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pretre

New 40k edition

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>:)

I hope the old RT save system comes back.  Termies might get fun again.

The old ap mechanic worked a little differently.  My numbers are probably off (I'm old and the book is in the garage). 

models had a set armor value (the number you needed to roll to save) that was modified by the incoming weapons ap.  So power armor (3+) hit by a las gun (ap0) still only had to roll a 3.

Power armor (3+) hit by a bolter (ap1) needed to roll a 4+.

power armor (3+) hit by a plasma rifle (ap4) needed to roll a 7 (impossible so the model was just removed).

Old terminator save was a 3+, but on 2d6.

Hit by bolter =4+ on 2d6

Hit by plasma =7+ on 2d6 (very do-able)

They also worked in the invuln by not letting TDA saves get modified past a certain point.

If they tone down grav just a touch maybe termies will see daylight again :)

All wish listing at this point.

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osted 23/03/2017

Warhammer 40,000 News from AdeptiCon

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Perhaps the biggest talking point at AdeptiCon this year* was the future of the game of Warhammer 40,000. Ever eager to help, Warhammer TV shared some of their recent findings with the Warhammer Studio Preview crowd, after putting peerless reporter Duncan on the case:

There you have it folks – pretty radical stuff!

All your questions answered, we’re sure…

warhammer-40k-logo.pngNext up Pete Foley, head of the Warhammer Books and Boxed Games studio, shared some of his team’s current thinking on the game.


Pete:

It’s been a great six months for Warhammer 40,000. The latest batch of FAQs helped improve everyone’s enjoyment of the game and really clarified some of the key rules. And they were possible, in large part, thanks to the help of you guys and the rest of the online Warhammer 40,000 community. I think it’s really great that we’re now developing rules by engaging the community and working with people like Frankie and Reece from LVO, Mike from Nova and Hank, Greg, Chris and the rest of the AdeptiCon team.

So tonight we wanted to share with you some of the rules concepts that we’re currently working on and give you a quick peek at some stuff that maybe you’ll get to use this time next year at AdeptiCon.

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3 Ways to Play

The General’s Handbook has been one of the most popular rules supplements we’ve ever released. Who’d have thought letting people choose how they wanted to play their games and giving them a clear way to do that would be so popular…? It’s pretty clear from talking to a number of event organisers, that Warhammer 40,000 would benefit from the same approach. So we’ll soon be introducing the same 3 ways to play – open, narrative and matched play – to the 41st Millennium.

Army Selection

One of the things that comes up a lot is the idea that people should be rewarded for taking thematic armies. It’s a sentiment we agree with and so we’re looking at introducing Command points. A mechanism to reward players who structure their army like their in-world counterparts, with rerolls and cool army specific rules throughout the game.

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Movement

We think the Move value should come back. No more default unit types. Every model should have cool bespoke rules. Not only would that be more fun, but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models.

Shooting

Armour save modifiers. This topic comes up almost as often as Sisters of Battle… so we’re going to bring them back. Every weapon will have its place in your army and better represent how you imagine them working in your head.

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Combat Phase

Charging units should fight first. It’s just more thematic. So we’re hoping to work this out as well. It will reward tactically outmaneuvering your opponent. You can dictate the combats rather than being entirely Initiative based. You control who swings first.

Morale

Its no longer all or nothing, and it affects everyone. We’re thinking of replacing break tests with a simple mechanic. Roll a D6, add that to the number of models your unit has lost this turn, subtract your Leadership and take that many additional casualties.  


Exciting stuff.

Stay tuned to the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page for future updates on the game.

 

*At least prior to the announcement of Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire.

 

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"Charging units should fight first."  Genestealers might be combat monsters again!

"Roll a D6, add that to the number of models your unit has lost this turn, subtract your Leadership and take that many additional casualties.  " That kicks horde armies square in the nutz! 

Could be very interesting

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1 hour ago, PumpkinHead said:

"Charging units should fight first."  Genestealers might be combat monsters again!

"Roll a D6, add that to the number of models your unit has lost this turn, subtract your Leadership and take that many additional casualties.  " That kicks horde armies square in the nutz! 

Could be very interesting

That is the basic rule concept, horde units could get a rule that cuts their casualties and who knows what fearless will do...

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2 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

So much for the lack of Sigmarification everyone has been claiming 

To be fair, if you go back and look at the threads... I, and others like me, said a couple things:

- No reliable rumors had been put out on the 'aosing' of 40k.

- People tend to differentiate between two things when talking about 'aosing/sigmarification' which is why it is a horrible short hand. I.e. the destruction of the world/fluff and starting over and simplification of rules. The thing that most people didn't like about AOS was the destruction of fluff and the simplification of rules without points. It looks like neither of those things will be occuring.

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1 hour ago, generalripphook said:

I am holding my breath that's for sure. I don't wanna proclaim anything until I've seen a more cohesive view of all the rules. 

Any idea when the whole package will drop? 

Last one dropped early May. My bet is may again this year.

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1 hour ago, pretre said:

To be fair, if you go back and look at the threads... I, and others like me, said a couple things:

- No reliable rumors had been put out on the 'aosing' of 40k.

- People tend to differentiate between two things when talking about 'aosing/sigmarification' which is why it is a horrible short hand. I.e. the destruction of the world/fluff and starting over and simplification of rules. The thing that most people didn't like about AOS was the destruction of fluff and the simplification of rules without points. It looks like neither of those things will be occuring.

To be fair, the lack of reliable rumors was not related to our fears. The issue was that AoS presented without reliable rumors, GW just surprised players with those rules after releasing a bunch of really expensive supplements to the previous edition. Yes, the edition change was expected, but the sheer amount changed was not expected.

Without the rules and fluff of previous editions, AoS is a different game entirely - so of course people were upset with GW regarding it as the new edition. Fluff and rules is all a game really is, anyway.

4 hours ago, pretre said:

3 Ways to Play


The General’s Handbook has been one of the most popular rules supplements we’ve ever released. Who’d have thought letting people choose how they wanted to play their games and giving them a clear way to do that would be so popular…? It’s pretty clear from talking to a number of event organisers, that Warhammer 40,000 would benefit from the same approach. So we’ll soon be introducing the same 3 ways to play – open, narrative and matched play – to the 41st Millennium.

This is the sort of thing that makes me feel that GW is out of touch. The General's Handbook is not selling because it's GW's best supplement - it's not really a supplement because you can't really enjoy AoS without it due to them releasing an incomplete game. It would be closer to refer to it as the main rulebook, in which case, it is doubtfully GW's best selling rulebook.

In addition, the General's Handbook is sold at far less cost than a similar book would be sold from GW. And I doubt GW will make the connection, that discounted rulebooks sell better....

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I'm very excited about quite a bit here.  

I always hated the drop of movement stats and the change to AP from save modifier from 2nd to 3rd.  You lose granularity and gained streamlined rules, but that steamlining has been reduced in value with all the other rules bloat 40k has seen.  Like now a heavy bolter's better armor penetration compared to a multilaser is going to matter.  

Having Eldar move 5" and Humans 4" was a nice variable. Instead of wonky additions like running with its randomness you can have more streamlined and standard movement.  

Now you can give combat MCs a speed boost to make them useful (hopefully).  

What I'm annoyed by and continue to really be pessimistic about GW and 40k is that the rules are bought at great price and get outdated so quickly OR because they cost so much to replace mistakes stay codified way too long.  

Not to be THAT GUY, but the biggest thing that I've loved about WarmaHordes is that the rules are downloadable and you can buy a digital copy of your army on an app that serves as both a rules source and also a list builder.  Not only is this cheaper (I've spent $26 total on rules for WMH), but it also enables Privateer Press to "patch" their rules when there is an obvious power imbalance.  As an example, in late January, the new Khador theme list (note that GW is apparently stealing this idea) came out and was broken as [big bad swear word].  THREE WEEKS after it was released, they patched it and took out the broken stuff and left a useful theme list.  

Essentially, as excited I am to see what GW does with 40k and hopefully a major redo will bring more balance or let different units shine, until GW divorces themselves from selling rules instead of just selling models 40k is perpetually doomed to eventually be imbalanced.  That's going to be the big moment. Accepting that crowd-sourcing rules/points tweaks are always going to be better than just accepting group think from the design team.  

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1 hour ago, fluger said:

Not to be THAT GUY, but the biggest thing that I've loved about WarmaHordes is that the rules are downloadable and you can buy a digital copy of your army on an app that serves as both a rules source and also a list builder.  Not only is this cheaper (I've spent $26 total on rules for WMH), but it also enables Privateer Press to "patch" their rules when there is an obvious power imbalance.  As an example, in late January, the new Khador theme list (note that GW is apparently stealing this idea) came out and was broken as [big bad swear word].  THREE WEEKS after it was released, they patched it and took out the broken stuff and left a useful theme list.  

Essentially, as excited I am to see what GW does with 40k and hopefully a major redo will bring more balance or let different units shine, until GW divorces themselves from selling rules instead of just selling models 40k is perpetually doomed to eventually be imbalanced.  That's going to be the big moment. Accepting that crowd-sourcing rules/points tweaks are always going to be better than just accepting group think from the design team.  

They haven't been as fast, but they've been doing this with AoS. A number of Warscrolls (free to download) have been tweaked (the big one for me was Slaanesh Daemons changing their buffs from being near a "Daemonette Hero" to being near a "Daemon of Slaanesh Hero"). All the Points Values are centralized in the General's Handbook, which seems to be priced where it is in part so that it can be updated on a yearly basis without huge cost. Both the original set of Points Values and the revisions in the next version coming out soon are based on input from TOs, and a number of other changes were put in motion after they saw some of the Armies at LVO and realized that the Rules weren't actually doing what they wanted them to.

It'll be a while before they really get there on response time, but they're already miles better than I've ever seen before.

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GW has always been fairly good at making good game systems and has been fairly [big bad swear word] at introducing new elements to those systems in the form of new armies. 

I like a lot of just the basics I'm hearing here about 8th, but it will be for naught if they don't balance armies/units/options.

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Being able to only speak for myself, but I have really enjoyed Age of Sigmar. The rules are clean, the gameplay is fast and pretty dynamic, and the new lore and models have been fun. I really don't know what more I could ask from a game system. If they bring some of these elements to 40K, I think we could be in for something cool.

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1 hour ago, Sugarlessllama said:

Being able to only speak for myself, but I have really enjoyed Age of Sigmar. The rules are clean, the gameplay is fast and pretty dynamic, and the new lore and models have been fun. I really don't know what more I could ask from a game system. If they bring some of these elements to 40K, I think we could be in for something cool.

Prior to the General's Handbook, would you say the same is true of AoS?

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Yes.

The only things of import the General's Handbook added was the Matched Play system, and path to glory. Path to Glory was introduced previously, so it wasn't new to that publication.

But the core rules of the game did not change with the introduction of the General's Handbook. And I like the game even without points.

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AoS has pretty much been my only game ive played since its release.I would very much like to add 40k games back into my mix though and im really stoked about the possabilities here.

  With that,,I have to say that if they did a carbon copy of rules and system from AoS over to 40k,I would be dissapointed,40k needs to be a unique system due to its wide variance in unit types.First off 40k has vehicles and AoS,for the most part does not. I feel Vehicles are their own beast and any system needs to figure in potential critical damage,as well as glancing hit effects.The other unit classes can probably be adjusted to AoS mostly,with degrading MC`s,Elite,line troops,heros and such.

 And they NEED to do a 40k app just like the AoS one,with everyone having access to all army dataslates and a base set of rules.Leave the formations behind a paywall like in AoS is fine.This is probably the biggest thing for me,NOT having to worry if I have the most recent suppliments,dataslates and all that crap,everything I need to play including my army list is on my tablet,,or even my phone.

  Whats good to hear with this announcement is that GW is working with several fan outlets in coming up with this new ruleset,this is pretty much the way they have dealt with AoS since it was released heck,the points system in the GH was taken from the Warscroll builder people and adjusted by the Heelenhammer and Bads dice groups.So in essence,even though GW said from release that they didnt intend to do points,,they werent lying as they actually let the fan groups come up with the foundation to the system they ended up using.I think one of the recent announcements was that the individual behind scrollbuilder.com is now working directly with GW on future projects for AoS,,perhaps hes helping them out on a 40k version even.

 

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My head hurts just trying to absorb this.  

"Every model should have cool bespoke rules. Not only would that be more fun, but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models."

I stopped playing 40k because it got too hard to keep up with all of the crazy "bespoke" rules that really tarnished my last OFCC experience.  

One of my opponents showed up with 4-ish models and some book with tokens I'd never heard of. Guess how it went!  

"but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models"  Really? 

That being said... when's that "You Damn Kids Get Off My Lawn" league starting again?

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1 hour ago, Justjokin said:

My head hurts just trying to absorb this.  

"Every model should have cool bespoke rules. Not only would that be more fun, but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models."

I stopped playing 40k because it got too hard to keep up with all of the crazy "bespoke" rules that really tarnished my last OFCC experience.  

One of my opponents showed up with 4-ish models and some book with tokens I'd never heard of. Guess how it went!  

"but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models"  Really? 

That being said... when's that "You Damn Kids Get Off My Lawn" league starting again?

 I believe what they are getting at here is something that has been standard in AoS from the start,,that is Warscrolls(Dataslates in the case of 40k) have all the unit special rules on them...so you gather the ones that are in your army and thats all you need.

  Now I can see what you mean by getting blindsided by "just knowing your own units",,happens to me in 40k every time I play,,and yes,im sick of it too.The fix to that?  make all Warscrolls(Dataslates) available to everyone for FREE,,this is truly one of the best things about AoS, im speaking about the AoS app.

   With fantasy,the new app removed the need for army books,,sure you can buy the Battletomes for the formations and backround plus other perks like painting schemes and additional scenarios..but they are not manditory to play the game.GW has hit a home run with this format so you can bet it will be used in some form in the new edition.I expect 40k to have a new app ready to go at the lauch of the reboot,this will keep all existing armies,up to date and functional in some form.

 

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