CaptainA Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, peter.cosgrove said: Not even partially. The entire unit has to be completely within. Vehicles and large base non infantry models the entire hull/base has to be inside the terrain. GW FAQ'd it bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, Sugarlessllama said: According to the rules, objectives are placed first, and then sides are picked. Also, why are players moving terrain? Terrain should be placed by the TO and remain stationary. The terrain is always placed by both players before each match. And it keeps moving until both players agree on placement/definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, peter.cosgrove said: The terrain is always placed by both players before each match. And it keeps moving until both players agree on placement/definition. That's not how it works at a tournament. How many events have you played at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, CaptainA said: GW FAQ'd it bud. oh good. Because that was part of my entire point. What's their definition of "partially"? Are we talking the old school 50% of base or the newer "Toe in" thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, CaptainA said: That's not how it works at a tournament. How many events have you played at? How about lowering the epeen and go with, every tournament I have been to, during the terrain set up/discussion part of the match. Mainly because I don't like bare tables it's a situation that has come up before. Commented on even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, peter.cosgrove said: How about lowering the epeen and go with, every tournament I have been to, during the terrain set up/discussion part of the match. Mainly because I don't like bare tables it's a situation that has come up before. Commented on even. Terrain discussion yes, terrain setup, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Where is the FAQ at? because it's not on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I have only ever played in tournaments with preset terrain. I think that should/will be pretty standard in 8th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, CaptainA said: Terrain discussion yes, terrain setup, no. ya.. every time I've gone to play I have set/reset the terrain. And the only times it's gone to a floor judge for one of my games the other player was stacking the table one sided/cornered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarlessllama Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 This is the weirdest conversation I have had about the new edition. I really get the feeling the OP is reaching to find negative things to say about the new edition. And it hasn't even been out a week yet. I don't know what the tournament scene is going to look like for you dude. However, I am pretty sure that there will be tournaments. And at these tournaments there will be terrain, and people with cheezy armies that going to going to mini/max like crazy. Just like it ever was. So don't worry. You got this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Not finding a FAQ. They also didn't update the free download rules which you would think they would update if they FAQ'd something as important as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said: Not even partially. The entire unit has to be completely within. Vehicles and large base non infantry models the entire hull/base has to be inside the terrain. Actually the FAQ does say a model can be partially within but the entire unit must. https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary-ENG.pdf I do see what is meant about hills and such not giving cover even when they 99% obscure you. I think we will need to have a discussion about that particular absurdity before the July 1 tournament at Olympic Cards and Comics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, Sugarlessllama said: This is the weirdest conversation I have had about the new edition. I really get the feeling the OP is reaching to find negative things to say about the new edition. And it hasn't even been out a week yet. I don't know what the tournament scene is going to look like for you dude. However, I am pretty sure that there will be tournaments. And at these tournaments there will be terrain, and people with cheezy armies that going to going to mini/max like crazy. Just like it ever was. So don't worry. You got this. Do you come to the Ordo Fanaticus Terrain Days? Where we sit around and fix/make terrain? My point is that the vast majority of our terrain is pointless. It doesn't do anything anymore. All the hills, columns, huts, boxes, etc etc. are pretty much just eye candy now. They don't do anything. Either there has to be a long discussion about how certain things are set up in terrain formations or everything needs to be static based or whatever so it does something besides just sit there and look pretty on the table. And to give non infantry a cover save have to do something like add more visually blocking stuff, or columns and height to the stuff we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said: ya.. every time I've gone to play I have set/reset the terrain. And the only times it's gone to a floor judge for one of my games the other player was stacking the table one sided/cornered. So in the interest of time saving, and more importantly, argument preventing, why not go with preset terrain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 24 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said: oh good. Because that was part of my entire point. What's their definition of "partially"? Are we talking the old school 50% of base or the newer "Toe in" thing? I think that partially is just toe in like before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 THIS.. [Q: When determining whether a model benefits from cover, does the model’s entire unit need to be fully on or within terrain, or just the model making a particular saving throw? A: All of the models in a unit need to be at least partially on or within terrain if any of the models are to receive the +1 bonus to their saving throw. Note, however, that it is possible for a unit to gain the benefit of cover as it suffers casualties during the Shooting phase by removing those models that are not on, or within terrain. As soon as the last model that was not on or within terrain is slain, the rest of the unit immediately starts to receive the benefit of cover.] is COMPLETELY different than this... [If a unit is entirely on or within any terrain feature, add 1 to its models’ saving throws against shooting attacks to represent the cover received from the terrain (invulnerable saves are unaffected). Units gain no benefit from cover in the Fight phase] They didn't define "partially" so we are back to the "Toe in" cover of 7th edition. Good. You put your tank tread in, you take your tank tread out, you put your tank tread in, and you shake it all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 No, you guys are missing it. I have 5 guys totally in cover and I have 5 guys totally out of cover. Do any of my models get a cover save? No. I have 5 guys totally in cover and I have 5 guys partially in cover. Do any of my models get a cover save? Yes, just the ones totally in cover. The ones who are toe in do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, pretre said: No, you guys are missing it. I have 5 guys totally in cover and I have 5 guys totally out of cover. Do any of my models get a cover save? No. I have 5 guys totally in cover and I have 5 guys partially in cover. Do any of my models get a cover save? Yes, just the ones totally in cover. The ones who are toe in do not. Please don't take away my happy place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Ok fine. so, still, when you are talking about a single model non-infantry unit like a Land Raider, the Land Raider still has to be completely within, not partially, but completely within a terrain AND at least 50% obscured from the LOS of the shooter in order to gain a cover save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, pretre said: No, you guys are missing it. I have 5 guys totally in cover and I have 5 guys totally out of cover. Do any of my models get a cover save? No. I have 5 guys totally in cover and I have 5 guys partially in cover. Do any of my models get a cover save? Yes, just the ones totally in cover. The ones who are toe in do not. wait a minute.. you make your saves before wound allocation, and you can pull from anywhere. You would have to declare the 5 cover save bonuses and roll.. wait. Holdon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 So you have a Crusader squad with 5 Initiates and 5 Neophytes out in the open. Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said: Ok fine. so, still, when you are talking about a single model non-infantry unit like a Land Raider, the Land Raider still has to be completely within, not partially, but completely within a terrain AND at least 50% obscured from the LOS of the shooter in order to gain a cover save. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Resolve attacks. 1. Hit Roll 2. Wound Roll Ok, first thing is, it doesn't go into wait... It does. Ok. so the rules are written so each attack is resolved one at a time. By having units with different toughness/saves you would have to designate a target. Who designates the target since you can pull wou.. wait. This means you can force someone to make an attack against your higher toughness/save model (because "the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound" but remove a wound/model from a lower toughness/save model. Nope. Because "if the result is greater than or equal to the save characteristic of the model the wound was allocated to" ok. so back to normal then, nothing to see here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 So, in the example of 5 models in and 5 models partially in. The attacks would have to go individually and the "player commanding" would then be required to remove the specific model the wound was allocated to. So if you claim a cover save for 1 of the 5 in cover you would have to remove THAT model. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said: So, in the example of 5 models in and 5 models partially in. The attacks would have to go individually and the "player commanding" would then be required to remove the specific model the wound was allocated to. So if you claim a cover save for 1 of the 5 in cover you would have to remove THAT model. Except you cant claim a cover save until the 5 outside of cover were dead. Man this makes aegis defence lines stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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