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Pax's Tomb Kings


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Been painting a chaplain for 40k and been thinking it would be fun to paint an entire skeleton army, rather than just a few skelly bits on armor. How viable are tomb kings at present?

 

More so, can I just build whatever and have a decent time, or am I going to get locked into only a few viable builds? Not looking to play at events, but getting the skelly army ground into bone powder in every game without any chance on my end doesn't really strike me as enjoyable.

 

On a side note, I'm not planing to start with that undead legions supplement, but I may end up there later. $75 for a supplemental codex is too much for a starter army, in my opinion. I'll consider it if I can paint 100 skeletons and still want to paint more...

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Tomb kings are one of the weaker armies in the game at the moment, though they do gain a lot from undead legions options.

 

There are a limited number of viable tomb kings builds, but they do exist. As far as losing every game - if you're playing pretty casual players it's not an issue. You started with a couple blocks of skeleton archers and casters, and 2 stonethrowers and a casket of souls, and go from there. Tomb kings have a strong magic phase, and are very weak as an aggressive army, so you have to be OK with that.

 

Alternately you could start a vampire counts army with primarily skeletal elements (they also get skeletons in core). VC is a very versatile army with a lot of good builds. 

 

Unfortunately the truely outstanding (visually) skeletal models are the new moghast - and those are Undead Legions. 

 

The other thing to consider is that VC and tomb kings may be combined permanently in the near future, meaning if you started a tomb king army, other options can open up when 9th drops.

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While I agree with the rest of what Romes says, I'd skip the double catapult as there are more important things to get first (ie Necropolis Knights).  The SSC is a very fragile machine, cannot realistically benefit from TK buffs beyond a bubbled wardsave, and will turn your army into a purely ranged one going by the advice above which is bad tactically speaking.  The knights are one of the most powerful units you have access to, look cool, and are likely to be in most lists you build in the future.  

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I started fresh with Undead Legions last fall and even though it involved me buying two books,,well four actually counting the Nagash set of two I don't regret one bit on anything ive purchased..and I loose most every fantasy game I play....which doesn't bother me because I loose most ALL games I play anyway,lol.

 

Anyhow one thing to keep in mind is that if you do go the Undead army route you will have a great selection of models to use on summoning for all other fantasy armies you may be playing(or plan to),much like the Summoning powers in 40k with the CD dex.Ive gotten about as much use running my UL models(both TK and VC units) as summoned units in my OnG army as I have running them as a dedicated army alone.

 

Like you,I really like the Skellie models as they are easy to paint and look great ranked up on the board.Plus the TK archers with their special arrows always hit on 5+ which in my opinion makes them some of the best if not THE best archers in the game for the points cost.Also they make an awesome bunker especially coupled with a Tomb King(or Prince) giving them the WS buff..add in some casting from either codex and their numbers can be regenerated quite easily every turn.

 

So yeah,,you should do a Skeleton army and start playing squares on Sundays at WoW:)

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Thanks. I'll pick up the tk book and some basic models tonight. Worst case, I'll have an amazingly painted unit to sell/trade in a month or two.

Got the TK book. Wanted to get a warspinx, but GG didn't have one. Got some undead "serpentmen". Like the "serpentmen," no interest in those "snake riders." Gained some "freebie" skeleton infantry with my undead serpentmen. Decent kit. I'm enjoying the painting.

 

Pictures up when I feel like it...

 

Army book is a bit confusing, but for once, the GW FAQ answered all my questions. I was pretty happy about that. Main question was the wizard hat one.

 

As I read it, gonna need a Wizard to be the heirophant, but no other major changes beyond that. Any clue if the general can also be the heirophant? I didn't see anything to suggest I'd require a tomb king/prince, but I may have misread it. Want one of those anyway.

 

I've assembled GW undead archers before and recall the kit being a big pain to assemble them all. Suggestions for non-GW skeleton archers? 1-3 piece models being ideal. Reaper's got some good ones. Any others?

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Got the TK book. Wanted to get a warspinx, but GG didn't have one. Got some undead "serpentmen". Like the "serpentmen," no interest in those "snake riders." Gained some "freebie" skeleton infantry with my undead serpentmen. Decent kit. I'm enjoying the painting.

 

Pictures up when I feel like it...

 

Army book is a bit confusing, but for once, the GW FAQ answered all my questions. I was pretty happy about that. Main question was the wizard hat one.

 

As I read it, gonna need a Wizard to be the heirophant, but no other major changes beyond that. Any clue if the general can also be the heirophant? I didn't see anything to suggest I'd require a tomb king/prince, but I may have misread it. Want one of those anyway.

 

I've assembled GW undead archers before and recall the kit being a big pain to assemble them all. Suggestions for non-GW skeleton archers? 1-3 piece models being ideal. Reaper's got some good ones. Any others?

 

Hierophant can be the general in the new book (unlike in the old book).

 

The two models in the kit you bought are the Sepulchral Stalkers (seh-pul-krull) and Necropolis Knights, of which the latter is the significantly more competitive option. Though they both serve very different roles, and aren't in competition with each other.

 

As for TK...they're a frustrating army to say the least. There are some builds that are strong, but LOTS of trap builds that you'll get rolled over. Against low-mid tier players they are a fun and rewarding darkhorse army to play, but against good players their limited mobility renders them nigh unplayable in an uncomped environment. They'll win games, but there are so many bad matchups where even a tie is a major accomplishment.

 

Undead Legions really helps them out. VC units fill in some of the gaping holes in the TK roster. Vampire lords and terrorgheists to chew through armour, for instance. Vargheists to shred enemy artillery. Etc. However UL is End Times content, meaning that it comes with the whole gamut of unbalanced crap in that range. Without some sort of comp or "gentleman's agreement" about the new super characters you'll be in for some bad times. They're not unkillable but they're close, and it doesn't take a deep wealth of tactical knowledge to jam Karl Franz Ascended or Malekith down someone's throat.

 

 

Quite honestly, if you're looking for a "legion of bone" vibe then VC is the better option by far. They're faster, stronger, and are more fun to play than their slower, more gunliney cousins. If you've got some imagination and conversion skills it's not very hard to convert them up to look "tomb kingsey" either. HERE is a link to my painting log, where I've been doing exactly (in addition to the TK army that got pushed to the backburner when I burnt out on the book).

 

 

If you want non-GW skeletons, I strongly recommend Wargames Factory. They're cheap as chips, and in my opinion look better than either variety of GW skeleton (TK or VC). Some people like the more cartoony Mantic skeletons as well, but I think they're horrific (like the GW TK variety).

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Hierophant can be the general in the new book (unlike in the old book).

If you want non-GW skeletons, I strongly recommend Wargames Factory. They're cheap as chips, and in my opinion look better than either variety of GW skeleton (TK or VC). Some people like the more cartoony Mantic skeletons as well, but I think they're horrific (like the GW TK variety).

Thanks.

 

The two models in the kit you bought are the Sepulchral Stalkers (seh-pul-krull) and Necropolis Knights, of which the latter is the significantly more competitive option. Though they both serve very different roles, and aren't in competition with each other.

 

As for TK...they're a frustrating army to say the least. There are some builds that are strong, but LOTS of trap builds that you'll get rolled over. Against low-mid tier players they are a fun and rewarding darkhorse army to play, but against good players their limited mobility renders them nigh unplayable in an uncomped environment. They'll win games, but there are so many bad matchups where even a tie is a major accomplishment.

 

Undead Legions really helps them out. VC units fill in some of the gaping holes in the TK roster. Vampire lords and terrorgheists to chew through armour, for instance. Vargheists to shred enemy artillery. Etc. However UL is End Times content, meaning that it comes with the whole gamut of unbalanced crap in that range. Without some sort of comp or "gentleman's agreement" about the new super characters you'll be in for some bad times. They're not unkillable but they're close, and it doesn't take a deep wealth of tactical knowledge to jam Karl Franz Ascended or Malekith down someone's throat.

 

Quite honestly, if you're looking for a "legion of bone" vibe then VC is the better option by far. They're faster, stronger, and are more fun to play than their slower, more gunliney cousins. If you've got some imagination and conversion skills it's not very hard to convert them up to look "tomb kingsey" either. HERE is a link to my painting log, where I've been doing exactly (in addition to the TK army that got pushed to the backburner when I burnt out on the book).

I know what they are called, just been using silly/simplified names instead. Undead Serpentmen does describe them pretty well.

 

Not really to the build/list stage yet. General plan is: Paint these serpent men. Get 4 blocks of 10 skeleton archers painted/assembled (2 with full command). Get a Warsphinx with tomb king/prince. Get a second on foot king/prince. Get a herald. Get a 2 liches on foot. Get a necrotech on foot. Get a block of 40 tomb guard/skeleton warriors (infantry skeletons with HW+shield+light armor) with full command. Should be around 90 models.

 

Then decide if I want additional models or if I'm burned out on tomb kings/skeletons. The above projected army is still prior to actually playing the game. These are just the forces I want to build right now.

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Okay, which TK models don't have current/GW kits? A solid chunk of the TK on the GW site is direct only/out of stock.

 

In particular, looking to see the model for:

 

-Hierotitan

-Tomb Swarms

-Necrolith Colossus (with bow)

 

Do these exist? Did GW make them and discontinue?

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just an FYI for all those knocking TK... right now in second place at the masters is none other than a tomb king list! :D i know swedish helps them quite a bit and i bet the general has quite a bit to do with it, but still thats quite impressive!  his next matchup is against#1 an empire banish list though so it may be short lived at the top table lol. 

 

as for the models, this is very typical of gw to discontinue/unsupport their own freaking models.  you'll unfortunately have to find some second hand or construct them yourself.  for example in beastmen: they dont make gorebulls/razorgor chariots.  you basically have to convert your own.

 

EDIT: wow dead wrong.  TK list TABLED the light list.... wow he's going to win the whole thing

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Okay, which TK models don't have current/GW kits? A solid chunk of the TK on the GW site is direct only/out of stock.

 

In particular, looking to see the model for:

 

-Hierotitan

-Tomb Swarms

-Necrolith Colossus (with bow)

 

Do these exist? Did GW make them and discontinue?

The Hierotitan never had a model, Tomb Swarms existed, and the Necrolith Colossus' (aka Bone Giant) model never featured a bow.

 

Speaking as someone at Masters right now, you should see these dice. Straight cray!

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Okay, which TK models don't have current/GW kits? A solid chunk of the TK on the GW site is direct only/out of stock.

 

In particular, looking to see the model for:

 

-Hierotitan

-Tomb Swarms

-Necrolith Colossus (with bow)

 

Do these exist? Did GW make them and discontinue?

The Hierotitan is pretty easy to make from a Warshpinx kit and an extra set of front leg bits.Basically you make one of the two versions the kit makes(The Necrosphinx I think) then use the extra legs and the left over upper torso/head from the unbuilt version.

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It's fine, I'm very adept at conversion. Just that GW not making a model often means that GW might not support it in the future. Not something to stop me, but something to keep in mind when considering expensive conversions.

 

I did get a chance to peek at the Undead Legions list. Nothing really that special, I was somewhat disappointed. Basically, allows access to TK+VC and drops the hierophant. Given the skeleton theme, VC really don't offer much. Loss of hierophant rule is annoying. I've no intention of using any special characters, and I especially dislike the new models due to their poor durability in construction (they will break in transit). They did modify it so units can march within 12" of the general, but the TK army is designed to function without that.

 

Okay, another question. Found a dated online review of the Lore of Nehekhara. It seems to think that I can only use that Lore attribute once per turn per unit. As I read it, it "immediately" heals units whenever augment spells are cast. Even if a unit can only be subject to a single augmentation per turn, one can replace the others, right? 

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Yeah if you are set on doing a skeleton army then the Vamps don't offer much in that area,however some of the Ethereal units like Hexwraiths could fit in nicely as they are a very usefull unit and are pretty much ghostly skeleton horsemen:)

 

Also keep in mind that once an army starts to crumble it means game lost more often than not.Really,theres no reason to not run an UL list now as there`s no downside to it.You could call it an UL list and just use TK models ,then not have to worry about crumbling out of a game.

 

Now of course if you end up wanting to break into some of the non skeletal choices in the UL list then you will find that the mix of TK and VC armies to offer some very nasty combos and can be quite competitive.

 

I think the once per turn use of the lore attribute is only for animated constructs as they can only recover one wound this way per magic phase.As far as I know you can regen models for each augment cast at a unit.

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Yeah if you are set on doing a skeleton army then the Vamps don't offer much in that area,however some of the Ethereal units like Hexwraiths could fit in nicely as they are a very usefull unit and are pretty much ghostly skeleton horsemen:)

 

Also keep in mind that once an army starts to crumble it means game lost more often than not.Really,theres no reason to not run an UL list now as there`s no downside to it.You could call it an UL list and just use TK models ,then not have to worry about crumbling out of a game.

 

Now of course if you end up wanting to break into some of the non skeletal choices in the UL list then you will find that the mix of TK and VC armies to offer some very nasty combos and can be quite competitive.

 

I think the once per turn use of the lore attribute is only for animated constructs as they can only recover one wound this way per magic phase.As far as I know you can regen models for each augment cast at a unit.

Well, heirophant rule does add regeneration (6+) to model and unit. Not huge, but it is a free bonus and I'd be fielding a wizard anyway.

 

As for army crumble, the TK version is interesting as it allows a much more prolonged crumble, as I can retain the general (general's leadership) and BSB (re-rolls and TK BSB bonus) even if the heirophant is destroyed. Heirophant has no distance related requirements, so he can remain backfield or fly to the other end of the board without limiting my army (until he dies).

 

The VC approach leads to a more all or nothing army, where the one general's death also triggers the crumble and creates major problems with no real solutions. Dunno which is better, but I'm not a fan of the all my eggs in one basket approach that is the VC.

 

As for that lore of undeath, I'll admit, I find the entire lore very confusing.

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