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Black Sheep Brawl IV - March 14-15, 2015


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I invite you to join us at the Elks Lodge in Salem in March for the fourth Black Sheep Brawl.

 

The Black Sheep Brawl is 5 game Warhammer Fantasy Tournament with equal scoring for Painting, Sportsmanship, Narrative Story Points, and Generalship.

 

Registration is open at: http://bsbreg.appspot.com

Latest Event Details are on Order of the Black Sheep Website (2400 points, fully painted armies, etc.)

 

This year, you will be playing scenarios trying to vie for control of the legendary army of the Black Sheep.  Here are a few reasons this event will rock and you should join us!

  • The trophies you win hold awesome things like beer!
  • Each year we wrangle up a long list of sponsors to bring great product prizes
  • Throw dice and have great fun with old friends and new as Fantasy players up and down the West coast converge
  • We'll have a dedicated bartender in the tournament hall
  • All of your dice will roll perfectly all weekend! ( definition of perfectly to be defined )

So, you want to join us, right?  Here's what to do:

 

Step 1 - Get your name on the list at registration

Step 2 - Pay $40 by Jan. 31st, or $50 any time after that here

Step 3 - email your army list to orderoftheblacksheep@mail.com by Feb. 28th [Swedish Comp] [End Times Supplement]

 

See you there! :biggrin:

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I have a conflict so I am 99% sure I can't attend (boo!) but I'm wondering: do you have any idea when your Swedish comp scoring addendum will be ready for End Times armies?  I'm curious whether guys like Malekith or Karl Franz or whomever will be showing up.

 

Also (sorry if I'm just poking a bear but I'm truly curious) what is the thinking behind just using Swedish to match the first round?  It seems to me like people wanting to place well will want to bring as hard an army as they can get above zero comp, since first round pairings don't mean all that much in a 5 game tournament.  I mean if you're going to the trouble to use Swedish comp, might as well make more use of it?  I dunno... just pondering aloud :)

Thanks for your time and feel absolutely free to say, "We don't want to discuss this because it's just bound to cause headaches and we're already running the tournament so shut up and say thanks."  I totally get that :)

Thanks! (hah!)
Nathan

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I'll be finishing up the Swedish [bS] comp score for the End times characters tonight and tomorrow.  I'll then run it by our Prime members to verify that everyone agrees with my assessment, and then we will get it out to the public.  I would expect that addendum out by this weekend.

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I'm of the mind that any model on it's own should be allowed.  I will not ban a single model on it's own merits, but I will comp it heavy if it needs a heavy comp.  The full comp list will be listed this weekend, but to give you an idea, Karl/Malekith/Nagash are all in the range of 170.  Which means if you bring that filth, it's very hard to fit other filth in the army.

 

 

 I am curious as well why Swedish is only used for matching and not victory point difference as well.

 

I feel the Swedish comp is a good baseline to remove the truly broken armies, but I don't agree with giving armies extra points other than that which they earned in a game.  I feel it caters too much towards the better generals and list making tacticians.  I want both players to be able to look at the table and get a good feel for exactly how they are doing in the game. 

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Also (sorry if I'm just poking a bear but I'm truly curious) what is the thinking behind just using Swedish to match the first round?  It seems to me like people wanting to place well will want to bring as hard an army as they can get above zero comp, since first round pairings don't mean all that much in a 5 game tournament.  I mean if you're going to the trouble to use Swedish comp, might as well make more use of it?  I dunno... just pondering aloud :)

 

I might be somewhat just echoing what Iraf already said here, but here's what were going for by using Swedish comp the way we do:

  • We need a tool to judge filth level of armies so that players can have a pretty clear idea of what is "over the top"
  • The comp score should not be so important that it creates a meta-system that players have to analyze and build to in order to compete
  • We want the feel of the Black Sheep Brawl to be more "Straight up Warhammer", this is also why we use Win/Loss/Draw points instead of 20-0 system
  • Players should focus on building to be able to succeed at the unique narrative scenarios of the Black Sheep Brawl, which you must do well at to be the Grand Champion
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Black Sheep Brawls End Times Swedish Comp Supplement Characters


Scoring Existing End Times Army Units


Find in the individual army section of the main Swedish comp document and use that score for the unit.  Follow these additional guidelines.

The largest score will be used if the same item/ability is scored differently in individual army sections.


  • Counting items/abilities (e.g., war machines, wizards’ spell lores, or bow shots) will be cumulative across the whole Legion or Host, and not just within the units from an individual army section.


Nagash End Times Characters


Nagash -160 (-175 if Casket of Souls or Herotitan in army)


Mannfred Von Carstein, Mortarch of Night -100


Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament -100


Neferata, Mortarch of Blood -70


Krell, Mortarch of Despair -6


Vlad Von Carstein, Mortarch of Shadow -60


Morghast Harbingers 2 -20 (-10 per additional model in unit, 2nd unit add -10, 3rd unit add -30)


Morghast Archai 2 -24 (-12 per additional model in unit, 2nd unit add -10, 3rd unit add -30)


Valten -20 (-45 if mounted,armored and wielding Ghal Maraz)


Crom the Conqueror -10


Glottkin End Times Characters


The Glottkin -110


Orghotts Daemonspew -80


Bloab Rotspawned -60


Morbidex Twiceborn -40


Putrid Blightkings 5 -15 (-6 each model up to 7. -12 each model after 7)


Gutrot Spume -35 (+15 if mounted on a Warshrine)


Festus Empowered -30 (additional -1 Each 2 models (or each 3 Marauders) in a single infantry unit with Mark of Nurgle or without any mark at all (use the unit that gives

the largest penalty)


Karl Franz Ascendant -160 (-175 if a Light Wizard in army)


Khaine End Times Characters


Malekith, The Phoenix King -175


Malekith, The Eternity King -175


Tyrion, Avatar of Khaine - 110


Imrik, Crown Prince of Caledor - 110


Alarielle, Avatar of Isha - 65


Alarielle, Incarnate of Life - 85


Host of the Phoenix King


All infantry/cavalry units (excluding characters) will add an additional -2 each, in addition to their army books Swedish comp score to reflect the added rules for the Host of the Phoenix King Army Special Rules,


Host of the Eternity King


All infantry/cavalry units (excluding characters) will add an additional -5 each, in addition to their army books Swedish comp score to reflect the added rules for the Host of the Eternity King Army Special Rules.

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Any of the End Times armies may be taken. Players are required to find the Swedish comp for each unit they plan on taking. The list above is a breakdown of what is not found in the Swedish comp. And includes any additional addendum you may need. If you feel I've missed something feel free to message me.

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Separately, a quick note regarding comp scoring for ET: Khaine characters (the only ones I've really studied to any degree):

 

One thing that caught my eye is that Malekith the Eternity King is a lighter comp hit as the Phoenix King, because he's 1000 pts and the Phoenix King is 850 pts or whatever.  No insult intended, just double checking that was the intent, because to me Eternity King is the more game-breaking model.  As I'm sure you know, the number that really matters is "<comp penalty> / <points cost>", and while .175 is pretty heavy, it's lighter (again, per point) than other less nasty (IMO) stuff like Warlocks or even a kitted-out L4 Sorceress!

 

I'm sure it's good enough to accomplish your "limit the filth" goal, and of course just needs to hold up for one tournament so it's really more of an academic discussion than anything :)

 

 

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So, after playing with the modifiers for ET characters....holy Molly and good luck. I had a Swedish comp score of 8 with The Eternity King, 29 corsairs, and 2 units of 6 dark riders. I said f that biz. I didn't even attempt to finish a list.

 

I could be wrong but my intial take is that (IMO) the Malekith character is under-penalized, BUT the per-unit -5 penalty is too much... especially given that Martial Prowess benefits LARGER unit sizes, but a -5 flat per unit penalty penalizes SMALLER unit sizes.  So the bonus (to DE units at least) for being Eternity King Host is actually mis-penalized.

 

IMO a better (an almost as simple) EKing unit penalty would be to add a -1 penalty to DE units per 5 models in the unit, and a -2 flat additional penalty to HE units, or something along those lines (that's off the top of my head).

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The 175 is a good calculation for malekith. Like I said, I had 4 units and had an 8. That was only 1,609 points of models. You are going to have one heck of a time getting the other "toys" in the list.

I understand your statement about his abilities but I can get the following while only taking a-65 comp;

Level 4 death supreme sorceress on a dark pegasus, cloak of twilight, and staff of sorcery.

Is she as great as the eternity king? Special ability wise, no. Casting game changing spells, yes. She's flying around with snipe spells rocking a 3 ++. Malekith has no survivability against magic. His 3+/2++ is only good against non-magic attacks.

So, yes, I think the -175 was a good call.

As a side note, nagash is more game changing because he has the ability to bring more units/models to the table which give up zero VP.

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