos Index for a few hours last night:

  • No more Warp Storm table. Takes away a bit of the fluff of playing Chaos, but on the other hand you won't have your supped up Daemon Prince killing himself when you roll a 2 or 3 anymore. 
  • No more Rewards, once again reducing the randomness of the faction during setup.
  • Summoning is radically different. Any Chaos Character can do it (Hereticus Astartes or Daemon) and they can only summon daemons that are aligned with their respective God. For example, Kharn can't summon Plaguebearers, but he can summon Bloodletters or, even more impressive, a Bloodthirster. Roll 3D6 and compare that total to the power level of the unit you want to summon, adding in additional power if you want more daemons in the squad. Any doubles and they take a mortal wound, and any triples and they take D3 instead. Also, you have to set aside points in your army for these summoned units (these points are called Reinforcement Points). No more free units for Chaos =(
  • Seekers are so much better now. They have two wounds a piece (up from 1) and they can advance and charge. I need to get me some more of these lovely ladies.
  • I'm still on the fence about Soul Grinders. I've needed/wanted one for my Chaos Army for forever, but now with only 3 attacks and those attacks hitting on 4+ they don't seem great in combat even though they'll be swinging their Iron Claw at a whopping 16 Strength! Their shooting isn't that great since they come with Phlegm Bombardment which is Heavy D3, but if they move they hit on 5+. Time will tell if this unit is as good as it used to be or worse.

It'll be fun making lists for this faction (Summoning based and not) and we'll see how they fare on the tabletop. Rot, Glorious Rot will soon befall the enemies of the Dark Ones.  

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1 hour ago, SigurdBC said:
  • No more Warp Storm table. Takes away a bit of the fluff of playing Chaos, but on the other hand you won't have your supped up Daemon Prince killing himself when you roll a 2 or 3 anymore. 

Good [big bad swear word]ing riddance.

That's my example 1A of how tedious 7th edition was. A phase so complicated that no demon player could just memorize it, and so wonky that no opponent would want to just take your word for it. It took forever and nothing of consequence happened 99% of the time. I'd recommend skipping it entirely, except that 1% of the time something absolutely, unskippably MASSIVE would happen. 

On the other hand, that became my "I'm gonna go get a beer, tell me what happened" phase, so I'll have to find a new slot for that. Shouldn't be a problem though.

 

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30 minutes ago, Munkie said:

On the other hand, that became my "I'm gonna go get a beer, tell me what happened" phase, so I'll have to find a new slot for that.

Wait until your next match against an Imperial Guard player, as (s)he starts to figure out who is in Rapid Fire "double-tap" range and who isn't when you declare a charge into the forty-man Conscript block. 

You should have time to grab a beer... and a burger... while they count out all 136 dice they'll need to roll. 

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A-ha! The silver bullet to put that dead horse argument out of its misery. My phone only takes pictures too large to upload apparently, and I have no computer to do technomancy spells of re-sizing.

However, if you open your Xenos: 1 books to page 109, the Windrider entry on the example roster settles it. 

6 Jetbikes for 120, 2 TL shuriken catapults for 20, 2 scatter lasers for 30, 2 shuriken cannons for 24.

120 points of models+74 points of wargear=194 for the unit. If the H method were correct, the unit would be paying for an additional 40 points for the replaced twin-shuriken catapults, and the unit would cost 234.

Granted, an example roster isn't gospel truth, but it is an example of someone GW employed understanding it the same way most appear to.

Then GW put it in their book. 

As a cool aside, the example roster is filled out by Alex Smith, and I'm going to choose to believe that's Alex Smith the artist. He's my very favorite GW artist. His Emperor and Horus facing off over Slain-guinius's corpse and shattered sword is a classic (page 42 of 8th Ed BRB). His clean lines, incredible detail, and light effects make him the anti-John Blanche the GW art department desperately needs. 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I've learned 8th list building is a bigger pain in the ass than making 3rd-5th Army Lists. 

 

Plenty of people here and on the other corners of the Internets have been making similar complaints. So, obviously, this is a real issue for many people... But, well, I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I "came up" back in the olden days having to make AD&D1e/2e and Shadowrun characters or WHFB army lists by hand, using pen and paper like a goddamn caveman, but creating army lists for Eighth Edition isn't that challenging. 

Let's say I'm making a unit of Deathwing Terminators. I jot down what everyone in the squad will be:

• Sergeant w/ Powersword and Storm Bolter.

• Terminator w/ Powerfist and Assault Cannon.

• Terminator w/ Chainfist and Storm Bolter.

• (2x) Terminator w/ Powerfist and Storm Bolter.

Then I flip to the chart with the points for each unit, jot that number (T) down next to their name. Then flip to the mêlée weapon chart and jot down that number (M). Then look at the chart with the guns and jot it down (G). So my notepad now has everyone looking like this (but with real numbers in the parenthesis):

• Sergeant (T) w/ Powersword (M) and Storm Bolter (G). (Subtotal)

Add up all the subtotals. Boom. I have a squad built and pointed. Takes maybe 5 minutes and will no doubt be even faster once I have the numbers for the most commonly used 'gear committed to memory.

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My 12 year old son got in his first 2 games of 40k with me today!

I learned that Power Levels are actually a really good benchmark if you want to get a quick casual game in, and don't care to flip back and forth between sections in order to maximize every point in your army. 

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5 minutes ago, JMGraham said:

 

My 12 year old son got in his first 2 games of 40k with me today!

 

Let me know when he starts with AoS. My eleven year old daughter has been grinding me into the mud with her Sylvaneth and could use a stronger opponent. ?

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14 minutes ago, JMGraham said:

My 12 year old son got in his first 2 games of 40k with me today!

I learned that Power Levels are actually a really good benchmark if you want to get a quick casual game in, and don't care to flip back and forth between sections in order to maximize every point in your army. 

Yeah, this is the first time my 15 year old has expressed interest. Yes, he will be starting with Deathguard...

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21 minutes ago, Ish said:

Plenty of people here and on the other corners of the Internets have been making similar complaints. So, obviously, this is a real issue for many people... But, well, I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I "came up" back in the olden days having to make AD&D1e/2e and Shadowrun characters or WHFB army lists by hand, using pen and paper like a goddamn caveman, but creating army lists for Eighth Edition isn't that challenging. 

Let's say I'm making a unit of Deathwing Terminators. I jot down what everyone in the squad will be:

• Sergeant w/ Powersword and Storm Bolter.

• Terminator w/ Powerfist and Assault Cannon.

• Terminator w/ Chainfist and Storm Bolter.

• (2x) Terminator w/ Powerfist and Storm Bolter.

Then I flip to the chart with the points for each unit, jot that number (T) down next to their name. Then flip to the mêlée weapon chart and jot down that number (M). Then look at the chart with the guns and jot it down (G). So my notepad now has everyone looking like this (but with real numbers in the parenthesis):

• Sergeant (T) w/ Powersword (M) and Storm Bolter (G). (Subtotal)

Add up all the subtotals. Boom. I have a squad built and pointed. Takes maybe 5 minutes and will no doubt be even faster once I have the numbers for the most commonly used 'gear committed to memory.

I liked this post but...

some of us build lists in reverse. We come up with an army list and then build it. It's a pain to do that with the new format.

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1 minute ago, pretre said:

some of us build lists in reverse. We come up with an army list and then build it. It's a pain to do that with the new format.

I literally have no way of even conceptualizing how that would work. It sounds as alien to me as if you were trying to tell me what the color blue tastes like.

Doesn't building a list necessarily have to involve figuring out what units you want to have?

 

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