Pax's Imperials

[Guest]

Wow, my math sucks. 63pts over. I'll make all the level 2 psykers into level 1s, except the warlord.

[Guest]

Let's see. Game was better than last time. Opponent was soulburst eldar a again, but different player with a much softer list. I lost, but not as hard a blow as before.

For highlights. Ratings wounded the wraith knight. I did manage to possess my SM Libby and get a bloodthirster on the table. A sentinel actually hit with a hunter killer missile. And the Ultramarine doctorine allowed me to avoid an overheat.

 

 

[Guest]

Checked out the AM FAQ. Looks like AM do have Daemonology access, even on the Astropath. Conscripts gained frag grenades too. Not a lot of other big tweaks that I noticed. Oh, the other thing of note is that, under present rules, the Primaris Psyker is largely pointless provided I am taking SM allies. For 50pts I get the AM primaris psyker and for 65pts I get the SM Librarian at Leadership 10 who is much more melee capable. I think I'm going to need a Librarus Conclave, if only for the higher leadership psykers. 

Ordered a copy of Angels of Death, for the alternate SM formations and such. For now, I think I'm going with a Gladius so I can treat the librarius conclave as part of my main detachment. 

Really liked the heavy weapon squad, but I need to get something to prevent them from fleeing if they take wounds. 

[Guest]

Okay, more tinkering.

First, Angels of Death arrived. Great book. Just one more reason that playing DA was a mistake...

Second, a buddy at the GG league explained, very rationally, that playing with ultramarines chapter tactics was pointless due to the docterines being easily acquired for any chapter via the battle demi-company and gladius strike force formations. The only change is special character access. Since I'm doing a custom chapter anyway (Smiling Skulls), I don't really feel tied to UM chapter tactics. I gave the books some looking over, and I think my favorite, as a custom chapter, is Salamanders. I'm not a fan of the sally fluff or paint scheme, but I do like their rules. So, marines will be using Salamanders chapter tactics for now. 

Third, for heavy weapon teams, still haven't figured a good way to prevent them from fleeing, but I'm thinking 2 lascannons and a Mortar per team. The idea is that the mortar is an ablative wound for the squad due to the mortar being the cheapest heavy weapon. Additionally, it means that if my Lascannons lack line of sight to the opponent, the unit can still remain where it is and still shoot at things. 

[Guest]

Not finished, but I can't decide how to finish this one (mostly how to paint the hammer)

Formerly Eziekel, this is my Smiling Skulls Captain with the (Salamanders) Drake Smiter chapter relic.

[generalripphook]

If you go salamander I might think about changing that ultramarine symbol 

[Guest]

At this stage, it is just a custom chapter.

[generalripphook]

Just informing you there is potential for confusion 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, generalripphook said:

Just informing you there is potential for confusion 

Ah. Yeah, that's a fair point.

[Sugarlessllama]

52 minutes ago, generalripphook said:

Just informing you there is potential for confusion 

I think the blue and red paint scheme, and the Khorne-esque symbol will prevent people from thinking that they are Ultramarines.

[generalripphook]

4 minutes ago, Sugarlessllama said:

I think the blue and red paint scheme, and the Khorne-esque symbol will prevent people from thinking that they are Ultramarines.

I like the red and blue. But If i were to look at that army i'd say they were a successor chapter of the ultramarines, because of the blue omega. 

[Sugarlessllama]

Just now, generalripphook said:

I like the red and blue. But If i were to look at that army i'd say they were a successor chapter of the ultramarines, because of the blue omega. 

First, I when I first saw that I thought it was supposed to be a smile because they are the "Smiling Skulls". And second, I don't think there is a rule that says chapter colors or iconography determine what chapter tactics they can use. So it doesn't really matter if the opponent is "confused" or not.

[Guest]

So, was thinking more about it. The main thing is that he doesn't look like a Dark Angel, right? That is Ezekiel's model after all, I just added new hands and the Dreadknight's weapon, plus a backpack with Iron Halo. 

Anyway, I don't have strong attachment to the Salamanders. The main thing is that a buddy at the GG league was pointing out, that mechanically, playing UM is silly since the UM chapter tactics are part of the Gladius and Battle Demi-company as a freebie for any chapter. And that is kinda annoying. That Special Chapter daemon prince, you know, the UM chapter master, doesn't actually require being in a UM detachment, as far as I know, so the only real advantage in running UM would be if wanted their special characters (Cassius, Calgar, Sicarius, Chronus, Tigarius, or Telion). 

I'm running a custom chapter anyway, plus I don't have any desire to really run special characters. And taking the less advantageous option because I like the fluff was exactly why I was running DA and also why I was having trouble enjoying the DA. So I do like the Salamander's rules, I'll use those until GW gives the UM an update, and then I reconsider. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

Ah, I was wondering why the hammer was so goddamn big, and what set it was in. Thanks for answering.

[Sugarlessllama]

Are for running Ultramarines Chapter Tactics in a Gladius SF. I do it all the time, and I don't think it is silly. While using Salamanders in a Gladius lets them use each Doctrine once, being an Ultramarines Successor means I use them twice; except for Tactical Doctrine: I use that three times.

I have found being able to re-roll all my 1's during the first three turns of the game to be a huge boon. And my tactical squads are essentially twin linked in both the shooty and fighty phases of the game for three turns in a row. Three. Turns. In. A. Row.

I only have to start choosing between better shooting or fighting on turn four.

However, if you really prefer the lore of the Salamanders (which is some awesome lore IMHO) then you should keep doing it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sugarlessllama said:

However, if you really prefer the lore of the Salamanders (which is some awesome lore IMHO) then you should keep doing it.

Lore, no, I like neither chapter's lore. I don't like their paint scheme either. That's why I'm doing a custom chapter....

14 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Ah, I was wondering why the hammer was so goddamn big, and what set it was in. Thanks for answering.

Yeah, well the rules for the "Drake Smiter" are basically a Mastercrafted Thunderhammer, which can opt to forgo all attacks, for a single D weapon swing (still master crafted). The rule is called "Mighty Swing" so I think a giant weapon fits the bill pretty well. It's 50pts, Salamanders specific, and it has all the faults of a normal thunderhammer (unwieldy specialist weapon). Still, I've found D weapons to be very important in the current meta. He's 140pts. 

[Guest]

Okay, Still sorting the detachments and trying to get models finished for the formations I want to run, so basic CAD for now. 1850pt list for tonight's GG league. 

SM (Salamanders) CAD

Captain (Drake-smiter) 140pts

Command Squad (5, 4x BP+CCW, Company Champion) 105pts

-Razorback (Heavy Bolter) 55pts

Tactical Squad (5, Flamer) 75pts

-Razorback (Heavy Bolter) 55pts

Tactical Squad (5, Flamer) 75pts

-Razorback (Heavy Bolter) 55pts

Vindicator Squadron (3) 360pts

Vengeance Weapon Battery (1, Punisher Turrent) 75pts

Subtotal 995pts

 

SM (Salamanders) Libarius Conclave

-Librarian (Sword) 65pts

-Librarian (Sword) 65pts

-Librarian (Staff) 65pts

Subtotal: 195pts

 

Allied AM Detachment

Company Command Squad (5, 3 Snipers, Boltgun) 58pts

Infantry Platoon 

-Platoon Command Squad (4, Autocannon) 40pts

-Infantry Squad (9, Autocannon) 60pts

-Infantry Squad (9, Autocannon) 60pts

-Heavy Weapon Squad (3, 2 Lascannons, Mortar) 90pts

-Heavy Weapon Squad (3, 2 Lascannons, Mortar) 90pts

-Heavy Weapon Squad (3, 2 Lascannons, Mortar) 90pts

Destroyer Tank Hunter (1, Dozerblade) 170pts

Subtotal 658pts

Grand Total 1,848pts

 

In case you are wondering, model selection prioritizes WYSIWYG over having the best model choices. 

[Guest]

Let's see. Faced Mark's Orks. Definitely lost. Wiped would be more accurate. I choose remarkably terrible deployment, my dice were terrible, and I was very sleepy so I kept making rookie mistakes, but in fairness, he probably would have won anyway, just less decisively. I did have fun, though, and that Drake Smiter was very fun to have on the table. 

The Destroyer Tank Hunter with it's TL single shot, missed for the first two turns (rolled "2" then rerolled for a second "2" on two different turns). That's an example of rolling that was happening. My army had trouble destroy ork trukks....

Anyway, for the purposes of testing new units and models, it was a great game.

Vindicator Squadron proved to be a waste, and the opponent, who has faced it before, commented that I did nothing wrong in that case, and that it is always a waste.

Heavy Weapon squad with mixed las+Mortar actually worked pretty well. The idea was to have shooting attack for when the opponent isn't in your firelane. My dice were still terrible, but they preformed about how they were supposed to on paper. 

Librarians were each attached to a heavy weapon squad, so as to eliminate the low leadership of those units. They worked well in this respect. For the purposes of summoning daemons, on the other hand, they were terrible. The issue was a lack of space due to the very packed backfield that the lascannons were placed in. In hindsight, I need more alternate deployment units, if I choose to field daemonic summoners, so I have room for them to deploy. I only successfully summoned once, and it mishaped, followed by a 1 which destroyed them (that's how I was rolling for most of the game). 

Razorbacks, in this list, were probably a waste. I think for salamanders, the Rhino is a superior option, just because they can flame out of it. I could have also run Chimeras, which would have probably matched things better. 

Punisher Vengeance Battery was fine, ultimately, but suffered greatly from the rest of the army underpreforming. I lost a turn of shooting with this guy because my opponent placed the closest model as a battlewagon (AV14), so having to shoot the nearest was an issue. This shouldn't have been an issue, but despite a very close battlewagon, I couldn't destroy it with anything due to really shoody rolling (lascannons into the av12 side couldn't even glance). 

Command squad was fine, though they suffered from a lack of assisting melee units. In hindsight, I need more melee, because the AM really can't provide that. 

Captain with the Drake Smiter was fun to field. He actually rolled pretty well, but was attacked by a giant unit of meganobs with S8+ ap2 melee. I also never really found a situation where the D attack was better than a thunderhammer attack. I did use it, but the target had only a single wound at that stage. I should probably adjust his build away from that overpriced melee weapon, but it was really fun. 

And the biggest take away, Salamanders really need more flamer weapons. 

[Guest]

One note in that last game is that my list can't cope with deathstars. So I either need my own deathstar, or a few counter-deathstar units.

I was also pretty impressed with melee combat in that game. Might be fun to run a more melee focused army. I do like those Bullgryns and I did acquire some Tallarn Rough Riders.

In line thoughts about deathstars, I could probably work up an IC spam unit that was mostly techmarines. Sure Iron Hands would be the obvious option, but I noticed that the Anvil Strike Force can take unlimited Techmarines as Auxiliary options, so some potential with a techmarine-based deathstar via that route. They're still 65pts each, and lack invulnerable saves, but they are effectively 2-wound terminators. Plus, I actually own about 10 RT techmarines...(I usually use them as assault marines since they have two weapons, a repair tool and a pistol).

On 3/28/2017 at 3:39 PM, generalripphook said:

I like the red and blue. But If i were to look at that army i'd say they were a successor chapter of the ultramarines, because of the blue omega. 

Still thinking about this one. I suppose I could additionally paint the parent chapter on a knee pad or something else. Nothing too huge, but enough to establish clarity in my represented chapter.

That said, after that crushing defeat, I'm tempted to chapter "hop" again and again, until I find one that fits me. Still love the Drakesmiter model, but I could really do that as just an exaggerated thunderhammer for any PA model.

It is true that my paint scheme is very close to the Crimson Fists, I suppose I could be a successor to them. I do own Pedro, though, no special attachment to his rules. I might be saying this just because I got tabled by Orks...

[Guest]

Huh, hehehehehe. Okay, could go raven guard and take the "Raven Skull of Korvaad" on a librarian. Then deliberately kill him early on with daemonology (malefic) powers, which would also cause the skull to drop and give my models the Hatred and Rage. A fun way to incorporate daemon summoning, and fluffy since khorne hates psykers.

Hmm..that might work.

[Guest]

Still screwing around with concepts and searching through my bits bins for models. Found 2/3 centurions (or rather, enough bits to make two centurion-like models). Found my scout bikers. Found my storm raven. Found the thunderfire. Keep finding techmarnines and chaplains.... That techmarine-star idea is starting to seem very realistic. Figured out how to convert metal furioso dread into an ironclad without new purchases. In case your wondering, a lot of these got put on hold when I got into that last DA army.  

Started assembling my rough riders. Found the pieces and then assembled my Biker Techmarine. Not a big fan of bikers in 40k, but they can't take jump packs in C:SM, so if I want to attach them to the Roughriders, he needs his bike. And does seem like a good mix, since the techmarine has good leadership and has that servo arm, to provide the AT that rough riders really lack. Plus as an IC, he can detach and attack things that I don't want to waste their lances on. 

 

[Guest]

Fleshing out the list concept more. Decided that since I like FW models and fortifications so much, I really need a CAD (unless there's some other detachment optioin to add fortifications and FW models to your army...?). I do like having the option to make a vehicle into my warlord, so I think I'll run a SM CAD, Anvil's Strike Force, and an AM detachment. 

As for chapter tactics, the bottom line is that I mostly don't care the chapter tactics rules. I don't like the UM option just because it means one more thing to keep track of during the game. So, given the choice, I'd rather have chapter tactics that come up very little during the game. That ravenguard skull relic that gives hatred and rage to my guys when the bearer dies sounds fun, I guess I'll go ravenguard for the next game. Besides, I've got those bullgryns with slab shields, which would mesh very well with ravenguard chapter tactics. 

 

SM (Ravenguard) Shadow Force Formation

Captain (Raven's Fury, Thunderhammer) 135pts

Sternguard (5) 110pts

-Razorback (TL Heavy Bolter) 55pts

Vanguard (5, Relic Blade, Jump Packs) 125pts

Landspeeder (HF) 45pts

Subtotal: 470pts

 

Anvil Strike Force (Ravenguard)

Techmarine (Bike, Raven Skull of Korvaad) 100pts

Predator (Autocannon, Storm Bolter) 80pts

Predator (Autocannon) 75pts

Whirlwind (1) 65pts

Ironclad Dreadnought (Warlord, Hammer+MG, Fist+HF) 145pts

-Drop Pod 35pts

Techmarine (1) 65pts

Subtotal: 565pts

 

AM CAD 

Company Command Squad (4, Missile Launcher+Flakk, Camogear) 83pts

Bullgryns (4, Slab Shields) 190pts

Veterans (9, Mortar, Camogear) 75pts

Veterans (9, Mortar, Camogear) 75pts

Rough Riders (7) 77pts

Destroyer Tank Hunter (1) 160pts

Vengeance Weapon Battery (2, 2x Punishers) 150pts

Subtotal: 810pts

 

Grand Total 1845pts

 

Still a mess of units. Foot Techmarine joins Bullgryns. Bike Techmarine Joins Rough Riders. Idea is to try to play a bit more agressive than I normally do. 

[Guest]

Ran a dreadnought warlord, so, of course, my opponent was necrons. They ran that formation where they 4+ reanimation. Player rolled exceptionally well on reanimation rolls. I killed almost nothing. Offensively, my opponent's army was not very agressive or offensively potent, he still won, but it was a slow victory despite me rolling terrible and having that very hodge podge army.

For highlights, that destroyer tank hunter, once again, failed to hit 2/3 times, despite a TL weapon at BS3. I've rolled '2s' on 7 of those rolls in the last two games. Different dice this time...

Rough riders failed their change (roled 1 & 2, rerolled for snake eyes...), so I still don't really know what they do. They did get assaulted, after they failed. They got to face necron wraiths without hunting lances, which butchered them. I didn't have enough ravenguard nearby to test the Skull relic. 

I did really like the shrouded as it affected my attached units of AM for turn 1. Ravenguard chapter tactics are definitely the way to go when running AM allies. 

Bullgryns were deployed poorly, so didn't grant cover to any other units. That said, they were decent in assault. I was also surprised when I realized that the frag assault cannons are pretty effective at point blank range, and have very little effect if they scatter back on the bullgryns prior to an assault (S4 vs T5, and AP6 vs 3+ armor). The Unwieldy techmarine was a bad pair for the Bullgryns, but I otherwise liked that unit. 

That Shadow Force formation is amazing. Land Speeders and Jump infantry with Move through Cover is awesome. Probably not as good as white scar bikers, but still pretty cool. I need more vanguard veterans - I like this unit.

It hit me while playing, that necrons are one of the few armies I could actually justify running paired lightning claws against. Lots of units with 3+ or worse armor, all with FNP that can't be denied, intiative 2 on everything, and no super high toughness units (like wraithknights). I think I have some LC terminator arms, might give it a shot. 

Punishers Vengence Batteries, Predator, and Whirlwind all underpreformed. We called it before they died, but they weren't offensively potent enough to justify their cost. 

As backfield objective holders, the Veterans with camo were fine. I did run into two issues. First, they can't wound anything in close combat. And Second, they have terrible leadership which matters in assault since they also are taking wounds quickly. 

The captain actually did fine with just a thunderhammer and an Iron Halo. 4+ reanimation, on the other hand, that was hard to deal with. Got locked in with 3 Destroyers, and did eventually win, but I think he wasn't very efficent about it.