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SPaceORK

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1 hour ago, SPaceORK said:

So which one would trigger? The character clause version? Or the vehicles part? I mean I guess its not super relevant.

In all the examples I can think of, the effect is the same regardless of which keyword (or how many of them) is present. If there are any where they're different, that could result in some odd interactions. I don't really think there are, tho, because we've had Vehicle Characters in 8th from the very start (Bjorn, Pask, Longstrike, etc.), and it probably would have come up by now if there were a situation where it really mattered.

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17 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

I guess that's technically correct. You can spend 1cp for a 8.3% chance to upgrade to a prince. Or get turned into a spawn...

Same odds to turn into spawn. 

And really, it's 91.2% of improvement (including princedom), 8.3% of becoming spawn.

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2 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

What happens the other .5% of the time?

Bad math while typing on a cell phone. And I was just reversing the math already done.

In hindsight, the table is 2d6, so the other guy was really off. 97.22% chance of improvement, 2.77% chance of becoming spawn. At least, assuming this guy is accurate: http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/2_dice_rolls.htm#.W1tw8f9lBhE 

And that doesn't take into account the ability to command re-roll one of the dice rolled. So, if you've got an extra command point, the odds are less than 2.77% that he'll become spawn. The average roll should be the 7, which is a choice of any ability other than the spawndom or princedom.

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2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Bad math while typing on a cell phone. And I was just reversing the math already done.

In hindsight, the table is 2d6, so the other guy was really off. 97.22% chance of improvement, 2.77% chance of becoming spawn. At least, assuming this guy is accurate: http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/2_dice_rolls.htm#.W1tw8f9lBhE 

And that doesn't take into account the ability to command re-roll one of the dice rolled. So, if you've got an extra command point, the odds are less than 2.77% that he'll become spawn. The average roll should be the 7, which is a choice of any ability other than the spawndom or princedom.

My math was done in my head, and I just took the chance of rolling a 1 on a d6 and halfed it. I guess the actual chance of becoming a prince is 1/36. If your already spending cp to roll you might as well spend another one to reroll.

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36 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

My math was done in my head, and I just took the chance of rolling a 1 on a d6 and halfed it. I guess the actual chance of becoming a prince is 1/36. If your already spending cp to roll you might as well spend another one to reroll.

Depends what you roll, honestly. Double 1s definitely need a re-roll to avoid being spawn. If you get a 6, rerolling the other die is preferable, but otherwise the results are pretty much just as useful across the board. Rolling 7, or a duplicate, let's you pick from any other than duplicates, spawndom, or princedom.

Though, this is all hindsight. It wasn't until I really did the math just a sec ago that I realized how good the chaos boon table really is and how unlikely spawndom (or princedom) is. It's those 3-11 results that are the real effect of the stratagem, and they really aren't lacking: +1 wound, +1 Toughness, +1 base strength, +1 to all saves, +6" to all ranged weapons, +1 attack, +3" to Move, or a -1 penalty for enemies to hit this character in the fight phase.

And the key is context, because you are typically only rolling on this table as a result of slaying an enemy character/vehicle/monster in the fight phase. So it's safe to assume that your character will already be in melee range or pretty close the enemy when they roll on this table. 

The one big downside, as written, is that none of the chaos boons carry over the created spawn/prince because, from a game mechanical standpoint, they are two different models. So no "Super" princes or "Super" spawn.

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2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Depends what you roll, honestly. Double 1s definitely need a re-roll to avoid being spawn. If you get a 6, rerolling the other die is preferable, but otherwise the results are pretty much just as useful across the board. Rolling 7, or a duplicate, let's you pick from any other than duplicates, spawndom, or princedom.

Though, this is all hindsight. It wasn't until I really did the math just a sec ago that I realized how good the chaos boon table really is and how unlikely spawndom (or princedom) is. It's those 3-11 results that are the real effect of the stratagem, and they really aren't lacking: +1 wound, +1 Toughness, +1 base strength, +1 to all saves, +6" to all ranged weapons, +1 attack, +3" to Move, or a -1 penalty for enemies to hit this character in the fight phase.

And the key is context, because you are typically only rolling on this table as a result of slaying an enemy character/vehicle/monster in the fight phase. So it's safe to assume that your character will already be in melee range or pretty close the enemy when they roll on this table. 

The one big downside, as written, is that none of the chaos boons carry over the created spawn/prince because, from a game mechanical standpoint, they are two different models. So no "Super" princes or "Super" spawn.

All of this boils down to, spend that 1cp on a reroll not the randomness that is the chaos boon table.

I've hated it since the beginning of 6th. Random isn't fun. Random makes things take longer and makes more bookkeeping.

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2 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

All of this boils down to, spend that 1cp on a reroll not the randomness that is the chaos boon table.

I've hated it since the beginning of 6th. Random isn't fun. Random makes things take longer and makes more bookkeeping.

Agree on that front. Bookkeeping is the bane of 40k armies. 

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34 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Come to Imperial Knights. We have 1 model armies, because [big bad swear word] bookkeeping.

Seriously thinking of switching from blood angels/catachan to triple gallant/catachans. But I do love the bullgryn star and slamguinius...

I don't have a castellan ,but I have like 5 other variants. Still gonna need to pick up the third gallant... But this time I'm going to magnetize the weapons.

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  • 1 month later...

Alright, time for a little thread necromancy. I've got alot of games in with core bits of the list I originally intended to play with. As happens in playtesting, alot of things didn't go as planned.

I have decided if i'm going to play imperial soup of some sort then I really want Catachans (cause they look awesome and happen to be really good) with a Bullgryn Star. Also even with the incoming nerf, a blood angels battalion is to efficient not to take. Smash captains are the hammer to the Bullgryns anvil and they do it well. However there are alot of other options and well armies to test.

One problem I was worried about with any list was hordes. I didn't know if I had enough to bullets to deal with that many bodies. Well I am SPaceORK, so its time to bring in da boyz! I had my buddy Amber pilot my Catachan Bullgryns, Smash Captains and 3 units of Deathwatch Hellblasters. I took Weirdboys, Warbosses, Stormboyz and a metric ton of boyz (120 actually).

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 This is the only picture of the SPORK WAAAAAGH! taken that day. Mostly because in two turns of combat and shooting the cheatin 'umies killed 90+ models. Well I guess hordes are not an issue.

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The SPORK WAAAGH! actually had two encounters with the imperium that day. A local player brought out his custodes. I wanted to see if a custodes only list had enough to handle almost 200 models... 

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Deployment. Its a little weird to have that many models against so few. 

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So how did it go? Well after 4 turns the orks killed 12 of 24 models. The custodes in return killed 120+ models. It was not a good day. Here's hoping the codex helps out the boyz.

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And now to a little more realistic testing. 

My list;

Bullyrn Star with support

Straken

2x Platoon commanders w/power fists

2x Leman Russes  and 2x Basilisks

3x Infantry w/ mortars

30x conscripts

Custodes banner guy (5++ to imperium models)

3x shield captains on bikes

His list;

15 (3,3 &9) ynnari dark reapers

15 rangers

Cat lady

Various farseers & spiritseers

9 ynnari saim hann shining spears

Wave serpent (proxied by a plane)

Dark elf leader guy

3x  Ravagers

Now I know the Russes and Basilisks are not optimal but I forgot my hellblasters and vulture I wanted to try so ... ehh. The core of what I wanted to try was there. 

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I would like to say I got first turn. That I powered my Bullgryns up. That I got my Shield Captains into turn two charge range. That I screened out his movement with my conscripts and that my tanks killed his Pirate ships.

But I didnt.

Instead I watched in horror as the reapers killed my bullgyns to a man by shooting twice, which enabled the Ynnari Saim Hann Shining spears moved  36'' across the table engage my Catachans and shield captain. He shot a few more things, cast a bunch of powers and stratagems and passed turn. At this point I did the only thing a guardsmen can, Fix Bayonets!!. Well I shot first, but with everything being -1 to hit and my army gutted for close combat it really wasn't much.

Now I'm sure mistakes were made because this was the eldars players first game with eldar and its a very complicated army. But damn... I reall could have used a Smash captain to kill me some reapers. The hellblasters would have been nice as well.

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Well... I had planned to go to the Guardian Cup on November 10th. I messaged the TO and asked for the player packet. 

Me: "Hey, I was interested  in playing in your tournament and would like the player packet and to pay for tickets"

Him: "Sorry, I canceled it"

Me: "Uhh what?"

Him: "Yea I needed to cancel. I probably  should take down all the info for that. Sorry."

Me: "...."

Yea so that sucked. However it did appear that all of Team Zero Comp and part of Beast Coast was planning to attend so I did save myself from a 0-5 record for the weekend.

So after that I was a little bummed about the whole 40k thing. But then orks dropped. Time to bring out the boyz!

 

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