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Nurgle Plague Tower, looking for help on stats.


peter.cosgrove

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Ok. This is an ongoing long term project thing. This is the second one I have made, the first one got crushed during moving and stuff.5a12cd5b9a77c_NurglePlagueTower.thumb.jpg.d6473f0a5ac626cade06b93fc300e190.jpg

Been going through some old Apocalypse books to find parity with 8E. Found some things that could be used as data points.

Baneblade (obviously), Warhound Scout Titan, Revenant Titan, Hierophant Bio-Titan, Thunderhawk Gunship

The original stats had a 6" movement, 6 structure points, Transport capacity for 30, 10 fire-points, BS 3, FA 14. 

Special rules: Nurgle Infestation, assaulting units suffer 3D6 S3 hits at I3, Explosion of Filth, On destruction Models within 2D6 are hit with explosion damage, Models with Mark of Nurgle, Nurgle Daemons etc are immune.

Weapons:

Pus Cannon, Hellstorm template S7 AP3, Heavy 1

2x Demolisher Cannon 24" S10 AP2, Ordnance 1 Blast 

Plague Mortar 24-72" S7 AP 3, Ordnance Barrage 7" Blast Template

Looking for suggestions on possible 8E stats

 

 

 

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 So take the build a land raider but start with an Astra Militarum stormlord chassis. Use guard points for weapons as appropriate cuz of the bs3.  Charge it like 5 pts for a 3d6 gun that follows the heavy bolter/ heavy flamer rules under steel behemoth for the nurglings at str 3, for the explosion give it it's own strategem! Normal explosion as chassis 1cp auto explode as per death guard, or a 2cp option where it blows but doesn't hurt nurgle marked stuff. 

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What about wounds/firepoints. The baneblades all have 3 structure points, the Nurgle Plague Tower has 6. There is the Plagueburst Crawler which has essentially the same weapon set.

The Thunderhawk Gunship has a transport capacity of 30, 200 more old-school Apoc points than the Nurgle Plague Tower, only 3 structure points, a significant more weapons, and bombs.. lots of bombs.

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Just a thought, why not "rebrand" this as an Aquilla Strongpoint with Macro-cannon? Or a Firststorm Redoubt with 2 Battle Cannons? You have a really slow transport anyway... Could just make it immobile and use existing rules. 

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4 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

 So take the build a land raider but start with an Astra Militarum stormlord chassis. Use guard points for weapons as appropriate cuz of the bs3.  Charge it like 5 pts for a 3d6 gun that follows the heavy bolter/ heavy flamer rules under steel behemoth for the nurglings at str 3, for the explosion give it it's own strategem! Normal explosion as chassis 1cp auto explode as per death guard, or a 2cp option where it blows but doesn't hurt nurgle marked stuff. 

Once I figured out what you were saying and went through and looked at it your multiple suggestions are VERY VERY good. What do you think about crossmatching the plagueburst crawler to the stormlord?

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Just wondering, is this for that black friday apoc game? If so, I strongly suggest doing counts as. Apoc get's really bogged down with normal rules, so custom models with untested rules seems like a mistake. Could try it anyway, and might be fine. Just a suggestion. 

In terms of giving it fresh rules, I suggest Adding the price of a Hellhound, 2 Vindicators, a Chaos Bastion, and a Wyvern. I'd give it the CHAOS, TITANIC, DAEMON, DAEMON ENGINE, VEHICLE and NURGLE keywords, but not Deathguard (it isn't an astates vehicle, mutated or otherwise). I'd use the Chaos Bastion for Toughness and transport capacity, fire points, and the ability to shoot while engaged. I'd give it a 4+ armor save (and 5+ Daemonic invulnerable save). For weapons, I'd take 2 Demolisher Cannons, 1 Inferno Cannon, 6 Heavy Bolters, and a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar. For wounds, I'd give it half of the total wounds for the hellhound+vindicators+bastion+wyvern, which should be around 40 wounds. BS start at 4+ and Speed at 6" but both would degrade, as would attacks and WS (WS and attacks start at the highest of any of the mentioned vehicles). I wouldn't give it disgustingly resilent, or if I did, I'd reduce the armor save to 6+. Regarding degrading, everything get's worse by 1 step at half wounds, and at 1 quarter wounds. 

 

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41 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said:

Once I figured out what you were saying and went through and looked at it your multiple suggestions are VERY VERY good. What do you think about crossmatching the plagueburst crawler to the stormlord?

I don't have the death guard book so haven't looked too close but using some of those weapon points seems totally legit. For differences I'd almost say give it bs 4 and just pay death guard points for all the weapons. I think I'm going to love the build a land raider template for super heavy tanks... I totally want to bring back the plague reaper and just use the acheron flame cannon (forge world knight variant weapon) for the pus cannon. 18" heavy 2d6 str7 AP -2 damage 3 auto hits. 

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3 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

I don't have the death guard book so haven't looked too close but using some of those weapon points seems totally legit. For differences I'd almost say give it bs 4 and just pay death guard points for all the weapons. I think I'm going to love the build a land raider template for super heavy tanks... I totally want to bring back the plague reaper and just use the acheron flame cannon (forge world knight variant weapon) for the pus cannon. 18" heavy 2d6 str7 AP -2 damage 3 auto hits. 

The points don't adjust for lower BS, as far as I know. Those Traitor Guard pay the same cost for their heavy weapons as the AM do, but the traitor guard have BS 5+. 

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1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Just wondering, is this for that black friday apoc game? If so, I strongly suggest doing counts as. Apoc get's really bogged down with normal rules, so custom models with untested rules seems like a mistake. Could try it anyway, and might be fine. Just a suggestion. 

In terms of giving it fresh rules, I suggest Adding the price of a Hellhound, 2 Vindicators, a Chaos Bastion, and a Wyvern. I'd give it the CHAOS, TITANIC, DAEMON, DAEMON ENGINE, VEHICLE and NURGLE keywords, but not Deathguard (it isn't an astates vehicle, mutated or otherwise). I'd use the Chaos Bastion for Toughness and transport capacity, fire points, and the ability to shoot while engaged. I'd give it a 4+ armor save (and 5+ Daemonic invulnerable save). For weapons, I'd take 2 Demolisher Cannons, 1 Inferno Cannon, 6 Heavy Bolters, and a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar. For wounds, I'd give it half of the total wounds for the hellhound+vindicators+bastion+wyvern, which should be around 40 wounds. BS start at 4+ and Speed at 6" but both would degrade, as would attacks and WS (WS and attacks start at the highest of any of the mentioned vehicles). I wouldn't give it disgustingly resilent, or if I did, I'd reduce the armor save to 6+. Regarding degrading, everything get's worse by 1 step at half wounds, and at 1 quarter wounds. 

 

I don't think I am looking at making up stuff. I would like to use rules that have a direct comparison between the original apoc books I have and current rules. The weapons are exactly the same as the Plagueburst Crawler which doesn't have a direct comparison but at least the weapons are the same.

Actually.. 40 wounds at a 4+ seems better than 32 wounds at a 3+. It is petrified wood. I was thinking that 36 wounds would be better, more aligned to the Gargantuan Squiggoth but the point value is going to be  higher than the squiggoth.

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4 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

 

The points don't adjust for lower BS, as far as I know. Those Traitor Guard pay the same cost for their heavy weapons as the AM do, but the traitor guard have BS 5+. 

 Nope the units they take from the other are bs4... nothing says to reduce or change stats. Technically it says if it isn't on the list you can't take it but I know West wouldn't try and munchkin interactions. 

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Just now, peter.cosgrove said:

I don't think I am looking at making up stuff. I would like to use rules that have a direct comparison between the original apoc books I have and current rules. The weapons are exactly the same as the Plagueburst Crawler which doesn't have a direct comparison but at least the weapons are the same.

You are taking existing units and giving them new weapons/factions/keywords and suggesting that this isn't making stuff up...

Counts as would be the way to adhere to current rules. Taking a collage of current rules from lots of models is making stuff up. 

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2 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

 pax brings up a good point on faction interactions... use the renegades and heretics rules! Effectively it is <regiment>,  renegades and heretics. Gets chaos instead of imperial no other faction key word stuff. 

I thought about that, but Renegade and heritic rules can't include any of the super heavy transports. Might be an oversight. 

Plus the traitor guard rules wouldn't allow anything transported other than traitor guard. That's why I suggested the building rules, since those allow any models, anyway. 

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6 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said:

I don't think I am looking at making up stuff. I would like to use rules that have a direct comparison between the original apoc books I have and current rules. The weapons are exactly the same as the Plagueburst Crawler which doesn't have a direct comparison but at least the weapons are the same.

Chapter approved is gonna have a build a land raider thing... like space wolves can take frost stuff... check that out then apply it to Astra super heavy chassis...

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1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

You are taking existing units and giving them new weapons/factions/keywords and suggesting that this isn't making stuff up...

Counts as would be the way to adhere to current rules. Taking a collage of current rules from lots of models is making stuff up. 

I haven't done anything yet. I am still looking at stuff. What I was hoping for was to look at the weapons and find the equivalent. There are no more blast templates. So what's the new thing that looks like the old thing in stats.

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2 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

 Nope the units they take from the other are bs4... nothing says to reduce our change stats. Technically it says if it isn't on the list you can't take it but I know West wouldn't try and munchkin interactions. 

Correct. The AM datasheets aren't adjusted, but those renegade heavy weapon teams are stuck at BS5+ and the traitor guard inventory has no point difference for their heavy weapons. 

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Just now, peter.cosgrove said:

I haven't done anything yet. I am still looking at stuff. What I was hoping for was to look at the weapons and find the equivalent. There are no more blast templates. So what's the new thing that looks like the old thing in stats.

Blast weapons appear as d6 or d3 for small/large blasts. Strong weapons with templates will often include a rule where they get more shots against targets with 10+ models. Demolisher cannon, for example, was large blast last edition, but is now heavy d3 with heavy d6 if the target has 10 or more models. Frag missiles are now heavy d6. Apocalypse blast templates go up around 2d6-4d6 shots. Haven't seen anything with more than 4d6 shots. 

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4 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said:

I haven't done anything yet. I am still looking at stuff. What I was hoping for was to look at the weapons and find the equivalent. There are no more blast templates. So what's the new thing that looks like the old thing in stats.

 multiple d6 or d3... I provided a previously hellstorm template weapon above. 

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