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The Thunderdome!


SPaceORK

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So in order to better prepare for what I hope will be tournament filled next 12 months I've decided to create the Thunderdome! Thunderdome is just going to be a bunch of lists using armies I already own, with some proxies here and there, to playtest against. After deciding which lists make the cut to playtest against, I will play a bunch of games with whatever list I'm currently playing. Now, duh! That just sounds like a solid plan to get better! Well yea, but I've decided to add a twist. I mean Max didn't really have a fair chance against Blaster. So in addition to whatever lists I decide to play against, I'm always going to go second, which in this edition, is basically playing from behind a good chunk of the time. No seizing the initiative either. A 16% chance to go first isn't reliable enough to actually throw into the equation. In addition to that, I'm going to have my opponent adjust their dice rolls.  Roll D6 for battle-cannon shots and roll a 1? No, take a 3. Smash me with a demon prince but manage to roll 3 1's even after the reroll? No, you would hit 7 times normally, take the 7 hits. Roll 4 for a smite? That looks like a 5 to me... Basically I want to remove all the low numbers cause , while it happens, rolling low doesn't happen to a player who is on his way to winning a tournament. Variance is usually on their side.  And the reverse will go for me. I roll 6 for the number of battle cannon shots, nope, a 3. I roll 12 for a smite? Nope treat it as d3 mortal wounds. Now I'm not going to do that as frequently as I would for my opponent because you do need some luck in games and that will basically be during the first couple turns. This should get me used to playing from a behind position and force better gameplay in order to win. I'm a pretty loose player and I feel I need to tighten my play up. 

Now for the Max to my Thunderdome. The list I currently like is a Catachan/Blood Angels. Obviously this can change between now and the Guardian Cup (The main tournament I plan on attending) but I don't anticipate any nerfs to any of the units so I should be good.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [24 PL, 423pts] ++
 
Slamguinius  (Captain) [6 PL, 129pts]: 2. Artisan of War, Jump Pack [1 PL, 19pts], Storm shield [15pts], The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer [21pts], Warlord
 
Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack [1 PL, 19pts], Storm shield [15pts], The Veritas Vitae, Thunder hammer [21pts]
 
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
 
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
 
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
 
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [88 PL, 1495pts] ++
 
Regimental Doctrine: Catachan
 
Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken [4 PL, 75pts]
 
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave [8pts], Psychic Barrier
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman [28pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman [28pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman [28pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman [32pts]
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman [32pts]
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman [32pts]
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
+ Elites [25 PL, 503pts] +
 
Astropath [1 PL, 36pts]: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave [6pts]
 
Bullgryns [19 PL, 378pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
. Bullgryn Bone 'ead [42pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul [7pts]
 
Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 39pts]: Laspistol, Power maul [4pts]
 
Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]
 
+ Fast Attack [9 PL, 156pts] +
 
Scout Sentinels [3 PL, 52pts]
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]: Heavy Flamer [17pts]
 
Scout Sentinels [3 PL, 52pts]
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]: Heavy Flamer [17pts]
 
Scout Sentinels [3 PL, 52pts]
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]: Heavy Flamer [17pts]
 
+ Heavy Support [17 PL, 249pts] +
 
Basilisks [7 PL, 108pts]
. Basilisk [7 PL, 108pts]: Heavy Bolter [8pts]
 
Basilisks [7 PL, 108pts]
. Basilisk [7 PL, 108pts]: Heavy Bolter [8pts]
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
 
+ Flyer [11 PL, 160pts] +
 
Vulture Gunship [11 PL, 160pts]
. Vulture Gunship [11 PL, 160pts]: Heavy bolter [8pts], Twin Punisher Gatling Cannons [40pts]
 
++ Total: [112 PL, 1918pts] ++
 
So the list is a brigade of Catachan to both make both Slamguinius function at full strength and have the Bullgryn have that sweet 2++ invulnerable save all game. Plenty of troops that can be very good in melee if need be thanks to being Catachan. Harker to buff the artillery. And a Vulture to clear screens. It seems like a solid plan but I guess the Thunderdome will decide that. I also have 80+ points to play around with but I don't really know what to add.  
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The first opponent to enter the Thunderdome! While I'm sure this list isn't optimized what it does do is give -2 to hit to almost everything. Which for a bunch of Guardsmen, realllly sucks. I also don't really get to move where I want because the flyers can easily box me out of zones.
 
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [42 PL, 755pts] ++
 
Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft
 
+ HQ [12 PL, 227pts] +
 
Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 117pts]: 4: Fate's Messenger, Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Fusion Pistol [9pts], Laser Lance [8pts], Shimmerplume of Achillrial, Twin Shuriken Catapult [5pts]
 
Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
 
+ Troops [12 PL, 240pts] +
 
Dire Avengers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger [60pts]: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult [20pts]
 
Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]
 
Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]
 
Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]
 
+ Dedicated Transport [18 PL, 288pts] +
 
Wave Serpent [9 PL, 144pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts], Twin Shuriken Cannon [17pts], Vectored Engines [10pts]
 
Wave Serpent [9 PL, 144pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts], Twin Shuriken Cannon [17pts], Vectored Engines [10pts]
 
++ Patrol Detachment (Aeldari - Ynnari) [26 PL, 493pts] ++
 
Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host
 
+ HQ [7 PL, 132pts] +
 
Yvraine [7 PL, 132pts]
 
+ Troops [5 PL, 80pts] +
 
Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 80pts]: 10x Guardian Defender [80pts]
 
+ Fast Attack [14 PL, 281pts] +
 
Shining Spears [14 PL, 281pts]
. 8x Shining Spear [248pts]: 8x Laser Lance [64pts], 8x Twin Shuriken Catapult [40pts]
. Shining Spear Exarch [33pts]: Star Lance [10pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [5pts]
 
++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [36 PL, 740pts] ++
 
Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft
 
+ Flyer [36 PL, 740pts] +
 
Crimson Hunter [8 PL, 160pts]: 2x Bright Lance [40pts]
 
Crimson Hunter [8 PL, 160pts]: 2x Bright Lance [40pts]
 
Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: Spirit Stones [10pts]
 
Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: Spirit Stones [10pts]
 
++ Total: [104 PL, 1988pts] ++
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@SPaceORK while those assumptions are good to train yourself don't neglect going first on occasion. If you only go second you may find you aren't ready to go first when your opponent likes going second too.

 

Had a buddy training like this and totally busted his mind when I chose to go second in a training game against me. I did this on purpose as I knew he trained to go second so I screwed with his mind for an edge. I have always played a portion of my game above the table messing with my opponents mind through actions designed to make them question what they took as fact. 

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36 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

@SPaceORK while those assumptions are good to train yourself don't neglect going first on occasion. If you only go second you may find you aren't ready to go first when your opponent likes going second too.

 

Had a buddy training like this and totally busted his mind when I chose to go second in a training game against me. I did this on purpose as I knew he trained to go second so I screwed with his mind for an edge. I have always played a portion of my game above the table messing with my opponents mind through actions designed to make them question what they took as fact. 

Agreed. In 6th and 7th especially, I would often make my opponent go first when I got the choice, and it really threw several people for a loop.

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11 hours ago, WestRider said:

Agreed. In 6th and 7th especially, I would often make my opponent go first when I got the choice, and it really threw several people for a loop.

I played super tanky lists in 6th & 7th so I always went second to have last chance at objectives. 

I do feel that going second in 8th is a slight disadvantage most of the time. But you guys are correct... I will adjust as I play, but I do want to play from a bad position  most of the time, so when I'm in that position (which I will be alot) there is no panic.

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So... the eldar. Well it went ok. My shooting was poor as to be expected. However Slamguinius was a boss.  Hitting on 3+, rerolling 1's with 5+D3 s8 attacks, and +1 to wound and a 3d6, rerollable charge, no overwatch.  He is a hammer shaped scalpel that tears through planes or really anything. Except hordes, but thats what the guard is for. I still lost, but i stacked the deck against me, and it was closer than I could have hoped for. With some more games it should be a far better match-up. Thinking about tweaking  the eldar  list to add Dark Eldar  just for the "counter-spell" stratagem. Shutting down even one of Slamguinius's stratagems could take him from all star to mediocre very quickly.
 
Next up is the Knight + Guard list that has been running around, except for one big knight, I've decided to try 3 medium knights. I've been playing the Gallant for a couple weeks now and a turn one charging suicide knight is a terrifying. It usually kills a ton of things then explodes on a 4+ if you want.  So with three Hawkshroud knights, while I'm not going to get the first turn charge with all three, they should survive to make it to the opponents lines. And three Gallants hitting anyone's line is... well devastating. Add in a Catachan brigade to do everything else and this should be a interesting "Mirror" match.
 
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [56 PL, 937pts] ++
 
Regimental Doctrine: Catachan
 
+ HQ [8 PL, 151pts] +
 
Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken [4 PL, 75pts]
 
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave [8pts], Nightshroud, Psychic Barrier
 
+ Troops [18 PL, 312pts] +
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 52pts]
. 6x Guardsman [24pts]
Guardsmen W/ Speacial Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 52pts]
. 6x Guardsman [24pts]
Guardsmen W/ Speacial Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 52pts]
. 6x Guardsman [24pts]
Guardsmen W/ Speacial Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 52pts]
. 6x Guardsman [24pts]
Guardsmen W/ Speacial Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 52pts]
. 6x Guardsman [24pts]
Guardsmen W/ Speacial Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 52pts]
. 6x Guardsman [24pts]
Guardsmen W/ Speacial Weapon [11pts]: Plasma gun [7pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [13pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol
 
 
+ Elites [6 PL, 121pts] +
 
Astropath [1 PL, 36pts]: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave [6pts]
 
Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 35pts]: Laspistol
 
Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]
 
+ Fast Attack [15 PL, 254pts] +
 
Hellhounds [6 PL, 101pts]
. Hellhound [6 PL, 101pts]: Heavy Bolter [8pts], Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon [20pts]
 
Hellhounds [6 PL, 101pts]
. Hellhound [6 PL, 101pts]: Heavy Bolter [8pts], Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon [20pts]
 
Scout Sentinels [3 PL, 52pts]
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]: Heavy Flamer [17pts]
 
+ Heavy Support [9 PL, 99pts] +
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
 
++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [60 PL, 1062pts] ++
 
Exalted Court: Exalted Court: 2 Extra Warlord Traits (-3CP)
 
Heirlooms of the Household: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom (-1CP)
 
Household Choice: House Hawkshroud, Questor Imperialis
 
+ Lord of War [60 PL, 1062pts] +
 
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 354pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts], Reaper chainsword [30pts], Thunderstrike gauntlet [35pts]
. Character: Exalted Court Member, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
 
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 354pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts], Heirloom: Armour of the Sainted Ion, Reaper chainsword [30pts], Thunderstrike gauntlet [35pts]
. Character: Exalted Court Member
 
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 354pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts], Reaper chainsword [30pts], Thunderstrike gauntlet [35pts]
. Character: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
 
++ Total: [116 PL, 1999pts] ++
 
 
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Yea, so while Bullgyns are beasts with a 2++ and a boatload of S8 attacks, they only have a 3++ in melee. Which as it turns out, doesn't do much when hit by two knights attacking three times. Yes, Slamguinius  did his job and murdered a knight, but he couldn't survive the second knights feet. Oh and those poor catachans who's line crumbled after the third knight slammed into them, there wasn't much I could do to stop it.

I'm starting to think maybe Slamguinius is to much of a CP glutton. And knights are pretty cool... But I think more games are in order, and I really need to face a tanky/wizardy chaos list.  Plus I don't think knights would do so well against smite spam versus what Slamguinius would do.

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45 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I'm sad this isn't a Mad Max themed Genestealer Cult Army Thread.

naaaw... that would be orks. genestealer doesn't quite fit. But the thread does fit the "Two men enter, one man leaves" theme of thunderdome, cause I will find a decent list even if it ends up being one of the playtesting armies.

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On July 23, 2018 at 1:14 PM, SPaceORK said:
+ Lord of War [60 PL, 1062pts] +
 
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 354pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts], Reaper chainsword [30pts], Thunderstrike gauntlet [35pts]
. Character: Exalted Court Member, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
 
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 354pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts], Heirloom: Armour of the Sainted Ion, Reaper chainsword [30pts], Thunderstrike gauntlet [35pts]
. Character: Exalted Court Member
 
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 354pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts], Reaper chainsword [30pts], Thunderstrike gauntlet [35pts]
. Character: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
 
 
cleardot.gif

Probably won't affect your list creation, but something worth knowing is that adding the character rule to your knights makes them eligible for a bunch of anti-character options in various armies. Nothing too broken, but it's much more reliable to design elements of your list to be anti-character than it is to design a list to be anti-titan since characters are in all armies, but titans are only in some armies. 

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1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Probably won't affect your list creation, but something worth knowing is that adding the character rule to your knights makes them eligible for a bunch of anti-character options in various armies. Nothing too broken, but it's much more reliable to design elements of your list to be anti-character than it is to design a list to be anti-titan since characters are in all armies, but titans are only in some armies. 

Wouldn't it also do the opposite? Pro- character ablities. Like some spells and stratagems say " Hits units on 4+, characters on a 5+"?

And no I didn't think about that... But having a 2+, 3++ or being able to turn one charge outweighs any negative effect stapling the character keyword would bring.

I don't tend to think about anti- character much. People either hide them and I deal with them when I can. Or they make a mistake and serve them up.

Most if the time I try to get anti-tank and anti-infantry with as much redundancy as possible while having the most models possible.

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14 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

Wouldn't it also do the opposite? Pro- character ablities. Like some spells and stratagems say " Hits units on 4+, characters on a 5+"?

And no I didn't think about that... But having a 2+, 3++ or being able to turn one charge outweighs any negative effect stapling the character keyword would bring.

I don't tend to think about anti- character much. People either hide them and I deal with them when I can. Or they make a mistake and serve them up.

Most if the time I try to get anti-tank and anti-infantry with as much redundancy as possible while having the most models possible.

You are talking about things like the Demolisher's Linebreaker Bombardment. Yes, AoE abilities usually have more trouble hitting characters, but AoE is also not really what you'd use against knights anyway. The Sniper rifles don't really matter because their anti-character is specific to characters with less wounds. 

But for anti-character that would matter to your knights, you have basically three types. Bonuses/rerolls against characters, specific effects against a specific character chosen at the start of the game, and obscure things that affect characters in odd ways. The first two are easy to find in most books, but third requires and example:

Slaanesh Daemons have a Relic which targets a single enemy character within 12" at the start of any enemy phase. 3d6 vs the character's leadership. If it exceeds, your character is unable to act for that phase. Normally this effect is rather mediocre, but character superheavies, it's quite impressive. 

I also like that chaos (Daemons and CSM) have options to transform slain characters into chaos spawn...

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13 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

Wouldn't it also do the opposite? Pro- character ablities. Like some spells and stratagems say " Hits units on 4+, characters on a 5+"?

Most of those also have Vehicles affected on the worse roll, same as Characters, but yeah, I think there might be a couple that are just Characters.

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Like CSM vs Knight Characters would be the Murder Sword. Pick a character at the start of the game, all melee attacks with the murder sword that hit become mortal wounds. No wound roll required and it replaces a 4pt melee weapon.  So basic chaos lord can realistically deal 4 mortal wounds per activation in the melee phase (and, with mark of khorne, can be activated twice), and, as your knight would have the Imperium keyword, could make additonal attacks on hits of 6+. Nothing amazing when directly compared to a knight, but a chaos lord is 78pts like that and fills a mandatory slot in a brigade or battalion. Yeah, situational, but would be pretty awesome against your knights.

The CSM Exalted Champion can re-roll all hits vs Characters. 

The infamous eldar Mindwar psychic power works only against characters. 

Saim-Hann has a warlord trait that gives bonus attacks vs characters and allows them to use heroic intervention to move towards the nearest enemy character, rather than the nearest enemy unit.

And quite a few others. Yeah, nothing too amazing, and never lots in a single codex, but some may end up having an impact on your games. Personally, I'm thrilled that your army is making my murdersword more viable...

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1 hour ago, WestRider said:

Most of those also have Vehicles affected on the worse roll, same as Characters, but yeah, I think there might be a couple that are just Characters.

So which one would trigger? The character clause version? Or the vehicles part? I mean I guess its not super relevant.

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1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Personally, I'm thrilled that your army is making my murdersword more viable...

I would also be thrilled your taking the murdersword.

It has a metal-as-feth name and...

If your taking the murder sword, that means your taking something that has a powersword. And if your taking a guy with a powersword, that means one less demon prince, Abbadon, Kharn that I have to worry about.

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50 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

I would also be thrilled your taking the murdersword.

It has a metal-as-feth name and...

If your taking the murder sword, that means your taking something that has a powersword. And if your taking a guy with a powersword, that means one less demon prince, Abbadon, Kharn that I have to worry about.

Well, we can transform our cheap lord into princes via a stratgem.

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