6 week "tourney"

[pretre]

32 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Personally, I think the malefic lords are crap and I was not complaining about them at all.

Personally, I'd replace them with heralds of slaanesh or nurgle. Would benefit your list more and have better rules and better psychic powers.

I totally agree. I mean who would want tons of super cheap smite platforms in their list?

[VonVilkee]

42 minutes ago, pretre said:

I totally agree. I mean who would want tons of super cheap smite platforms in their list?

Their other powers are okay and used well that many smites can be useful but limited by positioning. The perils charge is cute too! Cheap is the thing how much is a Herald in lords? 2-3?

[InfestedKerrigan]

Yeah, I've played him twice, and both times everything was painted. 

[SPaceORK]

4 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

Their other powers are okay and used well that many smites can be useful but limited by positioning. The perils charge is cute too! Cheap is the thing how much is a Herald in lords? 2-3?

Herald is 3ish Lords. They are 30ish point smite batteries that randomly become demon princes. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Herald is 3ish Lords. They are 30ish point smite batteries that randomly become demon princes. 

Malefic lords are 30pts exactly, and you have 5, so 150pts. A Herald of Slaanesh is 66pts. Heralds of Nurgle are 70pts. Each has an aura that buffs by +1 the Str of <MARK> DAEMONS within 6". So, they would be buffing you princes (and themselves). Each also casts 1 power per turn, and has their own weapons and deity specific rule. 

That Herald of Khorne is the cheapest at 56pts, but not suggesting them because they don't add to your army (and they aren't psykers).

Tzeentch one is 78pts and is worth looking into because they can take a 5pt upgrade which boosts the range of their smite to 24".

 

I know, less psychic powers. But I do think they are a better value for your army. I think two heralds would be better than 5 malefic lords. Plus they'd look cool. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

They are 30ish point smite batteries that randomly become demon princes. 

They do not become daemon princes, they get stat buffs, but they don't become another model. Their special rule should rarely come up, as it requires them to perils and survive. So you need to roll double 1s or double 6s on a psychic test. They only have 1 psychic test per turn. If they perils, they take d3 mortal wounds. They have 4 wounds base. If they survive, you get an improved offensive statline, but you remain just as wounded and gain no defensive stat increases. Also, if they die in perils, they deal d3 mortal wounds to all units with 6".

[SPaceORK]

7 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Malefic lords are 30pts exactly, and you have 5, so 150pts. A Herald of Slaanesh is 66pts. Heralds of Nurgle are 70pts. Each has an aura that buffs by +1 the Str of <MARK> DAEMONS within 6". So, they would be buffing you princes (and themselves). Each also casts 1 power per turn, and has their own weapons and deity specific rule.

Yes I know exactly how many points Lords are, I just wasn't sure if I was allowed to post exact points costs. Also cause I know the points of one, I also know the points of 5. 

While I really like heralds, I don't think I need them. In a more casual list I will absolutely run heralds. But here, they can't keep up with the princes and I really don't need +1s from them. One of the slaneesh princes, with intoxicating elixir and diabolic strength, makes for s10 and 9 attacks. That combined with all the smites allows me to take down hard targets.

7 hours ago, paxmiles said:

They do not become daemon princes, they get stat buffs, but they don't become another model. Their special rule should rarely come up, as it requires them to perils and survive. So you need to roll double 1s or double 6s on a psychic test. They only have 1 psychic test per turn. If they perils, they take d3 mortal wounds. They have 4 wounds base. If they survive, you get an improved offensive statline, but you remain just as wounded and gain no defensive stat increases. Also, if they die in perils, they deal d3 mortal wounds to all units with 6".

Yes, I realize they do not become actual demon princes. While not technically correct, it gets the summary of what the model does down pretty well.

Your missing the point of them. They are dirt cheap, so who cares what happens to them. They are smite batteries that hid behind cultist. Is one smite a big deal? No...  But 5 smites become a big deal. "But you have to target the closet model!!!" So? Take 10 wounds, no saves. And most people can move their models well enough to get what they want to be the closest model to be exactly that.

But if they perils they take D3 wounds! Again so? They can't die from it (remember they should be hiding in a cultist bunker), so throw your newly promoted Lord into the thick of combat. Who cares if he dies. He cost 30 points...

All that being said, I'm inclined to go with you on this and find something different. Against different things I think the Lord works great, but in my meta I think I want havocs, drones or heralds.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

Yes I know exactly how many points Lords are, I just wasn't sure if I was allowed to post exact points costs. Also cause I know the points of one, I also know the points of 5. 

 

Yeah, not sure either. But Pretre's been linking those leaked rules for a quite a while now, and never seems to get in trouble, so I've stopped concerning myself with it. It would be different if you or I were without access to the rules, and asking fishing questions to obtain free product. But since we both already have access, I don't see the harm in talking about that book we both read. 

 

22 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

While I really like heralds, I don't think I need them. In a more casual list I will absolutely run heralds. But here, they can't keep up with the princes and I really don't need +1s from them. One of the slaneesh princes, with intoxicating elixir and diabolic strength, makes for s10 and 9 attacks. That combined with all the smites allows me to take down hard targets.

Yes, I realize they do not become actual demon princes. While not technically correct, it gets the summary of what the model does down pretty well.

Your missing the point of them. They are dirt cheap, so who cares what happens to them. They are smite batteries that hid behind cultist. Is one smite a big deal? No...  But 5 smites become a big deal. "But you have to target the closet model!!!" So? Take 10 wounds, no saves. And most people can move their models well enough to get what they want to be the closest model to be exactly that.

But if they perils they take D3 wounds! Again so? They can't die from it (remember they should be hiding in a cultist bunker), so throw your newly promoted Lord into the thick of combat. Who cares if he dies. He cost 30 points...

All that being said, I'm inclined to go with you on this and find something different. Against different things I think the Lord works great, but in my meta I think I want havocs, drones or heralds.

Well, with two heralds, one for each mark, all the princes could be S8 and S10 with diabolic strength, instead of just the one with that artefact. Then you could save the artefact for something or someone else. 

If they perils, they can most certainly die from it, especially if they've taken damage (or if there some anti-psyker option that makes you take extra damage from perils). Sniper rifles are not the only way to damage models in your "cultist bunker". By far, the most common way to bypass it is with vehicle explosions, which would ever every UNIT in the area, with each maleific lord being their own unit. No regard to the character rule there. Those CSM Hellforged models even have special explosion that deals extra mortal wounds against psykers. 

But, sure, they are cheap. Totally agree with you there. But aside from smite (or other motal wound dealing psychic powers), they don't really contribute to the army. If anything, they kinda feel redundent in your army, just because you already have lots of psykers, so they'll only really contribute when the opponent is already proving unable to handle psykers. Plus the short range. 

I do think adding a second long range havoc team would be really smart. Even if it's the same 4 lascannons split into two squads. Just seems very practical to have a couple of long range units in an otherwise very short range army. On that front, I highly recommend Rapiers with C-Beamers for your list. Very cheap and "encourages" the opponent to move closer (which is very ideal for your army). 

[SPaceORK]

2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Yeah, not sure either. But Pretre's been linking those leaked rules for a quite a while now, and never seems to get in trouble, so I've stopped concerning myself with it. It would be different if you or I were without access to the rules, and asking fishing questions to obtain free product. But since we both already have access, I don't see the harm in talking about that book we both read. 

 

Well, with two heralds, one for each mark, all the princes could be S8 and S10 with diabolic strength, instead of just the one with that artefact. Then you could save the artefact for something or someone else. 

If they perils, they can most certainly die from it, especially if they've taken damage (or if there some anti-psyker option that makes you take extra damage from perils). Sniper rifles are not the only way to damage models in your "cultist bunker". By far, the most common way to bypass it is with vehicle explosions, which would ever every UNIT in the area, with each maleific lord being their own unit. No regard to the character rule there. Those CSM Hellforged models even have special explosion that deals extra mortal wounds against psykers. 

But, sure, they are cheap. Totally agree with you there. But aside from smite (or other motal wound dealing psychic powers), they don't really contribute to the army. If anything, they kinda feel redundent in your army, just because you already have lots of psykers, so they'll only really contribute when the opponent is already proving unable to handle psykers. Plus the short range. 

I do think adding a second long range havoc team would be really smart. Even if it's the same 4 lascannons split into two squads. Just seems very practical to have a couple of long range units in an otherwise very short range army. On that front, I highly recommend Rapiers with C-Beamers for your list. Very cheap and "encourages" the opponent to move closer (which is very ideal for your army). 

Waaaait a minute... I feel like I should know this but do the heralds aura's stack? Cause screw helping the princes, they are good enough on their own. But a squad of three foetid blight drones with 3x 2d6 s8 flamers seems amazing!

And yes you can come up with a bunch of ways to make lords seem bad. But those are corner case things. In fact I've yet to see a vehicle explode. And why would snipers target my Lords when they can target princes?

[VonVilkee]

5 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Waaaait a minute... I feel like I should know this but do the heralds aura's stack? Cause screw helping the princes, they are good enough on their own. But a squad of three foetid blight drones with 3x 2d6 s8 flamers seems amazing!

And yes you can come up with a bunch of ways to make lords seem bad. But those are corner case things. In fact I've yet to see a vehicle explode. And why would snipers target my Lords when they can target princes?

 Cuz enemy commander is smart? I'm not likely to kill the princes but I could pretty easily put a few wounds on the smite batteries to save having to deal with miscast buffed ones... always pros, cons, and choices to make. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Waaaait a minute... I feel like I should know this but do the heralds aura's stack? Cause screw helping the princes, they are good enough on their own. But a squad of three foetid blight drones with 3x 2d6 s8 flamers seems amazing!

And yes you can come up with a bunch of ways to make lords seem bad. But those are corner case things. In fact I've yet to see a vehicle explode. And why would snipers target my Lords when they can target princes?

They don't stack, but each only applies to daemons of a given mark. Your list has 4 princes, 2 slaanesh and 2 nurgle, so 2 heralds, one slaanesh, one nurgle, was my suggestion.

No clue on the bloat drone, but if their flamer is S user, the buffs to the model's Str will buff the flamers' Str. That Lord of Skulls has a few of these.

[SPaceORK]

20 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

They don't stack, but each only applies to daemons of a given mark. Your list has 4 princes, 2 slaanesh and 2 nurgle, so 2 heralds, one slaanesh, one nurgle, was my suggestion.

No clue on the bloat drone, but if their flamer is S user, the buffs to the model's Str will buff the flamers' Str. That Lord of Skulls has a few of these.

Drones flamer is indeed based off strength.

Yea if they don't stack then I don't want the heralds I think. Either havocs if I expect alot of t8/3+ or drones for infantry. Or Lords for if I don't know what they are bringing.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

Drones flamer is indeed based off strength.

Yea if they don't stack then I don't want the heralds I think. Either havocs if I expect alot of t8/3+ or drones for infantry. Or Lords for if I don't know what they are bringing.

The Herald +1 strength does not stack with another herald's +1 Str. Diabolic Strength would stack with the Herald +1 Str. 

[VonVilkee]

1 hour ago, SPaceORK said:

Drones flamer is indeed based off strength.

Yea if they don't stack then I don't want the heralds I think. Either havocs if I expect alot of t8/3+ or drones for infantry. Or Lords for if I don't know what they are bringing.

 mortal wounds are versatile...