Flirting with Death

[Ish]

Important errata that you should know, however, is that all Orruk Wizards gain a +6 to unbind rolls against Death Wizards. Honest.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

Important errata that you should know, however, is that all Orruk Wizards gain a +6 to unbind rolls against Death Wizards. Honest.

 

Huh, guess I'll have to stay away from those. Thank goodness I've got those 31" range catapults....goodbye Orruk Wizards.

[Ish]

Totes OP. GW please nerf. 

?

[Threejacks]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 3:36 PM, paxmiles said:

Hmm so if my army on the table lacks skeleton warriors, and I decide I need some, then any Death Wizard in my army can cast that spell, despite there being no skeleton warriors in my army to give them that spell?

Prior to the General's Handbook, you had to have the unit in your army at the start, in order to summon it, or at least that was how it was explained to me. 

  Yeah it has been faq`d,,and I rem when you were playing a year or so ago that we were actually playing it were you had to have a warscroll of the summoned models already in your army.That was the prevailing interpretation at the time.

  They did a big clarification on the runup to the Generals Handbook release.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ish said:

Totes OP. GW please nerf. 

?

Doesn't Grand Alliance Destruction have the longest ranged warmachine in the game? I think the Doom Diver Catapult is the longest ranged warmachine in AoS.

[Ish]

I've honestly got no clue about the shooting options for other Destruction sub-factions. I've mostly been focusing on the Ironjawz sub-faction and the only ranged attack in the entire allegiance is the "innards bursting bellow" weapon of the Maw-Krusha. A fearsome 8" belch of destruction! ?

Looking at a few of the Gitmob Grots entries on the app, the Doomdiver does have a massive range of 6-50" to start, but it drops quickly as the unit takes damage. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Ish said:

Looking at a few of the Gitmob Grots entries on the app, the Doomdiver does have a massive range of 6-50" to start, but it drops quickly as the unit takes damage. 

Most get worse with damage, but doesn't need to shoot all game, just long enough to get your boys into melee range.

And if they are shooting at it, they aren't shooting at your other units.

Against Undead, would you rather I shoot your Orruk Wizards or the Doom Diver? Given the range, I'll focus my range at your range and ignore the wizards.

[Ish]

I'll admit, counter-battery fire isn't something that King Orcthur has given much thought. Yet.

I've got a rough sketch for how I want my initial 2,000 Point Army to look and rough plans for what to buy. If I follow through on that I'll actually end up closer to 2,500 Points total as I'll be buying multiple Start Collecting and Skirmish boxes, getting some extra units... I'd been thinking that once that was done, I'd start to add Moonclan Goblins and build them up into a standalone army. But maybe Gitmob is the way to go?

(Sigh, if only the PowerBall officials would stop giving other people my millions.)

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Ish said:

I'll admit, counter-battery fire isn't something that King Orcthur has given much thought. Yet.

I've got a rough sketch for how I want my initial 2,000 Point Army to look and rough plans for what to buy. If I follow through on that I'll actually end up closer to 2,500 Points total as I'll be buying multiple Start Collecting and Skirmish boxes, getting some extra units... I'd been thinking that once that was done, I'd start to add Moonclan Goblins and build them up into a standalone army. But maybe Gitmob is the way to go?

I suppose it's an army theme thing. Does King Orcthur have a base of opperations, or is he nomadic? If he has a base, can he afford to leave the base and attack an incoming enemy in melee, or does he need to have units that fire from the towers and ramparts of his base. Maybe he's nomadic, so it doesn't really matter if he leaves camp since the horde is coming with him. Or maybe he's just durable/fearless enough where the threat of being attacked at home just doesn't register. 

Maybe the rank and file are mindless, for my undead, but I'd like to think the Death Wizards are pretty bright. I think they'd have a plan, or two, for most situations (even if the plan is simple, like sending even more zombies...).

[Guest]

No games in yet, so bear that in mind....but here's a projected 2k list:

Arkhan the Black 340

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon 440

Wight King BSB 120

Skeleton Warriors (10) 80

Black Knights (5) 120

Morghast Archai (4) 480

Mortis Engine 180

Screaming Skull Catapult 120

Screaming Skull Catapult 120

Total 2,000. 

[Guest]

Back tracking a bit. When summoning, how is cost determined for partial units? And do you pay when non-spells return or add models into the game? What about healing, do you pay for that?

For example, the Standard Bearer in most undead units returns 1d6 models each turn to that unit. Neferata, Monarch of Blood creates Vampire Lords each time she defeats Hero models with her weapons. And Screaming Skull Catapults have a spell to summon just the crew to an existing catapult with no crew. How are points worked out for these things?

[Threejacks]

2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Back tracking a bit. When summoning, how is cost determined for partial units? And do you pay when non-spells return or add models into the game? What about healing, do you pay for that?

For example, the Standard Bearer in most undead units returns 1d6 models each turn to that unit. Neferata, Monarch of Blood creates Vampire Lords each time she defeats Hero models with her weapons. And Screaming Skull Catapults have a spell to summon just the crew to an existing catapult with no crew. How are points worked out for these things?

  Units are summoned with the minimum size(unless stated otherwise on the spell) then payed for in incriments of their minimum size..partial units cost the full price of the mimimum size.

 

  Models returned to units already in play do not cost points.

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Threejacks said:

  Models returned to units already in play do not cost points.

 

So then summoning a replacment crew for a catapult would be free, since the unit includes the catapult?

[The Last Guardsmen]

21 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I suppose it's an army theme thing. Does King Orcthur have a base of opperations, or is he nomadic? If he has a base, can he afford to leave the base and attack an incoming enemy in melee, or does he need to have units that fire from the towers and ramparts of his base. Maybe he's nomadic, so it doesn't really matter if he leaves camp since the horde is coming with him. Or maybe he's just durable/fearless enough where the threat of being attacked at home just doesn't register. 

Maybe the rank and file are mindless, for my undead, but I'd like to think the Death Wizards are pretty bright. I think they'd have a plan, or two, for most situations (even if the plan is simple, like sending even more zombies...).

I can confirm that King Oocthur dose indeed have as castle. My Stormcast have layed siege to it over a bar tab.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, DasBox said:

I can confirm that King Oocthur dose indeed have as castle. My Stormcast have layed siege to it over a bar tab.

Nice!

So, Do you think King Orcthur would be a more challenging foe if he'd had some ranged units?

[The Last Guardsmen]

1 minute ago, paxmiles said:

Nice!

So, Do you think King Orcthur would be a more challenging foe if he'd had some ranged units?

We house ruled that defenders got a ranged 'bow' attack when on the ramparts because he had no ranged units available. Arr' Boyz need to be available for Iron Jawz. Those are still in the game, right?

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DasBox said:

We house ruled that defenders got a ranged 'bow' attack when on the ramparts because he had no ranged units available. Arr' Boyz need to be available for Iron Jawz. Those are still in the game, right?

 

Not sure, but grand alliance destruction definitely has some valid ranged units.

[Threejacks]

2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

So then summoning a replacment crew for a catapult would be free, since the unit includes the catapult?

Yes,,but you would of course have to pay the whole price for the machine and crew assuming they have only one point profile between them.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Threejacks said:

Yes,,but you would of course have to pay the whole price for the machine and crew assuming they have only one point profile between them.

 

I feel I'm getting more confused with this answer to my "is it free to summon the crew for an existing Screaming Skull Catapult" question. Says yes it is free, but then goes on to say they would have to pay... Perhaps you should look up the Screaming Skull Catapult in that free Tomb Kings PDF.

[Threejacks]

2 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I feel I'm getting more confused with this answer to my "is it free to summon the crew for an existing Screaming Skull Catapult" question. Says yes it is free, but then goes on to say they would have to pay... Perhaps you should look up the Screaming Skull Catapult in that free Tomb Kings PDF.

  Sorry bout that,,thought you were refering directly to summoning..

 

   You can only "bring back" models to a unit by a specific warscroll ability that allows it.In the case of Skellies,you have the banner bearer that allows it,,no points needed for that.
 

  The Skull catapult doesnt have such an ability..

  There are many other situations were a unit is killed but not removed from the board and allowed to be "brought back" many of these cases still require points to be payed to bring the entire unit back and have been covered(mostly) by FaQ.

 

[Threejacks]

  I just checked out the warscroll and I see what you are getting at..

 

 Ill check over at TGA and see if its been addressed:)

 

[Threejacks]

No responce as yet,,but after looking over the warscroll,,I would call it adding models back into an existing unit and thus resummoning the crew would not cost reserve points.Keep in mind though that players can choose to shoot either the warmachine or the crew,,that is something they clarified as well.

  One person over there did respond and their take is the same as mine.This is a bit of a unique situation as the warscroll ability that allows replenishment is in fact a summons of sorts(requiring a Wizard) instead of a particular model that is part of the warscroll.

 

[Ish]

This is only really an issue in Matched Play; Summoning just happens in Open an Narrative Play, no mucking about with reserved points.

[Guest]

Got a game in. Did a Free for all with Ish, Ish's Daughter, and myself. Ironjawz, Sylvaneth, and a Skeleton horde. Each player used only Getting Started forces. Arkhan Dominated, clearly too powerful for this match-up. Ish allowed me to summon, though in hindsight, I don't think I needed the summons. I summoned a single unit of Skeleton Warriors to replaces ones I lost in an avoidable battle, but even there, I think the game would have been more balanced without any summons (or instead only being able to summon instead of deploying normally). Game ended in a tie between myself and Ish, with the Sylvaneth only trailing due an under agressive treelord (I think the treelord would have beaten Arkhan in melee, had it tried). 3-way took longer than expected, so we did end prematurely for our mission. 

Game was very fun and it was a pleasure to play with them. Thank you, to Ish and Ellie.

For my bits learned, Undead are very, very durable. I don't think I need nearly the models I had considered in the past. Summons were a useful way to ignore the speed issues of the skeleton warriors, but didn't overly benefit me beyond that point. 

[Guest]

For the record, picked up a copy of the General's Handbook at GG on the day I played with Ish and Ellie. Answered most of my questions.

Though one came up. How does alliegence level work with summoned units? I mean, if I, for example, claim to have the Deathrattle Alliegence, does this prevent me from summoning non-deathrattle units? Or, since they are not part of the starting army, am I allowed to summoning anything I want? Does it matter if the source of the summon spell is from a terrain feature (like the Arcane Ruins allow me to summon Spirit Hosts, which are death units of a non-deathrattle alliegence...).

PS: I know my example is flawed due to Deathrattle not actually having any units that can summon AND Grand Alliance Death not really having the same level of faction support than the other alliances have, so other than Flesheater Courts, there is no advantage to having a non-Death alliegence.