Dusldorf's 8th edition army lists

[Dusldorf]

I went to a local tourney yesterday and played the new wolves dex. Not going to post batreps or anything right now, but that experience led to the following latest version of my 1750pt tournament list. It's quite lean already. The general idea is that if I'm up against an army with strong shooting, I can use the Cunning of the Wolf stratagem to reserve the Long Fangs and Great Company Ancient to ensure that they get at least one turn of full-strength shooting before they're targetable. The Blood Claws are merely a vehicle for the terminator wolf guard, and the intent is that he'll become an ObSec Lone Wolf at some point. (I chose Blood Claws instead of Grey Hunters because that means the terminator will gain +1 attack for charging even after the blood claws are dead.) The WGBL and Rune Priest are character/monster hunters, the Armor of Russ ensuring that the target (or whichever model poses the greatest threat in CC) will always strike last. The dominions enable the immolators to spring forward and grab objectives or kill infantry blobs, and Celestine & the Seraphim will hunt vehicles and other key targets. The guard are there to hold my backfield, and the punisher is for deleting infantry blobs. (Nothing quite like a Vostroyan tank commander firing 40 punisher shots, hitting on a re-rollable 2+ from 30" away.) But I'm facing the following dilemma: the major weakness I see in this list is the lack of command points. One solution to this would be the classic Grand Strategist + Kurov's Aquila combo, but that would mean giving up hugely useful tools like The Wulfen Stone, Armor of Russ, and Saga of the Hunter. Obviously playtesting will help me decide, but I'm wondering what you all think. Thanks in advance!

[707] Space Wolves Patrol Detachment (+0 Command Points)

[114] Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Bike (87), power fist (12), storm shield (15), Warlord (Saga of the Hunter), The Wulfen Stone (relic)

[121] Rune Priest on bike (111), runic stave (10), Living Lightning (WC 6), Tempest’s Wrath (WC 6), The Armor of Russ (relic)

[112] 5 Blood Claws (65), WGTL (26), thunder hammer (16), storm shield (5)

[68] Great Company Ancient (63), power axe (5)

[292] 6 Long Fangs (84), 4 missile launchers (100), lascannon (25), WGTL (26), Cyclone missile launcher (50), power axe (5), storm bolter (2)

[604] Adeptus Ministorum Outrider Detachment (+1 Command Points)

[200] Celestine (200)

[98] 5 Seraphim (55), 2 pairs of inferno pistols (36), plasma pistol (7)

[50] 5 Dominions (50)

[50] 5 Dominions (50)

[103] Immolator (68), Immolation flamer (35)

[103] Immolator (68), Immolation flamer (35)

[439] Astra Militarum Battalion Detachment (+5 Command Points)

Regiment: Vostroyan

[195] Tank Commander (167), punisher gatling cannon (20), hull heavy bolter (8)

[31] Company Commander (30), bolt pistol (1)

[60] Infantry squad (40), lascannon (20)

[60] Infantry squad (40), lascannon (20)

[60] Infantry squad (40), lascannon (20)

[33] Heavy weapons squad (18), 3 mortars (15)

Total Points: 1750

Total units: 17

Total Command Points: 3 (battle-forged) + 5 (battalion) + 1 (outrider) - 1 (additional relic) = 8

 

 

 

[fluger]

I'm excited to envision this on the table.

[Dusldorf]

A guy named Milan who runs battle-report.com recorded my second game from the tournament (he was excited to document units from the new SW dex in action), so here you can see the previous iteration of the list that I posted above. The land speeders dropped 10 points, but I don't think they compete with the new Long Fangs, especially since Long Fangs don't need a Wolf Lord or Bjorn to give them re-roll 1's to hit. Also, my strategy of castling up around a Rune Priest doesn't work nearly as well anymore, since Storm Caller went from WC 6 to WC 8 with the new dex.

As a youtuber has already pointed out, I screwed up by claiming cover for my Leman Russ and perhaps other vehicles despite them not being completely within cover. D'oh! But I also informed my opponent that he didn't have to leave the center objective in order to assault my Rhino, so I figure it's a wash 😛

Was a great game, and my first against Custodes. I didn't fully comprehend just how resilient they are until now. Makes me want to get an Astartes Librarian to get rid of invulnerable saves, but that wouldn't be very Space-Wolfy of me, would it? Better to run more Rune Priests and spam mortal wounds!

 

 

[WestRider]

7 hours ago, Dusldorf said:

As a youtuber has already pointed out, I screwed up by claiming cover for my Leman Russ and perhaps other vehicles despite them not being completely within cover. D'oh! But I also informed my opponent that he didn't have to leave the center objective in order to assault my Rhino, so I figure it's a wash 😛

They don't need to be completely within cover. Every Model in a Unit (just one in the case of most Vehicles) needs to be at least partially in the Terrain piece. Non-Infantry Models then need to be at least 50% Obscured. The FAQ actually ended up confusing the issue further rather than clarifying things, but when you pick it apart, that's how it works.

[Dusldorf]

While you're right in a general sense, I think the advanced rules for cover specifically state that a unit must be wholly on/within ruins to gain cover from it, which is what my Leman Russ and other vehicles were hiding behind.

BRB p.248:

"Infantry units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model."

 

[fluger]

Ahhh, the dulcet tones of Lorin.

[WestRider]

3 hours ago, Dusldorf said:

While you're right in a general sense, I think the advanced rules for cover specifically state that a unit must be wholly on/within ruins to gain cover from it, which is what my Leman Russ and other vehicles were hiding behind.

BRB p.248:

"Infantry units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model."

 

Yep, and the Designer's Commentary makes a distinction between "entirely within" and "wholly within". For the Unit to be "entirely within" the Terrain, at least part of every Model must be in the Terrain. For the Unit to be "wholly within" the Terrain, all parts of every Model must be within the bounds of the Terrain. The relevant part for Cover is: "All of the models in a unit need to be at least partially on or within terrain if any of the models are to receive the +1 bonus to their saving throw." It starts at the end of Pg. 2 in the Commentary and runs over onto Pg. 3.

There was another FAQ somewhere that ended up confusing the matter further, as I mentioned above, but I can't find it now. Hopefully it was removed due to being counter-productive. That was the likely source of confusion on the part of whoever (incorrectly) called you on that.

[Dusldorf]

Dang, well that just seems like a vortex of confusion. Glad I didn't reply to the youtube user, since I'm sure it would have created a headache 😛

[Dusldorf]

Played my latest list yesterday (see the first post in this thread) and it performed well against Necrons. Top performer was the Punisher tank commander by far. Every turn he put roughly 28 wounds onto a unit, killing an entire unit of scarabs and a unit of warriors on the first two turns, respectively. But I wasn't satisfied by the efficiency of the Long Fangs or the Blood Claws, so I went back to the drawing board. Next I'm going to try a supreme command detachment for my space wolves, in the following list. The new Hunters Unleashed rule makes character death stars particularly effective, since they're all guaranteed to be able to support each other in close combat should someone come knocking. The basic synergy between these units is also absurd: re-roll all hits in CC and +d3 wounds per turn thanks to the wolf priest, re-roll 1's to wound while at least 1 battle leader is around, and +1 attack to everyone from the wulfen stone. Plus, once my saga becomes an aura everybody will get +1 to wound against monsters and vehicles, allowing them to take out any big target with relative ease. As always, the Armor of Russ ensures that I'll be striking first against any singular big baddies like a daemon prince, or magnus, a shield captain, etc. I'll also be shielded from most shooting on the first turn because the immolators and Celestine will be in my opponent's face. To compensate for getting rid of the Long Fangs, I added a manticore. As an added bonus, this list has one more command point than last time 🙂

 

[600] Space Wolves Supreme Command Detachment (+1 Command Points)

[114] Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Bike (85), twin bolter (2), power fist (12), storm shield (15), Warlord (Saga of the Beastslayer), The Wulfen Stone (relic)

[121] Rune Priest on Bike (109), twin bolter (2), runic stave (10), Living Lightning (WC 6), Tempest’s Wrath (WC 6), The Armor of Russ (relic)

[114] Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Bike (85), twin bolter (2), power fist(12), storm shield (15)

[137] Wolf Priest on Bike (135), twin bolter (2)

[114] Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Bike (85), twin bolter (2), power fist (12), storm shield (15)

[597] Adeptus Ministorum Outrider Detachment (+1 Command Points)

[200] Celestine (200)

[91] 5 Seraphim (55), 2 pairs of inferno pistols (36)

[50] 5 Dominions (50)

[50] 5 Dominions (50)

[103] Immolator (68), Immolation flamer (35)

[103] Immolator (68), Immolation flamer (35)

[553] Astra Militarum Battalion Detachment (+5 Command Points)

Regiment: Vostroyan

[195] Tank Commander (167), punisher gatling cannon (20), hull heavy bolter (8)

[35] Company Commander (30), bolt pistol (1), power maul (4)

[60] Infantry squad (40), lascannon (20)

[60] Infantry squad (40), lascannon (20)

[60] Infantry squad (40), lascannon (20)

[143] Manticore (135), heavy bolter (8)

Total Points: 1750

Total units: 17

Total Command Points: 3 (battle-forged) + 5 (battalion) + 1 (outrider) + 1 (supreme command) - 1 (additional relic) = 9

 

 

[SPaceORK]

So why power fist over a thunder hammer on the BL?

Why 2 Battle leaders and not Lord + bl?

And why bikes and not jumpacks?

[Dusldorf]

Good questions:

 

1. Power fists are 9 points cheaper and points were tight. I would prefer thunder hammers obviously.

2. It's 3 battle leaders because they're cheaper and have the same number of attacks as wolf lords, only difference is one less wound and one less BS. Also in combat I don't need reroll 1s from a wolf Lord because the wolf priest is there.

 

3. Bikes for a few reasons: first, WGBLs got nerfed to 3 attacks in the codex but remain 4 attacks for the biker versions in the index. Second, the added toughness and wounds will make it more likely for the wolf priest's healing balms to do work (i.e., each model is harder to kill). Third, the guaranteed 20" advance makes it much easier to keep up with Celestine, the seraphim and immolators turn 1, and to reach distant objectives. The fact that they also have better shooting than jump packs units is a nice little bonus too. I know that fly is extremely valuable, and I am open to jump packs if my current scheme proves to have glaring weaknesses.

 

[SPaceORK]

1 hour ago, Dusldorf said:

Good questions:

 

1. Power fists are 9 points cheaper and points were tight. I would prefer thunder hammers obviously.

2. It's 3 battle leaders because they're cheaper and have the same number of attacks as wolf lords, only difference is one less wound and one less BS. Also in combat I don't need reroll 1s from a wolf Lord because the wolf priest is there.

 

3. Bikes for a few reasons: first, WGBLs got nerfed to 3 attacks in the codex but remain 4 attacks for the biker versions in the index. Second, the added toughness and wounds will make it more likely for the wolf priest's healing balms to do work (i.e., each model is harder to kill). Third, the guaranteed 20" advance makes it much easier to keep up with Celestine, the seraphim and immolators turn 1, and to reach distant objectives. The fact that they also have better shooting than jump packs units is a nice little bonus too. I know that fly is extremely valuable, and I am open to jump packs if my current scheme proves to have glaring weaknesses.

 

Those are all valid reasons...

So then shave the manticore, add basilisk and thunder hammers?

[Dusldorf]

I like that suggestion, thanks. I'll look into how I can convert a basilisk, since I don't have one 🙂

[WestRider]

49 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

 

So then shave the manticore, add basilisk and thunder hammers?

Just be careful. Manticores are proud of their fur, and do not take well to being shaved 😉

[SPaceORK]

On 8/31/2018 at 2:18 PM, Dusldorf said:

I like that suggestion, thanks. I'll look into how I can convert a basilisk, since I don't have one 🙂

Depending on how well glued the missiles/fur are on the manticore, you should be able to take them off relatively intact.  After that you can use various lengths of pipe to make the barrel. Cut out two triangles of  plastic, round the top corner, and you have the supports. then add some rivets and other bits to give it a more 40k look and you should be good. 

[Dusldorf]

1 hour ago, SPaceORK said:

Depending on how well glued the missiles/fur are on the manticore, you should be able to take them off relatively intact.  After that you can use various lengths of pipe to make the barrel. Cut out two triangles of  plastic, round the top corner, and you have the supports. then add some rivets and other bits to give it a more 40k look and you should be good. 

I would totally do that, thanks, but I remembered that my Manticore turret is a 3rd-party sculpt that could count as either, so I'm all set 🙂 (will post a pic later).

[Dusldorf]

I played the above list on Sunday at the kick-off event for my new challenge league (see the topic, "Just Dusldorf Things" in the Artificer's Forge section); the league uses the ITC Champions Missions Pack. First game was against necrons and I won by just a couple of points because poor deployment of my Leman Russ allowed his destroyers to kill it at the top of turn 1. My Seraphim were chasing them down the whole game, one model miraculously surviving each turn so that another could be resurrected with an Act of Faith. Second game was against a triple-Knight list with some AdMech thrown in, and I won that one too by four points. On the first turn he overextended with his melee knight, allowing my jump troops and bikers to surround and kill it without threat of retaliation from the other two. Second turn I was able to speed back and kill the other, non-Castellan knight while also spreading out across the board to kill his AdMech objective holders. For the last couple of turns the Castellan was the only thing left on the table and I just ran around avoiding it while racking up objective points. MVP that game was the Armor of Russ relic, which ensures that his Knight always fights last against my biker blob. Normally a knight player would spend 2CP to interrupt in the fight phase after one of my guys finished his attacks. He can still spend 2CP to interrupt, but the Armor of Russ means that he can't choose the knight to attack until all other models in that combat have attacked, so the stratagem becomes useless. I'm realizing that the biggest threat to my list is getting charged by two big baddies in one turn. Anyway, great event, here are some pics (fourth pic shows the necron player during our first game, and the fifth pic shows the knight player on the left facing off against daemons):

 

[Dusldorf]

Gonna try this out tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how often holy trinity works...every FA unit in the outrider can do it.

 

1750 mono-sisters

 

[730] Outrider: Ebon Chalice (+1 to faith test rolls—doesn’t apply to celestine)

[160] Celestine (160)

[134] 6 Dominions (60), combi-flamer (8), 4 meltaguns (56), simulacrum (10)

[105] 6 Dominions (60), combi-plasma (11), 2 storm bolters (4), flamer (6), meltagun (14), simulacrum (10)

[135] 10 Seraphim (110), plasma pistol (5), 2 hand flamers (6), 2 inferno pistols (14)

[98] Immolator (68), immolation flamer (30)

[98] Immolator (68), immolation flamer (30)

 

[495] Spearhead: Argent Shroud (+1 FP on a 4+ each time they kill a unit—doesn’t apply to penitents)

[45] Canoness (45), wrath of the emperor (relic)

[125] Exorcist (125)

[125] Exorcist (125)

[100] Penitent Engine (100)

[100] Penitent Engine (100)

 

[525] Battalion: Bloody Rose (+1A/+1S first round of combat—doesn’t apply to arcos/missionary/dialogus/hospitaller)

[49] Canoness (45), power sword (4), brazier of eternal flame (relic), warlord: indomitable belief

[39] Missionary (35), power sword (4), blade of admonition (relic)

[135] 9 Arco-flagellants (135)

[30] Dialogus (30)

[30] Hospitaller (30)

[55] 5 Battle Sisters, heavy bolter (10)

[55] 5 Battle Sisters, heavy bolter (10)

[55] 5 Battle Sisters, heavy bolter (10)

[77] Sororitas Rhino (73), 2 storm bolters (4)

 

Command points

3 (battle-forged)

+1 (outrider)

+1 (spearhead)

+5 (battalion)

-3 (2 extra relics)

=7 total

[fluger]

How'd it go?

[Dusldorf]

1 hour ago, fluger said:

How'd it go?

Went well. I played against Imperial Knights on Saturday in a narrative vigilus mission, Necrons on Sunday in a chapter approved matched play eternal war mission and won both games. It was a lot of fun using Divine Guidance and Holy Trinity on the melta dominions, and the Exorcists pulled more than their weight. Both games I managed to charge with the arcos and use the extremis trigger word strat, too. In the first game those 81 attacks were enough to kill an Armiger, while in the second it killed the majority of a Wraith unit. Celestine and seraphim are still great friends, and The Passion on Celestine is just disgusting. Both games I managed to charge with at least one penitent engine as well, which was great but not for the reasons you'd expect: the large base and double activation means you get an extra 12" of movement during the fight phase with which you an orbit an enemy unit and tie up more stuff. So that was a huge help. 

I think the biggest misconception about the new dex is about the impact of the vessel strat. I see its value but had no efficient opportunities to use it because to play the missions I had to spread out across the board. The strat is only useful if the mission doesn't punish you for death-starring your army. And even then you need to have a pretty spammy list, so that everyone can make the most of the same faith power. 

Bloody Rose order is a clear winner. It amped up my canoness and even allowed regular sisters to kill a unit of necron scarabs after being charged. I got too aggressive with some sisters against necron warriors, but the potential is still there. Argent Shroud didn't proc once in either game, so I might replace that one with 6+ FNP for my Exorcists just to be annoying. The +1 to faith checks order is great for the  Doms and Seraphim though. 

[fluger]

Yeah, having extra attacks at higher st really helps shore up a weakness.  

[Dusldorf]

Finally revamped my ITC list taking CA and Vigilus into account, thoughts welcome:

+++ ITC Sisters / Guard / Wolves (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [125 PL, 11CP, 2000pts] +++

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [25 PL, 3CP, 476pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [3CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [1CP]

Trophies of Fenris [-1CP]: Trophies of Fenris - 1 Extra Relic [-1CP]

+ HQ [25 PL, 476pts] +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 234pts]: Heavy flamer [14pts], Twin lascannon [40pts]

Rune Priest [7 PL, 124pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 2. Tempest's Wrath, Bolt pistol, Jump Packs [1 PL, 24pts], Runic axe [12pts], The Armour of Russ

Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Bike [6 PL, 118pts]: Saga of the Hunter, Storm shield [10pts], The Wulfen Stone, Thunder hammer [21pts], Warlord
. Bike [2pts]: Twin boltgun [2pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [54 PL, 5CP, 864pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [5CP] +

Detachment CP [5CP]

OPEN THE RELIQUARIES: 1 additional Relic of the Ecclesiarchy, -1 CP

Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose

+ HQ [11 PL, 209pts] +

Canoness [3 PL, 49pts]: Boltgun, Power sword [4pts], Relic: Blade of Admonition

Celestine [8 PL, 160pts]

+ Troops [12 PL, 135pts] +

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister [36pts]
. Sister Superior [9pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister [36pts]
. Sister Superior [9pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister [36pts]
. Sister Superior [9pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Fast Attack [14 PL, 189pts] +

Dominion Squad [5 PL, 56pts]
. 2x Dominion [20pts]
. Dominion Superior [12pts]: Bolt pistol, Storm bolter [2pts]
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon [12pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon [12pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

Dominion Squad [5 PL, 50pts]: 4x Dominion [40pts]
. Dominion Superior [10pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 83pts]
. 2x Seraphim [22pts]
. Seraphim Superior [11pts]: Bolt pistol, Bolt pistol
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons [25pts]: 2x Inferno Pistols [14pts]
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons [25pts]: 2x Inferno Pistols [14pts]

+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 125pts] +

Exorcist [7 PL, 125pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [10 PL, 206pts] +

Immolator [5 PL, 98pts]: Immolation Flamer [30pts]

Immolator [5 PL, 108pts]: Twin multi-melta [40pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [46 PL, 3CP, 660pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [3CP] +

Detachment CP [5CP]

Imperial Commander's Armoury [-1CP]: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest [-1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Vostroyan

Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Emperor's Fist Tank Company [-1CP]

+ HQ [26 PL, 373pts] +

Company Commander [2 PL, 31pts]: Bolt pistol [1pts], Chainsword

Tank Commander [12 PL, 172pts]: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolter [8pts], Relic (Emperor's Fist): Hammer of Sunderance
. Command Battle Tank [22pts]: Battle Cannon [22pts]

Tank Commander [12 PL, 170pts]: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolter [8pts]
. Command Punisher [20pts]: Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon [20pts]

+ Troops [9 PL, 120pts] +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman [36pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman [36pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman [36pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Laspistol

+ Elites [1 PL, 26pts] +

Astropath [1 PL, 26pts]: Laspistol, Nightshroud

+ Heavy Support [10 PL, 141pts] +

Basilisks [7 PL, 108pts]
. Basilisk [7 PL, 108pts]: Heavy Bolter [8pts]

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar [5pts]

[fluger]

Hammer of Sunderance looks legit.

[Lyraeus]

Looks fun and challenging 

[Dusldorf]

forgot to list kurov's on the other tank commander. the vigilus relic comes free w/ the specialist detachment. list has been edited.

second edit: i've been informed that the vigilus faq clarified that the relics aren't free and are just unlocked. removed kurov's and paid an extra 2cp for the SW detachment

third edit: i swapped the basilisk for a wyvern and the specialist SW relic for a power fist

fourth edit: i removed two storm bolters from the first dom squad and switched the wyvern back to a basilisk. i really need some indirect fire that's able to hurt high-T/Sv stuff and not just infantry

fifth edit: i dropped the second WGBL and therefore the SW vigilus specialist detachment, gave the warlord one a thunder hammer, added an astropath to protect the punisher leman (and get an extra deny/smite), added a company commander so that i can order my infantry squads, changed all BSS to bare-bones, swapped the seraphim hand flamers to inferno pistols, and dropped a couple of storm bolters from the first dom squad. feeling good about the list now.