Jump to content

Smiling Skulls Space Marines


Guest

Recommended Posts

As an aside, did you notice the change to the Obliterators from the Index to the CSM codex? Their weapons went from assault 2 to assault 4 with no point changes or other changes. Was talking to another CSM player that didn't notice. Have you run any oblits in 8th? Any good?

I'm eyeballing them and mutilators. Seems like a good deepstrike unit that isn't overly complicated. I also like that they are both hereticus astartes Legion Infantry and Mark-able Daemons, means they have strong synergy potential within the chaos index and the CSM codex. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Word Bearers 2k (Everything has Mark of Khorne)

 

Outrider Detachment (+1 CP)

HQ Chaos Lord with Jump Pack (Power Maul + Bolt Pistol) 93+4=97pts

Fast Raptors (5, 2 Bolt Pistol + Chainsword, 1 Bolt Pistol + Chainsword + Icon of Wrath, 1 Plasma Pistol + Chainsword, 1 champion with Power Maul + Plasma Pistol) 85+10+7+4+7=113

Fast Raptors (5, 2 Bolt Pistol + Chainsword, 1 Bolt Pistol + Chainsword + Icon of Wrath, 1 Plasma Pistol + Chainsword, 1 champion with Power Maul + Plasma Pistol) 85+10+7+4+7=113

Fast Raptors (5, 2 Bolt Pistol + Chainsword, 1 Bolt Pistol + Chainsword + Icon of Wrath, 1 Plasma Pistol + Chainsword, 1 champion with Power Maul + Plasma Pistol) 85+10+7+4+7=113

Subtotal 436pts

 

Vanguard Detachment (+1 CP)

HQ Chaos Lord on Juggernaut (Juggernaut's Bladed Horn, Power Maul, Bolt Pistol) 125+10+4=139pts

Elite Decimator (2 Decimator Storm Lasers) 90+50=140pts

Elite Decimator (2 Decimator Storm Lasers) 90+50=140pts

Elite Decimator (2 Decimator Storm Lasers) 90+50=140pts

Subtotal 559

 

Supreme Command Detachment (+1 CP)

HQ Warpsmith (Bolt Pistol, Meltagun, Flamer, Power Axe) 45+17+9+5=76pts

HQ Warpsmith (Bolt Pistol, Meltagun, Flamer, Power Axe) 45+17+9+5=76pts

HQ Warpsmith (Bolt Pistol, Meltagun, Flamer, Power Axe) 45+17+9+5=76pts

Elite Khorne Berzerkers (5, Champion has Power fist) 80+12=92pts

Dedicated Rhino (Combi-Bolter) 70+2=72pts

LoW Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer 470pts

Subtotal 862pts

 

Reserve Points: 143pts

 

Gifts of Chaos -1 CP (1 extra artefact)

 

Total: 2,000pts. 5 CP.

 

Warlord = Juggernaut Lord

Warlord Trait Unholy Fortitude

Artefact 1 on Juggernaut Lord (The Black Mace)

Aretact 2 on Jump Pack Lord (The Cursed Crozius)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basically, army is divided into 4 groups. Jugger Lord is with Decimators, which advance on foot (advancing, base move 8" on the juggerlord, 10" on the decimators). Jump lord is with raptors, which arrive turn 1 from reserve for attempted turn 1 charges. Techmarines join Berzerkers with the rhino, either advancing as an attack unit, or acting as an escort for vehicles. Cerberus is Backfield as it has long range, and largely a destraction, since it can't kill more than 1 unit per turn and is very strong defensively - it's still very strong so will likely draw fire.

Since Characters are required to summon, I felt that including a large number was important. Couldn't fit the bloodthirster in, as reserve or  otherwise. Same with the predator, whose role is largely redundant with the cerberus on the table. Even reserves were chopped down, only allowing me to summon Karanak, a unit of Flesh Hounds, 1-2 units of Bloodletters, or 2 units of Furies. Still, it's a good base with which to expand my army later. 

Decimator Storm Lasers are the cheapest weapon option for decimators. Melee weapons are really expensive for Decimators, Hellbrutes and Contemptors, so I decided that the better route was dual cheap ranged weapons on the quicker walker with the most strength and attacks of the group. Additionally, the Storm Lasers are the only assault weapon on any of the CSM walkers, so they can move very quickly while laying down fire. The Word Bearer Legion trait doesn't benefit single model units, so that was a push towards Decimators over the hellbrute keyword dread options. And Storm Lasers aren't a bad weapon, just not as amazing as the others.

Regarding the lack of Dark Apostles in the Word Bearers army, CSM can't include dark apostles with jump packs, bikes, terminator armor, or even a juggernaut. So I decided that I'd rather just model squad leaders and characters as fallen chaplains (power mauls) rather than actually field any dark apostles. 

Artefacts are currently asigned to obtain even character strength increases. (Black Mace makes the Jugger Lord S8, while the Cursed Crozius makes the jump lord S6). I really like the Cursed Crozius, so I may take a normal Power Maul on the Jump Lord and put the Cursed Crozius on the Jugger Lord (making him only S7). That would free up an artifact which would be used to add the Talisman of Burning Blood to the jump lord, since I really want to make that turn 1 charge.

Bolt Pistols are included on every character for the option to use the Daemon Shell Stratagem (1CP, single shot with bolt weapon, no rerolls allowed, hits inflict D3 mortal wounds on enemy, misses inflict D3 mortal wounds on shooter). Them being pistols means that if I'm locked with a particularly nasty opponent, I can still use this stratagem despite being with 1" of the enemy. I think it's worth including for that extra edge. Plus, bolt pistols are free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the record, I've decided, even if it sucks, that's my list (two posts above) that I'm going to make for CSM this time around (8th). Just looks fun to make and field. Word Bearers too, started reading their fluff, yes, they are perfect for this.

As for models, presently have none of it painted, but I do have lots started (various stages) and most of it ready to paint. Entire list is only 30 models, so should be easy enough to transport and isn't an unrealistic goal to paint. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Where are your points for demon summoning?

 

Never mind. 143 ain't a lot.

Sure isn't. Putting that super heavy in AND having summoning is real balanancing act - both are point sinks that might not pan out. Couldn't afford a psyker, either. I wanted a Missile Launcher on an Infantry unit for that Flakk missile Stratagem, but couldn't fit it. I wanted to have more command points, but that too, is part of the balancing act. 

That said, 143 is enought to get Flesh Hounds or Karanak if I need psychic defence. It's enough to get an extra 10 furies/bloodletters, if I need more infantry. I could also summon a Herald of Khorne if I a Strength boost for my daemons (Decimators and Jugger Lord have thet Daemon keyword, as would characters that become princes through the Chaos Boon Stratagem). 

Additionally, Summoning requires my model to remain stationary in the movement phase, which is not what this list plans to do Turn 1. Anything I hold for summoning is something that won't be on the table until turn 2+, which certainly limits it's value if it's lots of points that aren't helping me for a few turns. 

But at a higher point level game, boosting reserve points is certainly something I need to do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyway, I've got 8th planned pretty ambitiously. Once this is done, I can start painting/working on my Tyranids. Once those are done, I start painting/working on my Tallarn. After that, I can revisit this list and add models.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 4:08 PM, WestRider said:

They don't function like they used to, which bugs a lot of people...

Was putting together those warpsmiths and thinking about this part of your comment. Warpsmiths are the oblits of old, kinda. Lots of weapons, both ranged and melee. And oblits being 65pts each and warpsmiths being 76pts each, they kinda compete for the same role at similar cost. And with no longer any real cap on HQ or elites/heavies in an army...

So I think it was smart of GW to change oblits and mutils to be more distinct from warpsmiths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got a third game in. This time with the above list. Mostly love it.

I was right on the Decimators, they are just what I needed in that role. Need more practice with them, but I like them in their role. They escourted the juggerlord into melee and did fine in melee. Their shooting was good too, against some targets. 

That Cerberus is disgustingly OP in offense. Did 30 wounds in a single shooting attack Vs a Gargantuan Squigoth (it survived that turn). Killed it turn 2 with a second salvo. Destroyed an Ork Flyer turn 3.  Just incredibly destructive shooting potential. 

Raptors seem off. Icons proved useless. We either made the first charge, or failed both charges. That Jump Chaos Lord was also lackluster. Some tweaks are needed on the raptors and I don't think they need the chaos lord's support. Might look into alternate weapon loadouts or switching their Mark so their Icon does something different.

If not for the Cerberus, the obvious MVPs would have the been the Warpsmiths. Just really stoic models with good shooting and a strong presence. 

Berzerkers were another sort of iffy unit. I mean, as escorts to the Warpsmiths, they were perfect, but they didn't really do anymore than normal, cheaper CSM would have been able to do in the same role. Might look into a similar unit to function as escorts for the Warpriests, perhaps Possessed...

Rhino was awesome. Protected a unit, took some damage, retreated to hold an objective, stayed in the fight. Awesome unit. 

Juggerlord is also off. I think he needs a different relic/weapon/warlord trait loadout. Otherwise, he was quite close to perfect. 

Furies were a huge waste. Nothing wrong with the furies, just that the Ork flyer overwatch was surprising strong and they got chewed up very quickly. Ld 6 sucks. For this game, I think having a Skull Cannon as an optional summon would have been ideal. I only  brought the furies, so my options were very limited. 

Oh, I lost the game. Or rather, game was very close, and I called it a win for the opponent since we really didn't have time to finish (he went first and hand an extra turn) and opponent seemed like having the win was much more important to him than to me. I really don't care about winning so this was really fine. Though from a learning perspective, I think this was closer to a tie than a loss. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't give up on berzerkers, they are truly awesome. Declare charges against anything they can charge (for the most part) murder a unit or two pile in and activate again to murder some more. Bring chainaxes and chainswords.

Tougher Unit? Activate Veterans of the Long war for +1 wound.

A ten man unit with VOTLW will statistically put out 6-7 ap1 wounds and 3-4 ap0 wounds to an Imperial Knight. Word Bearers would add another 3-4 ap1. That is on one round of combat, double that if they get to activate twice.

It gets really gross on units of t4 or less.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what veterans of the long war references in this edition.

I did look into my options, and berzerkers are cheaper than I remembered. I could swap with Chosen or Fallen, but will probably keep the berzerkers as is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, CaptainA said:

Don't give up on berzerkers, they are truly awesome. Declare charges against anything they can charge (for the most part) murder a unit or two pile in and activate again to murder some more. Bring chainaxes and chainswords.

Tougher Unit? Activate Veterans of the Long war for +1 wound.

A ten man unit with VOTLW will statistically put out 6-7 ap1 wounds and 3-4 ap0 wounds to an Imperial Knight. Word Bearers would add another 3-4 ap1. That is on one round of combat, double that if they get to activate twice.

It gets really gross on units of t4 or less.

Clever. Thanks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Raptors seem off. Icons proved useless. We either made the first charge, or failed both charges. That Jump Chaos Lord was also lackluster. Some tweaks are needed on the raptors and I don't think they need the chaos lord's support. Might look into alternate weapon loadouts or switching their Mark so their Icon does something different.

 

Juggerlord is also off. I think he needs a different relic/weapon/warlord trait loadout. Otherwise, he was quite close to perfect. 

Okay, so if I switch the Mark of the Raptors from Mark of Khorne to Mark of Nurgle, then their Icons project a 6" bubble of -1 leadership, which works very well with the Cerberus and grants a secondary role for that unit. No cost change here, and those models aren't painted yet. The cost there would be that certain abilities wouldn't work on them, like the bubble from the Jugger lord, which is only Legion Models with the Mark of Khorne.

Another thought is that the reason I took raptors instead of Warp Talons was because I wanted that Khorne Icon for re-rolling charges. If I don't need the icon, why not take warp talons...? I'm paying 130pts for 5 raptors. Warp Talons would be 135pts for a 5-man squad. That would require some conversions/purchases.

EDIT: Fail. Forgot that I dropped the melta guns from my raptors, so they are actually 113pts each. Still might tweak the unit, but they aren't comparable in cost to warp talons.

If I take the Jump Chaos Lord out of escort role for the Raptors, what should I replace it with? Or should I use that HQ slot in another area of the army...hmmm...

Regarding the Juggerlord, tempted to switch to the Murdersword. He's already S5, so it would bump him to S6 (presently using the black Mace which bumps him to S8). Murder sword is denies saves better (-4 vs -2) but does less damage per hit (1 vs 2). Though the ability against a predetermined character is substancial (auto wounds and all wounds are mortal wounds against one character declared at the start of the game). Dunno. Could also just give him paired Lightning Claws, which wouldn't cost an Artefact, but would be +8pts over a Power Maul or Power Sword. More attacks would certainly help this model, as I feel that his meager 4 attacks is low for a Khorne Lord.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On October 23, 2017 at 1:41 PM, paxmiles said:

 

Vanguard Detachment (+1 CP)

HQ Chaos Lord on Juggernaut (Juggernaut's Bladed Horn, Power Maul, Bolt Pistol) 125+10+4=139pts

Elite Decimator (2 Decimator Storm Lasers) 90+50=140pts

Elite Decimator (2 Decimator Storm Lasers) 90+50=140pts

Elite Decimator (2 Decimator Storm Lasers) 90+50=140pts

 

Tinkering with list tweaks. Occurs to me that nothing in this detachment actually benefits from the Legion Trait, so I could add Chaos Daemons to this detachment at no penalty as far as I can tell. Models should still remain Word Bearers models, they just won't benefit from the Legion Trait (which only applies to hellbrutes, Daemonprinces infantry and bikers). Juggerlord, which is the warlord, can still take an artifact, since the requirement on those is per the faction of the warlord, not the faction of the warlord's detachment. Access to stratagems is determined by merely having "a" CSM detachment, not in them all being one. Facinating.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On October 26, 2017 at 9:03 AM, CaptainA said:

A ten man unit with VOTLW will statistically put out 6-7 ap1 wounds and 3-4 ap0 wounds to an Imperial Knight. Word Bearers would add another 3-4 ap1. That is on one round of combat, double that if they get to activate twice.

Oh, been meaning to mention this, it's Word Bearers, not World Eaters.

World Eaters are the ones that get extra swings in melee, Word Bearers just get re-rolls to morale checks. I can certainly see the confusion since I'm going Khorne heavy. So, despite the Khorne lean, I'm not actually restricted from fielding other dieties' worshippers in my army.

Berzerkers are often world eaters exclusive in the past, but that's one of the big changes in the CSM codex and the chaos index, this time around, is that we can field cult troops in other legions. Under 8e rules, I can field Word Bearer Berzerkers alongside Word Bearer Rubric Marines while within the same detachment. 

CSM Daemon summon options are based on the Mark of the Character doing the summoning. It's not a psychic power anymore. So with only Khorne characters, I can only summon khorne daemons. 

There's even a stratagem where I leave a model markless, and then during the game I spend 1 CP to give them a Mark. For a faction like Word Bearers, it means I can have a single character that summons Plaguebearers if I need durable troops and Bloodletters/daemonettes if I need melee infantry, or otherwise adapts their summons to the opponent. The downside is that it means bringing a bucket of extra models, which is why I'm mono-deity right now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm...any reason I can't mix Chaos Marks on models in a single transport? 

I'm not seeing a rule against, but it gives me pause. Just thinking that I've already got 3 Warpsmiths in that Rhino, having a mix of marks would grant me variety in my summoning options. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was talking with Max at GG about those books I'm waiting on (FW indexes for chaos, bugs, and guard being shipped from the UK over "13 working days"), and he mentioned that the FW guard book includes rules for guard to have the chaos faction. Thumbing through the Index I do have for bugs, I notice that I can field guard with the tyranid faction too, as genestealer cults. So, rather than making my Tallarn force, I may end up just splitting them between my Chaos and Tyranids. One less army project to worry about, even if the same models still need painting, but it means I don't need to buy other models to make that force work. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...