Thinking about taking the plunge...

[fingolfen]

I played a little original Warhammer back in the day, but was never impressed with Sigmar... largely because I was a Bretonnian and undead fan, and loved the massed ranks...

That being said, I went by the new Warhammer store in Hillsboro today and saw some of the new undead releases for Sigmar, and I'll be danged if they don't look pretty good...  Almost good enough to make me want to dip my toe back in...

For someone wanting to get in starting with the death armies - thoughts?  I sort of liked the Skeletons starter set and the Malignants starter set...

[Guest]

Death is fun and the army rules are solid for AoS. 

The main difference between AoS and old warhammer, from an undead standpoint, is that you need less models. This is because old warhammer, you could just summon new units whenever. In AoS, newly summoned units require having set points aside from list creation with which to summon. So with old warhammer, undead players needed 2-3 times their army in spare models for summoning, but for AoS 2k army is all a 2k army needs. 

So from a collecting standpoint, AoS is kinder to the death players than warhammer was. 

Other considerations are a general lack of shooting units in the base Death Armies. The "Legacy" tomb kings are legal and have range, but good luck finding their models and I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't legal whenever AoS gives us a new edition. No shooting isn't a huge loss, but it will affect your tactical options, especially given that AoS allows units to fire into/out of melee without penalty.

Since summoning still requires points, it's role changed, and now there are 3 or so, reason to use summoning. 1st, summoned units do not have to be selected ahead of time, so you can use summon to choose units when they arrive, granting you tactical flexibility. 2nd, Summoned units do not count towards army creation limits, so on the one hand, they won't meet minimum requirements, but on the other hand, you can use summoning to exceed the maximums. 3rd, a good chunk of undead are really slow, and you can use summoning to "sling shot" undead units downfield - this is especially practical if your wizard is able to fly or is mounted, as you can get really get downfield, and then summon. And units can charge after being summoned.

If you do get into Death, should take a peak at the ally rules in General's Handbook 2017. Basically, you'll likely want to take one of the subfactions of death (like Deathrattle), and the ally rules allow about 20% of your army to ignore the subfaction requirement without penalty. This really helps fill the gaps in subfactions that lack certain types of units. In example, Deathrattle has no wizards...so prior to that general's handbook 2017, fielding an exclusively deathrattle army meant no wizards.

I will also note that Nagash is perfectly legal to bring, but most opponents won't be happy facing him in casual play, and may even not want to play with you at all...He's just really, really strong for casual play. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

I was reading Legacy Armies/Models will be taken out of Matched Play, but still be allowed in Non Matched.

I think ot was in one of the recent WHC posts about recast metal. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

"Warhammer Legends will be the new home of rules for classic and fan-favourite miniatures. While not intended for matched play, they’ll still be great for anyone looking to forge epic narratives or who wants to see how the heroes of yesteryear fare against the newer champions from the Age of Sigmar."

[fingolfen]

What's the easiest way to get ahold of the main game rules at this point?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, fingolfen said:

What's the easiest way to get ahold of the main game rules at this point?

You mean the 4 page rulebook? It's free on the website, and it also printed in the back of every army book. Advanced rules for list creation are found in the General's Handbook 2017, which is not free, and costs a nasty $35 for what is basically 10 pages of FAQ updates. And despite the high cost, you can probably find a free copy on the internet with a simple google search...

Points best found via the GW army builder. Doesn't check for rules violations well, but does list points. Hmm, here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/ 

[fingolfen]

I read through that... Didn't seem to be enough to actually play the game... 40K is more streamlined these days, but it's still over 100 pages... I'd assumed that Sigmar had an equivalent as I'd seen something about a 96 page book somewhere... Unless all the actual rules on how to play are in the lists and faction books...

[WestRider]

1 hour ago, fingolfen said:

I read through that... Didn't seem to be enough to actually play the game... 40K is more streamlined these days, but it's still over 100 pages... I'd assumed that Sigmar had an equivalent as I'd seen something about a 96 page book somewhere... Unless all the actual rules on how to play are in the lists and faction books...

An amazing amount actually is on the Warscrolls and in the BattleTomes. The main book you're going to want, tho, is The General's Handbook. It's got points values (maybe just for things that don't have a BattleTome, I haven't looked at it in a while), Scenarios, extra Rules for Matched Play. It's really what you're going to think of as the main rulebook if you're coming from basically any other system. There is a new edition of it out every summer, but it's only $35, and the yearly updates are based on feedback from players and TOs, so it's a pretty reasonable annual investment.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Following up on @WestRider's comment abut summer release. It may be worth holdin off and seeing if GHB2 is only additional stuff, or if it includes "everything" from GHB.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, WestRider said:

There is a new edition of it out every summer, but it's only $35, and the yearly updates are based on feedback from players and TOs, so it's a pretty reasonable annual investment.

Well, the first one was $25, this one is $35, so logically, the next one will be $45. 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, fingolfen said:

I read through that... Didn't seem to be enough to actually play the game... 40K is more streamlined these days, but it's still over 100 pages... I'd assumed that Sigmar had an equivalent as I'd seen something about a 96 page book somewhere... Unless all the actual rules on how to play are in the lists and faction books...

Well, 40k has only a 12 page rulebook. And that includes pages that are only examples of play. The other "rules" pages in that fat CRB are just mission rules, regarding list creation variants, and terrain rules. And, honestly, I've had more fun in games that ditch the "advanced" terrain rules and just use the 12 page rulebook. 

The 4 page rulebook was a complaint of many in the switch from fantasy to AoS, but it's actually proven very useful to have a succinct set of rules that are easy to find and look up. And then each unit in your army has another half page of rules, the alliegence has another page or so, the battle and command traits are another page or two, and the relics/artefacts are another page or so. So at 2k, you still have about 20-40 pages of information to keep track of, it's just not all in the rulebook.

[fingolfen]

Thanks all - much appreciated.