SAGA New Edition (2018)

[Norrad]

Does anyone play Saga locally in PDX area during the week or weekends?

[jesselowe]

The usual group is about 4-6 guys, and we try to meet once a month (it's all older guys with jobs and families). The next one is probably going to be Sunday the 25th, though it might end up being the 24th.

[Torg]

4 minutes ago, jesselowe said:

The usual group is about 4-6 guys, and we try to meet once a month (it's all older guys with jobs and families). The next one is probably going to be Sunday the 25th, though it might end up being the 24th.

where do you meet to play?

[Norrad]

On 2/7/2018 at 8:18 AM, Koyote said:

Footsore Miniatures and Gripping Beast sell the best miniatures for this period. 

If you had a choice between Gripping Beast and Footsore which would you choose? Also it appears that both manufacturers have army bundles. Any reason to not look at these?

On another note, I ordered my books - Saga Rulebook v2, Viking Supplement, and Aetius & Arthur book.

[Koyote]

12 hours ago, Norrad said:

If you had a choice between Gripping Beast and Footsore which would you choose? Also it appears that both manufacturers have army bundles. Any reason to not look at these?

On another note, I ordered my books - Saga Rulebook v2, Viking Supplement, and Aetius & Arthur book.

Most of Gripping Beast's sculpts are a bit dated and they offer fewer poses than Footsore.  With that said, their newer stuff is much better in quality and variety of poses.

Given the choice, I'd go with Footsore.  If you do go with Footsore, don't buy their wire spears.  They are very skinny.  Almost like sewing needles.  Instead, buy your wire spears from Gripping Beast.

https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/SC57_Wire_Spears_20--product--4216.html

 

[jesselowe]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:28 AM, Torg said:

where do you meet to play?

Guardian Games, back in the bar. Usually from noon to 5 or so. Check the GG calendar for a reservation for Gabe's Saga or the like. 

[taran.shannara]

My pre-ordered books from the UK arrived today. Time to start reading.

[Torg]

hmm Ok I ordered the book - looking forward to trying this out.

 

-d

[Norrad]

I got my the 2.0 rulebook plus Aetius and Arthur supplement yesterday. I’ve only had a chance to skim the rules but I’m a bit disappointed at this point. I realize that Aetius and Arthur required the main rule book or Crescent and Cross to use it but it appears that you have to have Crescent and cross for the cavalry rules. Is there any way to get the cavalry rules without buying another book?

[Koyote]

Norrad, you don't need the C&C rulebook.  The rules for mounted troops can be found on page 39 of the SAGA 2.0 rulebook. 

C&C served as the core rulebook when A&A was published.  As such, when A&A refers to a 'core' rule, like mounted models, it references a page number in the C&C book.  If you want to play SAGA 2.0, you simply disregard the C&C references and instead look for the corresponding rule in the SAGA 2.0 book. 

If you want to play SAGA 1.0, you should buy C&C. 

C&C 2.0 will most likely be the next new source book.  They are going to expand it to include 12+ factions.  Like the newly released Viking Age book, it won't include core rules.  Any references to core rules in all future source books will direct one to the page number in the new SAGA 2.0 rulebook.

 

[Norrad]

9 hours ago, Koyote said:

Norrad, you don't need the C&C rulebook.  The rules for mounted troops can be found on page 39 of the SAGA 2.0 rulebook. 

 

Ahh, I missed that when I was skimming. Thanks

[Norrad]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:24 AM, jesselowe said:

The usual group is about 4-6 guys, and we try to meet once a month (it's all older guys with jobs and families). The next one is probably going to be Sunday the 25th, though it might end up being the 24th.

When do you think the next Saga day will be? Saturday the 24th or Sunday the 25th? What times do you normally gather? I’m looking forward to seeing some games played. 

[jesselowe]

19 hours ago, Norrad said:

When do you think the next Saga day will be? Saturday the 24th or Sunday the 25th? What times do you normally gather? I’m looking forward to seeing some games played. 

It'll be this Sunday the 25th from 1-5, at the back of Critical Sip in Guardian Games. We usually gather once a month, on one of the last two weekends of the month, but the exact day is on a month-by-month basis. I'm not sure I'll be able to make it this month, but Gabe and a couple other guys should be there.

[Norrad]

Games looked cool yesterday. Thanks for letting me hang out and ask questions. 

[Koyote]

Last Tuesday I played my first game of SAGA 2.0.  I love the new rules.  Below are some of the changes and my impressions.

Movement

The requirement that models move in a straight line does take a bit getting used to, but in exchange for the loss a maneuverability, they've removed restrictions on the distance between models from opposing warbands and and certain compulsory charges.  The latter were rules that were often overlooked, so doing away with them is a good thing.

The Maneuver rule is a brilliant addition to the game.  If a unit in open ground is more than 12" from an enemy unit, it is permitted a free movement activation that cannot bring the unit within 12" of an enemy and cannot take the unit over uneven ground.  The Maneuver rule speeds up the game and lets straggling units catch up without having to spend SAGA dice on them.

Another interesting change is the 'intent' principle.  If you intend for your models to be a certain distance away from another model, you express your intent to your opponent.  Then, if it turns out that your placement was off by a fraction of an inch, you simply adjust your model's placement to reflect that intent.  

SAGA Dice

Unused SAGA dice left on your battle board no longer reduce the number of SAGA dice rolled during your Orders Phase, so long as the number of dice you generate plus the dice on the board don't exceed 8.  This little change lets you bank some extra dice over time.  It's especially useful for unused Saga abilities that require rare symbols.  

Death Stars

One of the best changes is the curtailing of SAGA Death Stars.  Unlike many other games, SAGA Death Star units don't play themselves.  They require careful planning.  Nevertheless, in the hands of competent players, these Death Star units can quite formidable.  

The most common Death Star is a unit of 12 mounted hearthguard equipped with shooting weapons and played by factions that give them the ability to run away when threatened.  The melee version of this Death Star combined with killer combat abilities and/or free activations and good defensive abilities is a bit less common, but also very effective.

Both types have been nerfed by a new cap on the amount of dice in the unit's initial combat pool.  The maximum amount of dice a shooting unit can put into this pool is 8 and for melee it's 16 (these numbers can be doubled by dice gained via SAGA abilities).  The new cap softens the punch of Death Star units and creates an incentive to limit Hearthguard units to 8 models.

Levies

In SAGA 1.0 Levies didn't see much play unless the player's faction had shooting or Levy specific SAGA abilities.  For other factions, Levies could be provide some useful ranged attacks, but this had to be balanced against the fact that the Levies don't produce SAGA dice and their armor, melee capabilities, and fatigue cap were all low.  

In SAGA 2.0, if a unit of Levies numbers 6+ models, it produces a SAGA die.  Also, a Levy's base armor is now the same as Warriors, 4/4.  It's reduced to 3/3 if the unit is armed with bows, crossbows, or slings, but units armed with javelins or comp bows are 3/4 and Levy units without shooting weapons are 4/4. As before, a Levy unit equipped with shooting weapons generate 1 melee attack die per 3 models, but now Levies without shooting weapons generate 1 melee die per 2 models.  Lastly, in SAGA 1.0 a Levy unit became exhausted when it received 2 fatigue tokens.  Warriors were exhausted at 3 and Hearthguard and Warlords at 4.  In SAGA 2.0 all units have the same fatigue point cap (which is 3), putting them on the same footing as Warriors, Hearthguard, and Warlords.

Fatigue

As described above, all units are now exhausted when they receive 3 fatigue tokens.  Additionally, a unit can never receive more than 3 fatigue tokens, so you cannot exhaust a unit for multiple turns by dumping a ton of fatigue tokens on it.  

In melee, exhausted units don't lose combat dice, rather their dice suffer a -1 penalty.  Also, if an opponent spends an exhausted unit's fatigue tokens, the exhausted unit remains exhausted for the duration of the current melee.

A more significant change to the fatigue rules is that in melee, one can use an opponent's fatigue tokens to reduce or raise armor multiple times.  For instance, if your opponent has two fatigue tokens, you can use both tokens to reduce the unit's armor by 2 points.  If an enemy has 3 fatigue tokens, you could reduce it's armor by 2 and increase your unit's armor by 1.  Very cool.  

The most significant change to the fatigue rules is that a player can spend two of an enemy unit's fatigue tokens to cancel that unit's activation. Before, the ability to cancel a unit's activation was restricted to SAGA abilities possessed by only a handful of factions.   Now, everyone can do it.  

Managing fatigue tokens has always been an important aspect of the game, but now it will be one of the most important factors determining victory and defeat.

 

[Koyote]

Studio Tomahawk has released Skraelings rules for SAGA 2.0.

Rules

Battle Board

 

[Koyote]

SAGA 2.0 FAQ

Javelins have been toned down. 

 

[Norrad]

So when is the next Historical Game day event at Guardian?

[jesselowe]

The most recent one was Saturday, unfortunately. The next one is probably the weekend of September 22-23, but that is still up in the air.

[Ish]

Do we know anything about when the Second Edition of Saga: The Crescent & The Cross is due out? I fell in love with Saga when it was initially released, but never got a chance to play much and had to sell off my rulebooks when I moved. I'm an unashamed fanboy for the Crusades era of history. 

Edit for Embarrassment: Turns out that I'm a moron and need to learn how to google. They've revamped the line and instead of releasing a new Saga: The Crescent and the Cross book, they have instead released a supplement for it called Age of Crusades. Well, now I know what to ask Santa for this Hanukkah.

[Atules]

Cool, where and when do you guys get together? Love to check out second edition

[Ish]

Well, I bit the bullet and just bought a warband on eBay. Still not sure if I’m going to go with Anglo-Saxons or Anglo-Danes... But in 3-4 weeks when they arrive, I’ll be ready to start defending this sceptered isle from the fury of the Northmen. 

 

[Koyote]

It looks like Studio Tomahawk is teasing fantasy SAGA.

[Ish]

Given that the core Saga rulebook for second edition prominently features werewolves, skeletons, and elves in some of the photographs, it’s safe to say a fantasy supplement was always planned. Personally, I’ve always thought the Saga rules would be perfect for capturing the heroic-fantasy feel of Lord of the Rings better than the GW games.

Likewise, I really hope we get a supplement covering the Sengoku Jidai period of Japan, the Trojan War and/or Peloponnesian War. 

(Incidentally, my Anglo-Saxon army just arrived in the mail yesterday. I’m lacking a warlord, but other than that I’m now the proud owner a five point warband. A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine.) 

[Koyote]

SAGA's creator said in an interview that all of images in the SAGA New Edition teaser video were put there for a purpose.  From this we can assume that each will eventually become a new source book.  These images include the 100 Years War, Norse Mythos, Greek Mythos, and Feudal Japan.

Footsore Miniatures has recently released a new line of Feudal Japanese miniatures.  In the past, Footsore has developed miniature lines and packaged its miniatures (i.e. in sets of 4) in such a way as to target SAGA players.  I suspect Footsore's newest release is in expectation of a the Feudal Japanese/East Asian source book.  Footsore may even has some inside info on the order of upcoming source books.