Jump to content

Data Entry - An attempt at a blog thing


dataentity

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, dataentity said:

Took my whole turn just FO'ing and flashing a single line Kazak, before finishing it off with a marksmanship boosted red fury.

Puppets sound fun...

The profile on Mrkship level 1 AP Mrksman rifle looks good ignores cover, halves armor and Shock...

But how'd you get a marksmanship boosted red fury

1 hour ago, dataentity said:

Spektr was an adequately difficult road block that could do objectives. Need to do more experimentation with them.

KDH/Cybermines FTW

Why? I'm glad you asked! 🤓💩

Cyber Mines  2 BTS vs Dam 15 at -3... 

Vs. HI is lovely "you can stop moving now good sir!"

Or Vs. A pain train ouch "..Hold please.." 

Vs. Hackers is where it shines if you stick around the Mine, Re-camo.

This Load-Out creates particularly nasty "Bad Decisions" because of Wound Inflicting Hacking it can be a Death Sentence  to any Hacker  that comes into the area. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree... I think we should be able to Rev-Up the little guys and if you know that you're playing in here opponent agrees then whatever... I think if you played me we could agree on something before the game... 

I also think they could have a skill each. FO/Sniffer/Repeater would have been good and 1.5 is too much for red fury... 

But it's a new unit and as we all know these things evolve as the game changes and moves into new versions

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I've been having the itch to play Tohaa again. Haven't played since December and before they buffed Aelis to something playable. I've also just been wanting to play a Gorgos and I'm not sure why. So, brewing limited insertion list. Tohaa, the way I build lists always ends up 12 or so orders. Probably should use Kamaels more and try a high order list (what better army?) but having those tough models is just so nice.

Anyway, the brewed list:

logo_801.png Tohaa
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  orden_impetuosa.png2
logo_6.pngGORGOS Squad Chaksa Peripheral B . (2 | 82)
 sep.giflogo_6.pngGORGOS AP Spitfire, Flammenspeer, Pulzar +1 Chaksa Peripheral B / Shock CCW. (2 | 82)
 sep.giflogo_6_2.pngCHAKSA PERIPHERAL B Pulzar / Pistol, Knife. (4)
logo_24.pngSUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
logo_14.pngHATAIL AELIS KEESAN K1 Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
logo_8.pngMAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
logo_15.pngNIKOUL Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
logo_20.pngKAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
logo_20.pngKAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioBombs / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
logo_8.pngMAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
logo_7.pngCLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
logo_17.pngRASAIL Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle + 1 Chaksa Peripheral / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
 sep.giflogo_17.pngCHAKSA PERIPHERAL Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (- | 4)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So write up for week 5. Mission was Checklist. Objective points for: 

  1. Do a coordinated Order
  2. Discover a marker
  3. Kill with a surprise shot
  4. Doctor/Paramedic a model
  5. Pass a guts check
  6. Use your lieutenant order
  7. Kill with Extreme Prejudice aka coup de grace
  8. Run a hacking program
  9. Lay a mine, repeater, drop bear, sniffer
  10. Kill the Lieutenant

List was, in hindsight, extremely mean. I just saw 'use Lieutenant Order' and 'Kill the Lieutenant' and I thought of the Kriza. Who better in the list to use the Lieutenant Order?

logo_504.png Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png9  orden_irregular.png1  
logo_1.pngSECURITATE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
logo_5.pngKRIZA BORAC Lieutenant HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)
logo_11.pngMARY PROBLEMS Hacker (Forward Deployment L1) Submachine Gun + Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_27.pngWARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
logo_8.pngSPEKTR Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

3.5 SWC | 200 Points

Open in Infinity Army

I played against PaladinX's JSA. Of note in this list were the Daiyoukai, Saito Togan (I thought it was an Oniwaban, which led to some confusion discussing this game when talking to Exile and Raindog), ODD SMG Ryuken-9 and Yuriko Oda with some 6 Keisotsu. 1 of the Keisotsu had an HMG but were otherwise combi rifles if I recall correctly.

I won the WIP off, picking first turn. Deployed first, with the HMG Securitate providing ARO shots on my left side on a building, Warcor was lying down in an ARO spot on a box, everyone else relatively safe. Kriza was hold back and was able to placed more aggressively given the JSA deployment.

Round 1 active turn had the Kriza pushing up. First, for the objective points, Kriza coordinates with the Transductor. Move, drop sniffer. Then, Kriza confronted the Keisotsu with HMG. The Keisotsu did not last even with 5-person link bonus. Then, Mr. Boracs turned the corner a bit more for the Ryuken-9. He dakka'd at the Ryuken-9 and discovered the mine from the minelayer. Took a few orders to beat the Ryuken-9 because ODD + cover, but the weight of 5 dice is pretty good. From there, I revealed the Spektre who did a long range shot to get my surprise shot kill on a model.

Kriza then kept stomp stomping forward to face the Daiyoukai. Yeeeaaah, I felt bad here. One order, 5 HMG shots to a whiffed panzerfaust from the Daiyoukai = 1 dead dead dead Daiyoukai (I'm sorry). With my last couple of orders, I squeezed the Kriza into a corner behind cover and put my Spectre back into camo.

Bottom of round 1, it's surprise Saito! Rather, surprise TO camo token. PaladinX decided to climb onto the box that the Kriza was hiding behind, to then be able to walk down some steps and stab the Kriza in the back. After the first order, climb, my Securitate from across the board and then my Warcor can see due to the elevated position. Both fail the discover. Second order, Saito walks into melee with the Kriza. PaladinX picked Martial Arts level 3 to try and put the Kriza at the worst chance back. I'm not very familiar with JSA, otherwise at the time I would have recommended for him to use level 4 because more dice is always good. My ARO back was free shots from the Warcor and the Securitate HMG, which were allowed due to Saito being revealed. Kriza, despite being stabbed in the back, gains line of sight once in to base to base. So the Kriza is at -12 from TO, martial arts, and Surprise attack if he shoots his pistol meaning he hits on 1, but does put Saito at -3 due to full auto. He's at -9 to close combat from surprise and martial arts, leaving him hitting on a 9. Or, he can dodge on -9, looking for a 5; probably my worst option. While he's most likely to succeed on a close combat with 9's, I elected for shooting his heavy pistol to impose the -3 on Saito. Kriza whiffs (because 1's). Saito crits, unsurprisingly, with his EXP CCW. Kriza is now down to 1 wound with 2 armor saves to go. With armor 5, he's able to pass.

With my Kriza miraculously surviving, the Warcor flash pulses. Miss. Securitate hits both shots from his ARO aaaaand Saito is dead.

Without many options left, Yuriko led a 5-member Keisotsu link up. Yuriko drops a couple of mines to try and corral the Kriza, breaks out one of the Keisotsu to put it into suppressive, but otherwise there was no further fighting.

Top of turn 2, the Spektre goes to work. He slices the pie to start picking off Keisotsu. The low BTS of JSA vs the TO and cover, the Spektre comfortably shotguns two of them down, including putting down a mine for the suppressive Keisotsu before fighting. Yuriko survives and backs away but the template from the shotgun KOs another Keisotsu. Yuriko moving prevented the Spektre from further fighting as Yuriko moving allowed one of the mines to see him. The Kriza stepped out to threaten Yuriko and triggering the two mines. Yuriko dodges, so the Kriza dodges and passes. Spektre goes to work again to shotgun down Yuriko, the template hits another Keisotsu. That Keisotsu survives. I don't have enough orders left ot kill the Keisotsu and then coup de grace, so I look for orders elsewhere and have Mary go into cybermask.

At this point, there were only 2 Keisotsu left, so we called the game to an end.

Tallying things up, I had coordinated order, discover, surprise shot, lieutenant order, hacking program, killed lieutenant, and dropped equipment. I could not guts check, doctor/paramedic anything, or coup de grace. PaladinX I believe had coordinated, guts, lieutenant order, and mined. Final score 7-4.

 

I'd like to apologize again. That game was really brutal.

Lessons:

I learned about leveraging the advantage of TO. Previous game I played was my first Spektre match, this now being my second. Having really only used mimetism and, rarely, camo in previous games, the options and survivability it gives are really good. Spend more orders for the extra surprise shot or just go and fight? Drop a mine down before fighting for the double threat? I've rarely used the Clipsos even when I was playing Tohaa (and I should use them more).

It was a refresher on use of the Kriza. It's been a while. He is a monster. He's nearly as good as a Szalamandra at killing, with the same shots with HMG vs HRMC and just losing the multi parts like AP, and is nearly as survivable given the -3 in basically all face-to-face rolls which I'd say is comparable to the 3 armor the Szally has. At the same time, Kriza is smaller so is easier to hide and get cover and is also nearly 40 points cheaper on the HMG.

Otherwise, it was to really think about where the opponent's infiltrators are going to be. I should have thought better where Saito or an Oniwaban, or a Ninja could have been. A Ninja assault hacker would have ruined the Kriza's day pretty quick. An Oniwaban with monofilament would also have put an end to the Kriza train fast.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Warning: Overly wordy post because two game write-ups, and I don't see a way of hiding them to make the post smaller. There is a final thoughts thing at the end that, for my own sake, is fairly important looking back at the games today. If anyone wants to read that part, I bolded the start of each section.

 

Oookay, double games tonight.

Same list as last week.

Mission: 5 consoles in X formation in neutral zone. Anyone can push the buttons, specialists get 2 dice. Control more consoles and you win. 200 point lists.

Game one was against Exile's OSS. It went as you'd expect if you know him.

Lost WIP off so got deployment. Securitate link on my right. Kriza, Mary on the left of my deployment with the Spektre a bit further up on the left next to the button. Transductor hiding. Warcor up high to flash pulse things. As Exile told me after the game, I really hurt my chances of winning during deployment. Since I was going second, I hid pretty much everything but the Warcor. I should have left at least another ARO up as it left a free lane for Exile to walk up and get into good range. My other mistake was that I wasn't careful with my Spektre deployment. Where he would end up revealing was right in the face of Exile's Dakini multi sniper, which wasted another order. Deployment is probably the weakest part of my play. I just put things wherever that seems to kind of work for me, but I don't consider the opponent's potential attack vectors. Anyway, onto actual game for more context.

Exile's turn 1 highlights. Proxy mk 5 FO pushes up that open lane on my right and is free to get into super close range for the SMGs to make me sad. Ends up knocking out 4 of my Securitates, including the HMG. Last Securitate lives somehow. Other then that, a Naga pushes a button and recamos.

My turn 1, down 4 orders. Spektre reveals where I thought was safe. I did not check the view lanes under the piece of terrain which basically resulted in realizing that the Dakini is staring him in the face if he drops camo. So the order is spent backing up into safety. Second order to then push the button. Kriza then spends the rest of my orders this turn. He pushes out and guns down the Dakini multisniper (should have done this first), then goes on to KO the Proxy mk 5. Second proxy is still hidden and I know it's the TO infiltrator. I then try and get the Kriza back into relative safety and my turn is done. I didn't have the orders to put the Spektre back into cover.

Round 2, camo tokens move up. Naga reveals again to put down a camo marker (definitely not a mine) next to the Spektre. Then, Dart comes around and shoots the Spektre with her SMG. Spektre becomes The One and crit dodges (which, incidentally, was the same number for the mine and for dodging Dart). PH 12 on Spektres feels weird. Another naga also pushes another button. At some point my Warcor dies (I forgot how).

Bottom of 2, Spektre pushes his luck to try and kill Dart. Between active turn burst and TO, should be okay right? Nope, he get's punked and is dead. Kriza then tries to do Kriza things. He walks out to try and duel the Naga. Exile miscalculates and tries to double ARO back by revealing his TO sniper proxy. However, terrain was actually in the way. Sooo woops. Kriza shoots the Naga and the Matrix happens again where both the Kriza and the Naga crit, shooting each other's bullets out of the air. We fight again, Kriza puts the Naga into dogged. Kriza then pushes further up expecting one last duel with the Naga, but the Naga poops out a mine instead. So free to ignore that Naga, Kriza keeps walking to then out dice the TO Sniper Proxy. With only one order left, Kriza goes into suppressive.

Top of 3, made me realize I should have asked which Dart was brought. Spec fire E/M grenade on the Kriza and the Kriza is out. Dart then backs up to push the middle button and remaining Naga takes the single button I pushed.

Bottom of 3, I'm in Loss of Lieutenant. 2 irregular orders and a regular (surviving Securitate is veteran so ignores LoL). Only Mary is left to really be able to do anything (I've already lost at this point). Mary walks out to duel the Naga. Naga, instead of fighting, poops out a mine before dying to shock. Mary tries to keep advancing on the objective, tries to dodge the mine and fails.

Game ends 0-4, for a game loss.

Game two was against Inquisitor66's Yu Jing. Highlights in the list were Sun Tze and a Su Jian spitfire.

Lost the Lieutenant roll. Inquisitor66 elects for deployment, so I get first turn.

Unfortunately, with Sun Tze, I could not counter deploy either Mary or Kriza to take on the Su Jian. The Su Jian ended up on the opposite end of the table from where those two were. Again, need to work on deployment. I should have spread out my good-anti-HI units, knowing that he was playing Yu Jing. I even put the Transductor near-ish Mary. Again, should have spread them out better.

Anyway, turn 1. Kriza does Kriza things. He stomps up, pushes the near left button and then goes full Ork and uses his Big Shoota to knock out 2 Zhanshi and works at Xi Zhuang. It took a few extra orders to kill Xi Zhuang who survived two seperate attempts on his life, allowing him to hide further behind the corner. Kriza then has to take the long route around a building to avoid the Madtraps. During his long trek, he kills another Zhanshi before finally killing Xi Zhuang.

My reactive turn has the Su Jian move up, kill a Securitate, and then everyone else drops into suppressive fire. I didn't realize it very early on, but it was a 8 + 1 strategos order list. So knocking out those 4 orders really hampered the ability for the Su Jian to rambo me. During this, my Warcor is killed.

Turn 2, with the Kriza very out of the way, this left me using my Spektr. The Spektr moves from his spot in the middle of the board. Pushes the near right button safely. He recamos and goes on a trip around a building to get into the Su Jian's back arc. I relied on everyone being in suppressive to not have anyone discover him while he just moved past the Zhanshi (or was it a Celestial Guard?) to not be discovered. My plan works and the Spektr gets into close range with the Su Jian. Spektr gets the surprise AP Boarding shotgun to the back off and takes a structure off the Su Jian. Despite hitting on 18's, one of the shots still miss. You had one job.

Bottom of 2 has the Su Jian backing away from the Spektr, who, instead of shooting back at the Su Jian, drops a mine. Unfortunately, they don't continue to fight, and the Su Jian pushes up to try and kill my Securitates. Along the way, the Su Jian failed to push a button, but Inquisitor66 neglects to try again. A lot of fire fighting happened which resulted in no Securitates dying and one of them engaging the Su Jian, who has taken a wound.

Turn 3, I try something fancy and get more Securitates into engagement with the Su Jian. Only was able to get one extra, resulting in Securitates fighting on CC13, B2 against the Su Jian's CC16. Su Jian wins and my HMG Securitate (who was the one engaging) dies. Giving up on that plan, my Spektr goes back around the building to push the far right button. With my last couple of orders, my Kriza tries to get back to a button to push, but doesn't have enough to get there. He only ends up smoking a Celestial Guard that was in suppressive.

Bottom of turn 3, Inquisitor66 goes for objective points. Only possibility was to contest the button my spektr was next to. Spektr drops a mine instead of fighting the Zhanshi. Spektr is KO'd. Zhanshi dodges the mine on the way to the button and succeeds in pushing it.

Game ends 2-1, victory for me.

Lessons for the day:

Deployment I need to work on. Already discussed. Need to think about how the opponent is going to play, not just stick things where they might be convenient for me.

Something else I need to try with my list building. I've found that the way I'm building lists is that I find a key piece (Kriza. Hollow men. Szalamandra.) then try to build around it. I try to get the order count up, and then try to patch holes (Like building an EDH deck for M:tG). I should try lists such as how Exile appears (from my side) to build. Every piece has a specific job and is good at it. It doesn't need to be super amazing (like the Kriza is extremely good at killing) because to be that super amazing costs a lot of points. I rely on fireteams probably too much to do the patching, which limits my ability to be spread out across the board. I'm bringing Securitates for the sake of just filling out the fireteam and getting orders. Fireteams, while scary, also limited the board control. The power is concentrated into a smaller area, so the opponent doesn't have to take as much time, as many orders trying to push out. Against Exile, I didn't even get out of my deployment zone, really.

The spread of nagas and/or Dart able to move up is very good for establishing a board position that can be hard to break out of. Of course, Tunguska has a hard time with that. Everything is elite. There aren't those super cost efficient low-mid cost pieces like Nagas. There aren't Proxys. Closest equivalents to a Naga are Spektrs. Spektrs are 4 points more for an equivalent profile (28 vs 32 for FO's). TO vs Dogged. Same BS. Same WIP.  Heck, most of the stats are actually the same. Not a bad comparison now that I'm looking at it closer. And when theory crafting lists for OSS and Aleph, I didn't hesitate to just take Nagas. Why have I not been using Spektrs more? Maybe I was just too used to Zeroes when I was playing vanilla, who are absurdly good. 13 points cheaper for that FO profile. Yes, it's not as good, but 13 points is a lot of savings.

Looking back, this might have been why I was better with Tohaa. Besides Tohaa just being on the strong side of things, just the natural way a Tohaa list is built, there is no over reliance on one thing. Yes, there are gun fighters. But then they will naturally have a specialist there too. Everything worked smoothly together and, with as many fireteams Tohaa has, spreading out wasn't a problem. When I first switched to Nomads, I explicitly stated that I was doing it so that I could play big stompy things like the Kriza, the Taskmaster, the Szalamandra, etc. Tohaa doesn't really have that, which is why i wanted to try Nomads. Ectros don't have that raw power behind them like a Kriza does. The Gorgos doesn't really compete with a Szalamandra in firepower. Yes, they have other benefits (Triads for Ectros. Gorgos has the Auxbot buddy), but they just don't punch face as hard as, say, the Nomads stuff does.

So yeah. Need to re-examine how lists are built. There's no 'wrong' way to build a list, but it's definitely worth exploring other styles.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All caught up now.. Thanks for the batreps man. 

 

10 hours ago, dataentity said:

Why have I not been using Spektrs more?

You spoke about using your specters more in some previous entries like experimenting with them and after reading the battle reports... I think you don't use the other models as much because you Rambo very hard with your Kriza... This is just from reading maybe I'm missing something.

10 hours ago, dataentity said:

I should have asked which Dart was brought. 

PH13-E/M nades there really is only one Dart choice...

I'm wondering when you're going to put that Hollow man full fireteam on the board? Moving over the terrain like grasshoppers... 

I look forward to your next battle report post thanks for putting these up man I read all of them

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's more that in general I don't use camo infiltrators much. I used Zeroes when I played vanilla Nomads because they are just crazy cheap. I used Bandits a little bit. But even with Tohaa I barely used the Clipsos. But yeah, I like to rambo a lot whether that's Kriza or Hollow Men which is something I should experiment not doing.

E/M grenades are good. Having not really played Aleph, I forgot just how much good access to mines they have so I didn't consider the grenades much. The downside to the grenades is that they require rolls and can easily fail. Mines don't need that and are very good for controlling the board. If there's a mine covering an objective, that's a minimum two orders to get rid of it to then push the button if you want to do it safely (get into range then discover. Assuming that succeeds, then you shoot it.) at least for most lists. You don't typically bring a minesweeper. The alternative is an unsafe just walk into it and dodge at PH-3 which, even for good PH models is a 50/50 success. For bad PH models, you're passing on 7's usually. The less dice rolls you have to make, the more consistent your play is. This is why people walk on AD:Drop guys instead of risking the roll.

The other thing is that besides smoke grenades / eclipse grenades, I basically don't use grenades. Tunguska has 0 grenades beyond a smoke grenade launcher. Tohaa has eclipse grenades out the butt on the Makauls. I never use the Kotail for E/M grenades. I basically never use Kamaels for the light grenade launcher. I never take Krakots so I've never used their regular grenades. I think I've used the Igao's stun grenades exactly once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand not using Spektrs, because they're so damned expensive (though everything but the MSR and basic combi are worth what you pay for) but not using Clipsos? Those are one of the best units Tohaa has! I mean, I'm biased, coming from Ariadna and all, but camo infiltrators can be game changers (and game winners, for that matter.) Try bringing the Spektr next time, especially the KHD. Sure, he's not an Interventor, but I'm pretty sure that the only hacker in the game that's better than Interventors is Mary Problems, and even that's debatable. The KHD Spektr is WIP 14, and has the advantage of surprise shot coming out of TO camo. Super solid.

Also, grenades are [big bad swear word]ing awesome, especially on warbands. They can make great direct fire, FtF weapons, too. Some of them are pretty situational (the Igao's stun grenades, for example... probably only of value against multiple wound models with total immunity, because stun ammo is exotic, hence Loup Garous carrying flash grenades.) I have used grenades of all types to good effect in the past; linked LGLs are awesome, though perhaps not in triads because all you get is the +1 burst that gets negated by spec fire anyway. I've used Dog Warrior grenades to force a FtF roll if someone tries to dodge my chain rifles. And yeah, E/M grenades are stupid good, especially if there's no engineer handy. Grenades of various sorts don't seem to be commonly included in high-cost, low model count factions, though; Tunguska only has the one source of smoke grenades on Perseus and that's it, am I right?

But yeah, try the infiltrators & FD guys. And with MI getting it in ITS X, try a Grenzer haris; take a spitfire and then a forward observer to push buttons. A B5 spitfire escorting a specialist and deploying 16" up the board is nothing to sniff at. Rambo runs with Krizas and Hollow Men are great, but if they lose a gunfight, you've lost the tip of your spear, and since you'll probably not have both of them due to their expense, you're kinda up [big bad swear word] creek at that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I can understand not using Spektrs, because they're so damned expensive (though everything but the MSR and basic combi are worth what you pay for) but not using Clipsos? Those are one of the best units Tohaa has! I mean, I'm biased, coming from Ariadna and all, but camo infiltrators can be game changers (and game winners, for that matter.) Try bringing the Spektr next time, especially the KHD. Sure, he's not an Interventor, but I'm pretty sure that the only hacker in the game that's better than Interventors is Mary Problems, and even that's debatable. The KHD Spektr is WIP 14, and has the advantage of surprise shot coming out of TO camo. Super solid.

Also, grenades are [big bad swear word]ing awesome, especially on warbands. They can make great direct fire, FtF weapons, too. Some of them are pretty situational (the Igao's stun grenades, for example... probably only of value against multiple wound models with total immunity, because stun ammo is exotic, hence Loup Garous carrying flash grenades.) I have used grenades of all types to good effect in the past; linked LGLs are awesome, though perhaps not in triads because all you get is the +1 burst that gets negated by spec fire anyway. I've used Dog Warrior grenades to force a FtF roll if someone tries to dodge my chain rifles. And yeah, E/M grenades are stupid good, especially if there's no engineer handy. Grenades of various sorts don't seem to be commonly included in high-cost, low model count factions, though; Tunguska only has the one source of smoke grenades on Perseus and that's it, am I right?

But yeah, try the infiltrators & FD guys. And with MI getting it in ITS X, try a Grenzer haris; take a spitfire and then a forward observer to push buttons. A B5 spitfire escorting a specialist and deploying 16" up the board is nothing to sniff at. Rambo runs with Krizas and Hollow Men are great, but if they lose a gunfight, you've lost the tip of your spear, and since you'll probably not have both of them due to their expense, you're kinda up [big bad swear word] creek at that point.

Spekr MSR is my favorite Spektr, don't talk crap about him. 

You need to know where to deploy him, and when to pop him. If you do either wrong he sucks, if you do them both right he is a nightmare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, fine, infiltrating camo snipers are good when used properly. They're just so tricky to use, though, that I tend to just discount them in favor of stuff that's got a broader application. Which sucks, because I really want my Scout AP Sniper rifle to be good, but I'm just not good enough to use him properly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I can understand not using Spektrs, because they're so damned expensive (though everything but the MSR and basic combi are worth what you pay for) but not using Clipsos? Those are one of the best units Tohaa has! I mean, I'm biased, coming from Ariadna and all, but camo infiltrators can be game changers (and game winners, for that matter.) Try bringing the Spektr next time, especially the KHD. Sure, he's not an Interventor, but I'm pretty sure that the only hacker in the game that's better than Interventors is Mary Problems, and even that's debatable. The KHD Spektr is WIP 14, and has the advantage of surprise shot coming out of TO camo. Super solid.

Also, grenades are [big bad swear word]ing awesome, especially on warbands. They can make great direct fire, FtF weapons, too. Some of them are pretty situational (the Igao's stun grenades, for example... probably only of value against multiple wound models with total immunity, because stun ammo is exotic, hence Loup Garous carrying flash grenades.) I have used grenades of all types to good effect in the past; linked LGLs are awesome, though perhaps not in triads because all you get is the +1 burst that gets negated by spec fire anyway. I've used Dog Warrior grenades to force a FtF roll if someone tries to dodge my chain rifles. And yeah, E/M grenades are stupid good, especially if there's no engineer handy. Grenades of various sorts don't seem to be commonly included in high-cost, low model count factions, though; Tunguska only has the one source of smoke grenades on Perseus and that's it, am I right?

But yeah, try the infiltrators & FD guys. And with MI getting it in ITS X, try a Grenzer haris; take a spitfire and then a forward observer to push buttons. A B5 spitfire escorting a specialist and deploying 16" up the board is nothing to sniff at. Rambo runs with Krizas and Hollow Men are great, but if they lose a gunfight, you've lost the tip of your spear, and since you'll probably not have both of them due to their expense, you're kinda up [big bad swear word] creek at that point.

With the way I build lists, Spektrs really aren't all that expensive. On the surface, yes, 30+ points for a one wound model. But then Nagas are considered one of the best camo infiltrators, yeah? Spektrs trade dogged and 4 points for TO. And for Clipsos, I haven't taken them because I like having the orders available. If they're hidden, then they're not giving that order. If they're revealed, they feel awfully vulnerable with otherwise poor stats.

Tunguska has smoke on Perseus, yeah. Raoul also has drop bears. As for the Igao's stun grenades, spec firing them into a clump to let the Igao then move in to not immediately die to the return fire from non-stunned people. Alternatively, drop it on a normally good CC unit to then allow the Igao a guaranteed win on that. Like they'll probably still lose to Shinobu, but if you can stun her, the Igao can walk in and stab Shinobu easily.

And yeah. I know I need to break away from my usual building strategies and try something else. Not that they haven't been working, but it's good to have multiple styles you can be comfortable with.

logo_504.png Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png9  orden_irregular.png1  
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN MULTI Rifle + Pitcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
logo_18.pngSTEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)
logo_11.pngMARY PROBLEMS Hacker (Forward Deployment L1) Submachine Gun + Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_8.pngSPEKTR MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_8.pngSPEKTR (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
logo_27.pngWARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

4 SWC | 222 Points

Potential list for next week? I know I immediately went to Hollow Men, but they're very good for the mission of getting to the high ground.

Alternatively

logo_504.png Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png10  
logo_2.pngGRENZER Spitfire / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30)
logo_2.pngGRENZER (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
logo_2.pngGRENZER (Forward Observer, Sensor) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_8.pngSPEKTR Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
logo_8.pngSPEKTR Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

4 SWC | 225 Points

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

Alright, fine, infiltrating camo snipers are good when used properly. They're just so tricky to use, though, that I tend to just discount them in favor of stuff that's got a broader application. Which sucks, because I really want my Scout AP Sniper rifle to be good, but I'm just not good enough to use him properly.

There is a big difference between TO (hidden deployment and -6) and just regular camo.

 

Also the ojotnik is generally a better gun (for the price) anyway and doesn't cost swc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I agree about the ojotnik. But I still say infiltrating snipers are tricky enough to use that they're kind of an advanced tactic. Or maybe that's just because I'm bad at the game.

For what it's worth you generally don't want to infiltraite with a sniper. I normally keep mine hidden deployed towards the back of my d zone watching very long lanes.

BUT sometimes there is an excellent opportunity to exploit the infiltration. One game I played there was a building with a shallow slanted roof just out of my Dzone. I could deployment prone on the roof and watch the whole oppsite (right hand side) while being blocked by a chimney from across the board. It nailed down a vanguard link and a sogarat (bad ranges). 

Just because you have a skill doesn't mean you always need to use it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grasshoppers Maaaan... 

I'd fill to taste but instead of Ramboing (<new verb?) a Kriza why don't you "Rambo" some highly mobile multi wound heavily-armed specialist filled grasshoppers?

 (can the term Rambo be applied to a fireteam?)

I really am dying to see what five of these or at least a full Fireteam will do.

I still haven't seen a battle report or a video on YouTube and I haven't run 5 of them as proxies myself. Last time I ran tunguska I Ramboed a Borac into HMC Invincibles... they're tough but they're not that tough. But I've only ran one Hollow man all 3Xs time I ran @Ichi Tunguska

@dataentity if you went for a full fireteam of Hollow Man how would you build it what would you build around that?

Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska

orden_regular.png5

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37)

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN MULTI Rifle + Pitcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)

logo_18.pngSTEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)

2.5 SWC | 156 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't been running the full team because there just isn't enough points. We aren't playing full 300 points right now.

Not quite sure how I'd run the pain train. While I would want the missile launcher, not sure if you can really fit it. I don't think I'd end up running the assault hacker; you have the Stempler who is a repeater and the Pitcher on the MULTI Rifle Hollow Man. They're only WIP 13, so not the best hackers. I think I'd rather just use them as a repeater delivery tool for Mary Problems or an Interventor since you'll be taking at least one of those most likely anyway. I'd probably end up just dropping the assault hacker.

Actually, as long as you don't bring the missile launcher, you can reasonably bring that pain train at the current league points level.

logo_504.png Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png9  orden_irregular.png1  
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN MULTI Rifle + Pitcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
logo_18.pngSTEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)
logo_9.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_11.pngMARY PROBLEMS Hacker (Forward Deployment L1) Submachine Gun + Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
logo_27.pngWARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

3 SWC | 224 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Just don't know if I'd want Mary or if I'd want something else.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh that looks Nice!

The Grasshopper Gang... 

What about adding the Spektr for that practice? 

You lose a Warcor but you gain a durable unit w/Cybermines!

GrassHopper orden_regular.png9  

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN MULTI Rifle + Pitcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)

logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

logo_18.pngSTEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)

logo_9.pngINTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)

logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

logo_8.pngSPEKTR Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Cybermines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)

2.5 SWC | 225 Points

Open in Infinity Army

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's that time of week again. Mission was high ground. Person with the highest model wins. If you deploy outside of your deployment zone, you have to start on the ground.

List:

logo_504.png Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

orden_regular.png9  orden_irregular.png1  
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)
logo_4.pngHOLLOW MEN MULTI Rifle + Pitcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
logo_18.pngSTEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)
logo_11.pngMARY PROBLEMS Hacker (Forward Deployment L1) Submachine Gun + Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
logo_1.pngSECURITATE Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
logo_22.pngTRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
logo_8.pngSPEKTR MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
logo_8.pngSPEKTR Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
logo_27.pngWARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
logo_10.pngPUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / PistolKnife. (0 | 12)

4 SWC | 224 Points

Open in Infinity Army

I played against Chris' Combined Army consisting of a Maakrep HMG, Fraacta combi rifle, Unidron link (2 plasma carbines, a plasma sniper, and a spitfire), Umbra Legate (that was played with a nonlegal profile. It was played with a Spitfire and EI Hacking Device), and a Noctifer Missile Launcher.

Chris is a newer player, so a lot of this was about teaching rules. Such as I knew he had a Fraacta and a Noctifer Missile Launcher (who was also deployed as a marker on the table. Not necessarily a bad thing, but did allow me to play around it).

I lost the WIP off, but was allowed to go first. I was trying to lean more on Spektrs so it was weird going into this with only 7+1 orders.

Turn 1, my goal was to try and shutdown the Unidron link, which was the main battery of orders. So I push up with the Hollow Men link. First couple of orders I knock the Spitfire Unidron unconscious as he was deployed largely in the open. After that, I pushed up in the shadow of a central tower (highest point on the table) to avoid any possible shots from the Noctifer. I then used the Hollow's pitcher to place a repeater in the middle of the unidron link. Mary attempts a hack, but then I learn that the Unidrons have BTS 6. It was extremely unlikely for a hack to go off with BTS 6 so I gave up after one attempt. With only a couple of orders left (since two of them were hidden), I got the Hollow Men into position for the reactive turn while the put some shots into the unconscious Unidron. Removing that Unidron from the table, the Spitfire Hollow Man was able to then see and duel the Plasma Sniper Unidron.

Bottom of Turn 1, Chris attempts to move the Unidrons. Mary attempts more hacks while the bots attempt to get out of the hacking area. Again, with BTS 6, nothing happens, but it does eat up some orders. With the Unidrons not in a position to do anything, the Maakrep activated. Maakrep turned my Warcor into red mist then pushed to fight the Hollow Man spitfire. During the movement, my Spektr multisniper (hidden in my deployment zone) was able to get LoF on the Maakrep. The Maakrep split fire, 3 at the Hollow Man, 1 at the Spektre. I am only now remembering the Maakrep has MSV 2. Sorry Chris. Because of this, the Maakrep took took the -6 from the TO, -3 for long range (almost corner to corner), and -3 for cover. -12 to a BS of 12 meant an automiss against the Spektre. The Maakrep also fails their shots against the Hollow Man. Between the two, the Maakrep dies.

After that, the Umbra Legate comes out to try and fight the Hollow Man with Spitfire.  With the Hollow Man in cover, and still B 2 due to the link, the shots only manage to take one structure off. But, in the 2 orders the Umbra was given to fight, Mary was able to hack for free against the Umbra using Redrum (again, we were playing it as a Spitfire + EI Hacking Device). Between the two attempt, Mary was able to put the Umbra into NWI. After that, the Fraacta drops in on his side of the table, but no orders were really spent on her.

Turn 2

My next active turn was unfortunate. The Hollow spitfire actives to take out the Umbra. He then gets on top of a crate to KO another Unidron. Then things get interesting. Given that Chris did not reveal his Noctifer while the Hollow was fighting the Unidron, I gambled that he wouldn't reveal as I jumped my Stempler Zond over the crate to get closer to the TO camo marker (to sensor / sat lock him). However, Chris does reveal, and shoots the Hollow Man. Since I had to declare jump to get the Stempler over, even if the Hollow Man didn't move, he didn't get cover. Noctifer is shooting at flat. Hollow is at -6 total, but with 5 shots. Noctifer crits, but the Hollow Man crit twice back and washes. Well, almost washes. It was still a successful template so the Stempler takes an EXP hit, saves two but fails one so goes down. So much for the plan.

I attempt to brute force the problem now that the Noctifer is revealed and try to spitfire the Noctifer down. Noctifer crits again and the Hollow Man goes unconscious. WELP.

At this point, I give up on the Hollow Man plan and reveal my Boarding Shotgun Spektre. He moves out of cover towards a ladder to get closer, crossing LoF of the Noctifer. Noctifer attempts to discover. Noctifer crit discovers. 3 rolls, 3 crits. This was the most annoying Noctifer. Spektre recamos since he ended out of LoS, and then pushes up, getting onto the building via ladder and gets into the Noctifer's face. The Fraacta can see as he crosses the bridge, but fails the discover. Spektre then shotguns the Noctifer in the face and finally puts him down. That's the end of my active turn.

On the reactive, Chris is in loss of lieutenant (the Umbra I believe) and with 2 models left: the Fraacta and the Unidron. Unidron moves out to get line of fire on my Spektre. They duke it out and the Unidron kills the Spektre. The second irregular order is converted to allow the Unidron to get back into cover.

Turn 3

With victory of the mission secured (my Securitate was on a tower in my deployment. There was no good way for the Unidron to get higher in 1 order), I just try to kill Chris' remaining models for fun. My remaining Hollow Man with MULTI Rifle runs and jumps to then duel the Fraacta, winning the fight. The Hollow Man does take a crit during the fight and to lose a structure. The Hollow sprints for the Unidron and dukes it out. The Hollow Man eats another crit and goes unconscious.

With only one order, the Unidron just finishes off the Hollow Man, removing him from the table.

 

So yeah. It was crit city towards the end of this game and the Noctifer was a huge pain in the butt. Hard to say how much of it is a Noctifer just being really good (which they are), or if it was just crits being crits.

Thanks Chris for using up all the luck on my dice.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...