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Random 40k-specific thought thread


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Oh, yes, that is clearly how they intended the rule to work and how 99.9999% of people play it. I just enjoy finding silly little pedantic nitpick things that turn the game completely on its head if you apply the rules as written.

My personal favorite remains the 5th Edition(?) Necron Codex where the Monolith’s secondary weapons grew more powerful as it took damage because the rules said it “lost –1 shots” when damaged. Well, if you subtract a negative number from a positive number...

😁

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In simplified numerology, every letter of the alphabet is given a value equal to its place in the sequence. A equals one, B equals 2, and so forth. If you apply this system and then add up the values of all the letters into a total sum... Do you know what word equals “81”? Do you?

ZOATS!

26+15+1+20+19 = 81!

The return of the Zoats is going to happen on the eighty-first day of the Vigilis campaign!

CONFIRMED! 

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This unit contains 1 Aggressor Sergeant and 2 Aggressors. It can include up to 3 additional Aggressors (Power Rating +6). Each model is armed with auto boltstorm gauntlets and a frag grenade launcher.

--Codex Adeptus Astartes Space Marines (p. 157; Emphasis mine)

Quote

3. Choose Ranged Weapon
The weapons a model has are listed on its datasheet. If a model has several  weapons, it can shoot all of them at the same target, or it can shoot each at a different enemy unit.

--Warhammer 40,000 Battle Primer (p. 5)

So... When shooting with a single Space Marine Aggressor, we know he has several weapons and can shoot all of them... But how many weapons does he have? By my reading of the codex and looking at the model, I'd say he has two auto boltstorm gauntlets and one frag grenade launcher... But just about everywhere I look on the Internet, people are talking about these guys as if they have  one auto boltstorm gauntlet and one frag grenade launcher!? WTF?

 

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15 minutes ago, Ish said:

So... When shooting with a single Space Marine Aggressor, we know he has several weapons and can shoot all of them... But how many weapons does he have? By my reading of the codex and looking at the model, I'd say he has two auto boltstorm gauntlets and one frag grenade launcher... But just about everywhere I look on the Internet, people are talking about these guys as if they have  one auto boltstorm gauntlet and one frag grenade launcher!? WTF?

 

It depends on the wording of the weapon profile and the unit's entry description of what he's equipped with. Between the two, it should be clear.

 

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10 minutes ago, Ish said:

I already quoted the unit's entry description. The weapon profile in question gives the name as "auto boltstorm gauntlets," which doesn't really clarify anything. 

They have a single set of auto bolt storm gauntlets, if you look the weapon profile is plural as well. Some other weapons look like multiples are referred to as plural but have a single stat line that takes into account all the barrels...

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1 hour ago, Ish said:

I already quoted the unit's entry description. The weapon profile in question gives the name as "auto boltstorm gauntlets," which doesn't really clarify anything. 

Okay, so at the top where the unit entry describes what the unit is comprised of, what does it say? If it swaps weapons off the base version, how is the weapon swap worded?

EDIT: Nevermind, sounds like you already got your answer.

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"Each model is armed with auto boltstorm gauntlets and a fragstorm grenade launcher."
"John has apples and a banana."

See the ambiguity here? We know John has one banana, but we have no way to know exactly how many apples John has, all we know is it has to be a number greater than one, because otherwise he'd have "an apple and a banana." 

As for looking to the alternate weapon option, well, that just adds another layer of ambiguity.

"All models in the unit may replace their auto boltstorm gauntlets and a fragstorm grenade launcher with flamestorm gauntlets."
"John may replace his apples and banana with lemons."

Okay, so the banana gets replaced with a lemon. One for one. Then the apples get replaces with lemons. One for one... but we don't know how many apples he had to begin with.


GW has horrible, terrible, no good, rotten copy-editors.

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49 minutes ago, Ish said:

"Each model is armed with auto boltstorm gauntlets and a fragstorm grenade launcher."

Take that, then piece it with the weapon profile (as in, where it says what kind of effect this weapon has). Is the weapon refereed to as "auto boltstorm gauntlets"?

If so, sounds like "auto boltstorm gauntlets" is singular, not plural.

So it's apple and banana.

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3 minutes ago, Ish said:

The weapon profile gives the name as "Auto boltstorm gauntlets," which does seem to implie what you're saying... But, nonetheless, this is a terrible way to write a rule book.

And utterly typical of the way GW writes all their rule books.

How would you have worded it? I feel that GW has been a pretty good job in how they word what each unit has, at least for this edition and in the codex/index.

FW has been terrible, and the GW FAQs/errata remains iffy, though the frequency of FAQs and errata has certainly improved.

 

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7 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

How would you have worded it? I feel that GW has been a pretty good job in how they word what each unit has, at least for this edition and in the codex/index.

Either as "Each model is armed with a pair of auto boltstorm gauntlets and a frag grenade launcher." or "Each model is armed with two auto boltstorm gauntlets and a frag grenade launcher."

When writing, editing, or even just plain reading a rule book, I always prefer a more precise and legalistic style. GW uses a conversational tone that whilst more pleasant to read leisurely, leads to all kinds of confusing ambiguity. The main reason most of the FAQs exist is to clarify language in the rule books that GW's editors could have corrected during production if they weren't so causal with their use of language.

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24 minutes ago, Ish said:

Either as "Each model is armed with a pair of auto boltstorm gauntlets and a frag grenade launcher." or "Each model is armed with two auto boltstorm gauntlets and a frag grenade launcher."

If the weapon profile was a "Pair of auto boltstorm gauntlets" then it would be confused with Pairs of Lightning claws, since a pair of lightning claws means they have 2x lightning claws.

Or did you mean to alter the weapon profile so that each auto boltstorm gauntlet is half of a pair?

I think they worded that one as best they could, even if it's confusing when you skim it.

 

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Okay, so let’s consider the Aggressor issue settled. I still think it’s sloppy writing, but I agree with ya’ll about what they intended. Moving on...

I’ve pretty much decided that I only want to use Primaris Marines in my Imperial Fists army. However, there are some units that do not (yet) have Primaris counterparts. Techmarines, Bikers, Jumppack-equipped Heroes, and so forth.

If I were to convert a Primaris equivalent of one of these units, but run them under the rules of the other – say, by gluing a Servoharness onto an Agressor body and stick a power axe in his hands — would anyone object?

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We don’t know much about the Tau’s socio-political system beyond what we see in the codices (which is always presented as “in universe” information from unreliable narrators from the Imperium of Man) but based on what we do have, I’d say the Tau are more akin to a hybrid suzerainty/hegemony than a traditional empire.

The various Tau-majority worlds seem to be client-states to the T’au homeworld’s suzerain. The Tau, as a whole, seem to have hegemonic power over the various client races, Kroot, Demiurge, Vespid, Gue’la Humans, etc.

There also seems to be a bit of a theocratic element to it all too, given  the way the four Tau Castes all pay obeisance to the Ætheral caste.

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