Smiling Skulls Space Marines

[InfestedKerrigan]

Those are the ones I was thinking of. 

[Guest]

No problem. 

So, bloodthirster list. Something like this:

 

Khorne Supreme Command Detachment (+1 CP)

HQ Bloodthirster of Something (all the types cost the same) 340pts

HQ Bloodthirster of Something 340pts

HQ Bloodthirster of Something 340pts

HQ Bloodthirster of Something 340pts

HQ Bloodthirster of Something 340pts

Subtotal: 1700pts

 

300pts for other detachments....

[InfestedKerrigan]

Or reserve points

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Or reserve points

I've considered that, but I don't think it works for bloodthirster lists - they just can't summon things that fill the holes in their army and sacrificing their movement is crippling. 

I'm thinking I probably want TS allies. I know, kinda wrong, but Khorne has really crappy psychic defense and it hurts more than their general lack of ranged weapons. Flesh Hounds can deny, but flesh hounds aren't characters, so they can be removed really easily. Khorne Daemons have that single Artefact that allows denying, which I use and is good, but it isn't enough. Karanak is also an option, but he's spendy and not very impressive outside of denying and isn't really that impressive while denying. Really wish Khorne Daemons could take Grey Knight allies.....

[InfestedKerrigan]

5 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Really wish Khorne Daemons could take Grey Knight allies.....

That's so last edition

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

That's so last edition

Well, I wasn't serious.

I am working on a GK army, though. Nothing amazing or overly large, but I am stripping the hellbrutes/dreadnoughts from this army for use there. Not all of them, but most. GK have good Dreadnought rules and the hellbrutes are really crappy. Basically, I felt my small squad of RT GK needed a re-paint, so I'm working on making an "army" of them, though I doubt they'll get beyond 2k because I'm really not that passionate about them.

I sure hop around a lot with army projects. On the other hand, the Heldrake for Smiling Skulls is turning out great, despite not really needing him for the army anymore....

[Guest]

Got a PC, so battle scribe means no more math...

Sheer blasphemy, but really simple to run:

 

Chaos 2k

 

Khorne Daemons Supreme Command Detachment

HQ & Warlord Bloodthrister (Big Axe version)

HQ Bloodthister (Whip version)

HQ Bloodthister (Whip version)

HQ Bloodthister (Whip version)

 

Thousand Sons Supreme Command Detachment

HQ Daemon Prince (Wings)

HQ Daemon Prince (Wings)

HQ Daemon Prince (Wings)

Elites Beastman Shaman on Disc

 

Total: 1990pts/100 power level, 5 command points

 

Basically, each bloodthirster is being escorted by a psyker. Solves the issue of psychic defense, and further grants psychic offense.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Oh yeah, each Thirster load out has a unique dataslate. Nice.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Oh yeah, each Thirster load out has a unique dataslate. Nice.

I hadn't noticed the rule of three when posting. It's just the models I had. Learned after arriving at GG that the list didn't need further alteration.

[Guest]

Got two games in. Using open play missions from those cards.

First game, Courier, ended turn 1 without me getting a turn, since opponent was able to deep strike behind my "courier" and slay them before I got a turn. Not sure if that new FAQ allows turn 1 DS charges via psychic powers (ork Da Jump), but I opponent was a noob, so I didn't want to push it. And I'm a firm believer that noobs should win their first game.

Second game, same opponent (since the other was so quick), was that orbital drop one where the main objective doesn't arrive until turn 3. We finished only two turns...Opponent had excessive numbers of ork models and kept having to look up rules (like they needed to look up Ork BS each time a unit shot....). We called that game a draw, though I think they would have won eventually

Unit by unit review:

I still think the bloodthirsters are overpriced for what they have. They need a 4++ on the base model. At 340pts each, they are unusually weak defensively. Their offensive game is very impressive, but not 340pts impressive with only the 3+/5++, especially now that in 8e enemy units get to swing first when they charge the bloodthirster. I don't think they need a decrease in cost, just a minorly improved invulnerable save. They only reached a draw game 2 because opponent wasn't focus firing.

TS Daemon Princes. With a 3+/4++ stock, these were amazing for cost. Psychic powers were iffy, but that was because I gave them duplicates to avoid having to keep track of which was which (because my models were proxies for these guys).

Tzaangor Shaman. That was the courier model game 1. They suck, but they're cheap and only occupy an elites slot, so meh. After the game, was reading that there's a stratagem to turn them into chaos spawn. Might be able to get more use of them if they kill themselves after reaching the enemy. Hmm...

[Guest]

Been a long while since I posted. Switching, again, to Iron Warriors. One of my favorite armies from 4th was iron warriors. Been stripping models. Present plan is to not model on deity allegiance so I can switch when it suits me.

 

Anyway, 2k list for tonight:

 

Iron Warriors (Mark of Nurgle) Battalion

HQ Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor (Combi-bolter, Chainfist)

HQ Warpsmith (Combi-Melta)

HQ Cypher

Elites Fallen (5, 4x Plasma)

Elites Fallen (5, 4x Plasma)

Elites Fallen (5, 4x Plasma)

Troops Cultists (10, Autoguns)

Troops Marines (10, 2 Autocannons, Champion with fist, Icon of Despair)

Troops Marines (10, 2 Autocannons, Champion with fist, Icon of Despair)

 

Chaos Fortification Detachment

Fortification Chaos Bastion (Quad Gun)

Fortification Chaos Bastion (Quad Gun)

 

Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment

Lord of War Renegade Knight (Chainsword, Thermal Cannon, Twin Icarus Autocannon, Stubber)

 

Total 2k exactly. 97 PL.

 

If wondering about viability, no clue. Many of the units are filler units, so I can make 2k. Chaos Bastions will be represented by Chaos Dreadhold Towers ('cause they look awesome). I don't have a shortage of models, but I do have a shortage of ones I want to field in this army and are finished enough to field.

[Guest]

Got a game in with the above. Opponent was @Atomic and his OFCC Necrons. We did a single central objective, where the player at the end of the game with the most models within 3" won. Game was set to end at 10pm, which turned out to be just enough time for both players to have 3 turns. Atomic won, having one model within 3" (I think we kinda forgot about the mission during play).

My first game against necrons in this edition. That Quantum Shielding is something else. Turns out that autocannons were a perfect choice. Meanwhile, the renegade knight's chainsword was a huge waste, as was the thermal cannon.

Opponent didn't use any cover all game, so my IW legion trait was very much wasted.

Anyway, unit by unit review.

Chaos Bastions: Toughness 10, 20 wounds. Opponent didn't bother shooting at them. So, once again, I'm not really sure how practical they are defensively. Shooting was the same iffy shooting, though it was decent against the T6 necron vehicles - certainly not worth the points, but it helped. Having a unit embarked really helped (in 8e, they can only target the nearest unit, unless a unit is embarked).

Warpsmith: Once again, Warpsmith is best AA unit of 8e. Enemy doom scythe got melta death. BS2+ and 2 melta guns is very impressive against hard to hit flyers. And they seem drawn to fly into melta range of the warpsmith...

Renegade Knight: The Autocannon AA weapon was great. The thermal cannon and Chainsword, on the other hand, were complete wastes. I used Titanic Stomp in melee to decent effect. All that said, opponent had lots of trouble damaging this guy (lots of 5s and 6s for saves), and very much focused fire on it, so merely by drawing fire, this guy was great.

Troops Chaos marines: The Autocannons were great. Bolters and fist didn't really see any use. They camped in the bastions, which really did help with shooting.

Cultists: First Blood. Didn't survive long enough to be of note.

Cypher and the Fallen: As good a plasma team always is. Of note, they made melee this time. Downright decent against necron warriors in melee.

Chaos Lord in TDA: Didn't really do anything. He was there because my prince isn't done yet. I regretted all game, not having a daemon prince.

Army notes: Army was really slow. Definitely need some swifter units in the final version.

 

[WestRider]

Quantum Shielding can get really annoying when you're loaded up with high damage stuff. Arguably the best targets for Autocannon in 8th, relative to other Heavy Weapons.

With Knights, the Titanic Feet are better against most targets than any of the dedicated CCWs they can get, so a two-gun version is generally the best option. My favourite is dual Avengers, as much as anything because it looks awesome, but an argument can be made for pretty much any combo.

IW Legion Trait is very situational. Their Relic (especially on a Daemon Prince), Warlord Trait (makes big Cultist Units viable), and Stratagem are the more compelling reasons to use them.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Quantum Shielding can get really annoying when you're loaded up with high damage stuff. Arguably the best targets for Autocannon in 8th, relative to other Heavy Weapons.

With Knights, the Titanic Feet are better against most targets than any of the dedicated CCWs they can get, so a two-gun version is generally the best option. My favourite is dual Avengers, as much as anything because it looks awesome, but an argument can be made for pretty much any combo. 

IW Legion Trait is very situational. Their Relic (especially on a Daemon Prince), Warlord Trait (makes big Cultist Units viable), and Stratagem are the more compelling reasons to use them.

I didn't know what the opponent was bringing ahead of time, and I didn't know about quantum shielding, so there's that. Turns out that the Doom Scythe and Monolith both lack it, so those really should have been priority targets for Thermal cannons, though monolith didn't start on the table and was surrounded by warriors when melee was an option.

Anyway, Knight is starting to look really cool. And I just built the melee option, so I wanted to show it off. Any, it's cheap, that was main thing. And with all the autocannons, I wanted a heavier hitting weapon in the list. Really glad I didn't bring the Cerberus, all that leadership 10, plus quantum shielding would make a mockery of that super heavy.

Regarding the IW trait, I think cover should be used in almost every game. Opponent just wasn't taking advantage of it, and not because of my rules, just didn't seem to understand how to use cover. And this game also pointed out how durable those buildings can be, should anyone actually bring them.

I did realize, during deployment, that my warpsmith couldn't repair anything I brought...he still did good, but was kinda funny. He's one of the models I intend for the final list, but wasn't taken to blend with the filler.

If wondering, final list is basically, 1350pts, or so, of Iron Warriors, and either a spendy super heavy, or a cheap one and a fortification. Fallen aren't part of it at all, they were just ready to go.

[Guest]

Ordered IW "Symbols" for my Cerberus, planning to repaint that guy. Those arrived today.Don't think I'm going to strip it, just paint over the existing paint scheme. Stripping giant models sucks, plus the old paint scheme is basically primer with highlights so I don't think it will be too thick.

[Guest]

For GG League tonight:

2k Chaos

 

Iron Warriors (Mark of Nurgle) Spearhead Detachment

HQ Warpsmith (Combi-Melta, Warlord, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, Unholy Fortitude Warlord Trait)

Elites Mutilators

Troops CSM (5, Plasma Pistol, 3xCCW+BP, Fist, Icon of Despair)

Troops CSM (5, Plasma Gun, 3xBolters, Fist)

Dedicated Rhino (Extra Combi-bolter)

Fast Chaos Spawn (3)

Heavy Vindicator

Heavy Vindicator

Heavy Vindicator

 

Questor Traitoris Super heavy Auxiliary Detachment

Renegade Knight (Stubber, Thermal Cannon, Sword)

 

Iron Warriors CSM (Mark of Nurgle) Super heavy Auxiliary Detachment

Hellforged Cerberus Heavy Destroyer

 

Total: 1998pts

 

In case you are wondering, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton is the only Artifact that my Warpsmith is eligible for (as built).

[Guest]

 Was the odd man out. Didn't get to play.

Did get home a lot earlier, which was nice.

[Guest]

Really want to try out some updated/new models for my force:

 

60PL Iron Warriors (All Mark of Nurgle)

 

Iron Warriors Patrol Detachment

HQ Daemon "Multilator" Prince (Warp Bolter, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, 2x "Talons")

Elites Multilators

Troops CSM (10, 7 Bolters, 2 Autocannons, 1 Fist+Bolter)

Troops CSM (10, 7 Bolters, 2 Autocannons, 1 Fist+Bolter)

Fast Chaos Spawn (1)

Fast Chaos Spawn (1)

 

Iron Warriors Super Heavy Auxillery Detachment

Hellforged Cerberus Heavy destroyer 23PL*

 

Total 60PL

*Hellforged Cerberus Heavy Destroyer got a rather massive points increase in Chapter Approved, but they didn't mention anything about PL increases...Yeah, so I suspect that the PL of this unit is broken. Still, I think this unit is more balanced in lower point games, than it is in higher point ones, just because it's main weak point is only being able to kill a single model per turn (especially because mine has no sponson weapons). Unless my opponent brings Knights, should be fine.

[Guest]

Decent game. Used the above against tyranids. Not a great match up, but the mission was "relic" and I did warn my opponent about the Cerberus ahead of time. I also gave them first turn and choice of deployment, because I was worried the cerberus would be too potent.

Cerberus did it's usual 1 unit dead per turn, starting with the opponent's chief AT unit (tyrannofex), who had previously whiffed their shooting phase. Then it killed their swarmlord turn 2. We called it at the bottom of turn 3. At that point, we had reached an impass where the only eligible units to take the relic were unable to get there without dying to camping shooting units. We called it a draw.

I think the Cerberus was fine for the Power Level, the opponent's list turned out to include filler units to make the Power Level, so my list was unbalanced in the respect that my opponent had deliberately made an underpowered list.

Mutilators performed well enough. They engaged genestealers and a broodlord and did some damage. I got to test the Nurgle stratagem that returned a model to this unit, and that helped a bit. I think multilators are a keeper.

I decided to have one chaos spawn be reinforcements, so I could attempt to use "gift of chaos" with my daemon prince. This was also to soften my list by having less models on the table. The other chaos spawn did make melee against devourer termagants. Not very impressive, but decent for cost. Daemon prince was great in the shooting phase, but the psychic power didn't work out. Prince died to a swarmlord in melee.

Chaos marines were mediocre. They shot, they got shot, they got into melee, and did a little damage. Probably wasted points, but not worthless.

 

[Guest]

A Chaos Land Raider is 356pts

A Chaos Bastion with 5 Havocs sporting 4 Lascannons is 357pts

 

Not sure which is better, but its interesting how close they are. I expected greater difference when I was comparing the two in Battlescribe.

[Guest]

Iron Warriors Daemon Prince (in progress)

 

Lost a piece to the wings I was planning to attach and now I'm questioning the entire idea of having wings at all. I hate losing pieces. Wings were more of a Jump Pack anyway...

In any case, I do plan to add putty to make him look more like a giant obliterator (those strechy flesh bits that attach the oblit to their armor).

[Guest]

Still not convinced that Soulgrinders are viable, but I had this idea a while back and I finally made some more progress on my Tzeentch Soulgrinder:

[WestRider]

I personally feel like Soul Grinders are too expensive now that you don't have the option to leave the shooting weapons off. They were best just cheap, tough, and smashy.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WestRider said:

I personally feel like Soul Grinders are too expensive now that you don't have the option to leave the shooting weapons off. They were best just cheap, tough, and smashy.

Agree. Though I kinda feel like GW feels they've sold enough defilers and soulgrinders, and is interested in promoting the other heavy slots of their respective factions. Otherwise, they'd both have better rules.

[Guest]

Thinking about them more, the Soul Grinders really aren't that overpriced. It's more that the rest of the book already does what they do better, and they are a heavy slot.

They really do have a Melee offensive/defensive profile similar to a greater daemon. They are very slow, but can deep strike with a stratagem. They also have a 3+ armor save, which is quite impressive to all but khorne's greater daemons. So I think the idea is that if you want a bloodthrister-like unit but you don't want to run khorne, Soul Grinder is your guy. For Khorne, it's a Discount Bloodthirster that doesn't occupy an HQ slot.

It's also not a psyker, which is both good and bad, depending on your opponent and the rest of your army.

And their profile makes it easy to overlook their weapon options (Warpsword and Warp Claw). Warpsword grants rerolls to hit with all melee attacks, which means their non-degrading WS 4+ hits 75% of the time (making it better than WS3+). Warp Claw effectively doubles how many attacks they have, giving them 10 base attacks (12 with mark of khorne via unstoppable ferocity). And with a Herald nearby they should be wounding everything on 3s or better in melee (base strength 8, Heralds add +1 strength).

So, Soulgrinder should be reasonably effective. They won't be MORE DURABLE than a great unclean one, or MORE MELEE MONSTERY than a Bloodthirster, or SWIFTER than a keeper of secrets, and most certainly not a psyker or a flyer, but they are solidly the middle ground unit in between daemon princes and greater daemons. Not sure if that makes them viable, but that's where they stand and why their cost is what it is.

My thinking is that if the plan is to run Heralds for HQ slots, then the Soulgrinder is viable. But it's probably redundant if you have a greater daemon.