New ITC Format Poll is out (BAO only)

[WestRider]

1 hour ago, Spaceork said:

What!?!? Are you kidding me? So a terminator squad and Bjorn, the fell-handed are to op? 

That's pretty much what most of the rest of us said.

[InfestedKerrigan]

21 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Theres a point at which you just have to call shenanigans and Power 31 is well past when I would.

 

21 hours ago, Spaceork said:

And what is the power level that you find to be shenanigans-less? Up to 25? 20?

 

18 hours ago, WestRider said:

12, according to some earlier discussions.

 

I bet you'll never guess who was suggesting 12.

[SPaceORK]

45 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

 

 

 

I bet you'll never guess who was suggesting 12.

That Lord guy? He doesn't seem to like anything but troops and transports. Which is totally fine. I can't tell anyone how to enjoy their game. 

Oh, my buddy Brick the Knight wants a word with your knights at some point! :)

 

 

[InfestedKerrigan]

LH is a great contributing member of the community, inculding hosting several events. My axe is that he hasn't allowed Knights at the Elvensword Ambassadorial as of yet. :) 

Well that and being such a proponent of restricting "large" models in general.

[SPaceORK]

Just now, InfestedKerrigan said:

LH is a great contributing member of the community, inculding hosting several events. My axe is that he hasn't allowed Knights at the Elvensword Ambassadorial as of yet. :) 

Yea he seems like great fellow but not allowing an army cause you don't like it seems unfair. They aren't even that scary anymore.

[InfestedKerrigan]

15 minutes ago, Spaceork said:

Oh, my buddy Brick the Knight wants a word with your knights at some point! :)

Tomorrow in Meddy Astral?

[SPaceORK]

Just now, InfestedKerrigan said:

Tomorrow in Meddy Astral?

Yes? Are two knights acceptable? Shooty one and a prophyrian + salamanders? Time?

[InfestedKerrigan]

You said knights, I was looking at bringing 4...so yes! Looking forward to seeing the Prop.

 

I need to see points. Haven't looked through IA Index Chaos yet. I'm thinking 2000 to 2500. 

11? Noon?

[InfestedKerrigan]

Oh, and I haven't played 8th yet.  First game.

[SPaceORK]

1 minute ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

You said knights, I was looking at bringing 4...so yes! Looking forward to seeing the Prop.

 

I need to see points. Haven't looked through IA Index Chaos yet. I'm thinking 2000 to 2500. 

11? Noon?

I like 2k but can go to 2.5k. I currently only have two knights built. Some more on order, one poor poor errant to be repaired. But the prop is like 815pts so hes more like a mini Titan. 

[SPaceORK]

3 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Oh, and I haven't played 8th yet.  First game.

8th is brutal! Very offensive based, not to much on defense.

[InfestedKerrigan]

2k sounds great.

[Lord Hanaur]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:50 AM, WestRider said:

12, according to some earlier discussions.

Actually 12 was just an example I had used when we were discussing it and specifically in the context of using it to guide you for more friendly tournamwnrts.

I went on to say (after my first couple games) that maybe 13 was better (a bull ork boyz unit is 13, so fairly mundane units reach that point).

After further playing and testing (I'm now 16 for 16 in 8th Edition!) I can see with more clarity.  You can get up to about 21 power and still have what might be considered a "normal" friendly list.  Once you get close to that number, it starts to get less friendly.  The StormSurge appears at 22 for example.

Understand that Genestealers don'g get above an 11 Power for their stuff.  Tyranids only get to 15.  But an ork can get to 49 Power.  The disparity there becomes obvious and so once you get around 21...  The scale tilts significantly after that between the haves and have nots, so to speak.

So That is why I say 31 is well short of where I might draw the line.  It's just the comparative power that various forces CAN bring and the comparison of the two.   Consider it an observation worth thinking about.... in the context of a friendly tournament where the goal is to create less mismatches.

[SPaceORK]

2 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Actually 12 was just an example I had used when we were discussing it and specifically in the context of using it to guide you for more friendly tournamwnrts.

I went on to say (after my first couple games) that maybe 13 was better (a bull ork boyz unit is 13, so fairly mundane units reach that point).

After further playing and testing (I'm now 16 for 16 in 8th Edition!) I can see with more clarity.  You can get up to about 21 power and still have what might be considered a "normal" friendly list.  Once you get close to that number, it starts to get less friendly.  The StormSurge appears at 22 for example.

Understand that Genestealers don'g get above an 11 Power for their stuff.  Tyranids only get to 15.  But an ork can get to 49 Power.  The disparity there becomes obvious and so once you get around 21...  The scale tilts significantly after that between the haves and have nots, so to speak.

So That is why I say 31 is well short of where I might draw the line.  It's just the comparative power that various forces CAN bring and the comparison of the two.   Consider it an observation worth thinking about.... in the context of a friendly tournament where the goal is to create less mismatches.

Ehh... I can see where your coming from. But I feel tournaments are a competitive setting and unless something is clearly busted with no hope of beating it (2++ rerollable, invisible units etc) then things should be left as is.

However, things like leagues, which are designed to bring people back in or help start, I can totally see capping power levels. But I would do so at 24 to allow for knights. I mean they aren't even that scary anymore.

[Lord Hanaur]

I think the point is, 31 is tooooo high and the disparity for some forces sooooo great that drawing a line does not seem strange for events that purport to be about friendly matchups.  Also, winning still requires you to win.  Competition doesnt disappear when you cap it.

[InfestedKerrigan]

4 hours ago, Spaceork said:

I mean they aren't even that scary anymore.

Did todays game change that view at all?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Also, winning still requires you to win.  Competition doesnt disappear when you cap it.

+1

[SPaceORK]

10 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I think the point is, 31 is tooooo high and the disparity for some forces sooooo great that drawing a line does not seem strange for events that purport to be about friendly matchups.  Also, winning still requires you to win.  Competition doesnt disappear when you cap it.

Where just not going to see eye to eye on this. You appear as though you like the kind of game that's "I'll bring a couple tac squads, maybe a captain with a power sword. But if you really want to to take it up a notch, I'll give him a powerfist! Which is totally fine. And maybe all your gamer friends are of similar mindset.

I however feel this game offers a huge variety of options for skill levels. Today I played Kerrigan, who's list was three knights, bloodthirster and some dudes (batreps incoming later) against my  power level 40 knight and dev squad spam.

Two hours later I was playing another game that was basically playing the starter box scaled up to 2k for each side.

Both games felt equally fair because both parties, each time, went in generally knowing what they were going to face and prepared for it.

So the point is, no restrictions need to be made if all players know whats out there.  In a tournament you should expect some very tough units. In a friendly game or a league or narrative campaign, you should expect armies to be more in the mild side. So capping power levels make perfect sense there.

Edit: The more I think about it the problem I have with your mindset is the whole "friendly tournament" thing. Tournaments are meant, imo, to throw down the biggest, shootiest, choppiest things you can cram into the points and throwing dice until nothing is left until you claim your prizing. Then take your battered and beaten opponents out for meat and mead.

Friendly games are meant for doing whatever. Playing that fluffy army cause it's cool or you really want ten dreadnoughts.

Friendly doesn't go with tournaments, except for the sportsmanship and helping with rules kinda friendly. 

[SPaceORK]

10 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Did todays game change that view at all?

Nope! Nothing against your skill, cause you played a near perfect game, but you going first really swung that game in your favor. 11 wounds on Brick turn one was brutal!

But I would gladly play it again!

[InfestedKerrigan]

Posted a batrep of sorts in Pinkerton PDM.

 

[derek]

I mean I get that some things look super broken when you look at power level 31+ but from what I can see there's not much there that is just so ridiculous that I couldn't bare to see it come to the table.   Like a big counter to knights for me would be a couple leviathan dreads with grav flux bombards does 5 damage per successful wound or hit have to check but when you see that it can tackle monsters and titans and vehicles and then also be an infantry killer in its own right power 31 isn't so intimidating.  

 

For me having played for just around 4 years now I think some people still don't like forgeworld and while I can understand the older groups of players having some who love it and some who hate it I think it's time to come to the realization that forgeworld is a thing and it's gonna be a very strong point for some armies like chaos for example.  Do I think tournaments can have a competitive feel without bringing the cheesiest army to the table yes, yes I do but is that gonna happen no probably not.  For the bao because 8th is so new might be good to curve the stuff people can bring but for lvo let the armies bring what they want if you want to see hyper cut throats spam the heavy hitting units that's where I'd be going for it.