tank hordes - what to do?

[barca]

The recent comments on the Enfilade thread brought this discussion back around again:

• What should an FoW gamer do to deal with hordes of cheap tanks (e.g. M3 Stuarts - Fighting First)?
• Now, the Axis player has Soviet/Russian hordes of cheap tanks to deal with.
• The Allied player might have to deal with cheap Italian tanks, as well.

Having matched the German "Afrika Korps" forces against the "Fighting First" Stuart horde several times, I can offer three lists:

######       Afrika Korps 109 Points
Panzer III Tank Company HQ (p.18)    2x Panzer III (short 5cm)    10
Panzer III Tank Platoon (p.19)    3x Panzer III (short 5cm)    15
Panzer III Tank Platoon (p.19)    3x Panzer III (short 5cm)    15
Panzer II Light Tank Platoon (p.21)    5x Panzer II (2cm)    10
- Forward Scouts    Unit gains scout (GtG while moving)    2
Africa Rifle Company HQ (p.28)    2x MP40 SMG Team    2
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28)    4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle    7
- Add sMG34 HMG    1x sMG34 Team    1
- Panzer-Knacker    Use once, AT3 Firepower 1+ in assaults    2
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28)    4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle    7
- Panzer-Knacker    Use once, AT3 Firepower 1+ in assaults    2
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29)    3x Captured 6 pdr    9
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29)    3x Captured 6 pdr    9
8.8cm Heavy AA Platoon (p.32)    3x 8.8cm AA gun    18

######    Afrika Korps 109 Points
Pure Luck (Command Cards)    Use once, re-roll a die    1
Brandenburgers (Command Cards)    Opponents first roll for air automatic fail    1
Panzer III Tank Company HQ (p.18)    2x Panzer III (short 5cm)    10
Panzer III Tank Platoon (p.19)    3x Panzer III (short 5cm)    15
Panzer III Tank Platoon (p.19)    3x Panzer III (short 5cm)    15
Panzer II Light Tank Platoon (p.21)    5x Panzer II (2cm)    10
- Forward Scouts    Unit gains scout (GtG while moving)    2
Africa Rifle Company HQ (p.28)    2x MP40 SMG Team    2
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28)    4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle    7
- Add sMG34 HMG    1x sMG34 Team    1
- Panzer-Knacker    Use once, AT3 Firepower 1+ in assaults    2
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28)    4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle    7
- Panzer-Knacker    Use once, AT3 Firepower 1+ in assaults    2
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29)    3x Captured 6 pdr    9
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29)    3x Captured 6 pdr    9
Marder (7.62cm) Tank-Hunter Platoon (p.32)    4x Marder (7.62cm)    16

########    Avanti 109 Points
Bersaglieri Weapons Company HQ (p.26)    2x Carcano Rifle Team    1
Weapons Platoon (p.26)    3x Breda MG Team, 1x Breda HMG Team, 1x 20mm anti-tank rifle    6
- 47mm gun    1x 47mm gun    2
Weapons Platoon (p.26)    3x Breda MG Team, 1x Breda HMG Team, 1x 20mm anti-tank rifle    6
- 47mm gun    1x 47mm gun    2
Weapons Platoon (p.26)    3x Breda MG Team, 1x Breda HMG Team, 1x 20mm anti-tank rifle    6
- 47mm gun    1x 47mm gun    2
47mm Anti-tank Platoon (p.27)    4x 47mm gun    8
47mm Anti-tank Platoon (p.27)    4x 47mm gun    8
Assault Engineer Platoon (p.32)    5x Breda MG and Carcano Rifle Team, 2x Brixia Mortar Team, 2x Flame-thrower Team    15
Autocannone 20mm AA Platoon (p.37)    2x Autocannone (20mm)    3
AB41 Armoured Car Platoon (p.33)    4x AB41 (20mm)    3
100mm Howitzer Battery (p.36)    4x 100mm Howitzer    12
AB41 OP Observation Post (p.36)    1x AB41 OP (20mm)    1
90mm on Lancia Anti-tank Battery (p.34)    3x Lancia (90mm)    18
Semovente SP battery (p.23)    4x Semovente (75mm)    16

#1: I used a list similar to this, but the one above has some improvements over what I fielded

#2: I used a list similar to this, but again, the one above is a refinement of what I used.

#3: I have not used an Italian list, yet, but it looks promising

#4: Not listed: some combination of an armored car company and a second formation

• Will look at list options in the Iron Cross book soon.

What you are facing: Speed, numbers of hulls/targets, large tank platoons, lots of flank shots against your own armor, lots of MGs.

Caveats: cheap guns at AT 7 (or less) can give you lots of shots against all those light tanks, but will struggle against many Russian tanks.

Optimizing for massed tanks will probably make you much less effective against infantry. My advice is to:

1. build a list you like
2. one that has some balance (combined arms) and
3. then use tactics, terrain and play the mission to defeat the armor horde.
4. Also look at Command Cards to add to your toolkit.

Experimentation can be fun.

Opinions?   Comments?   Advice?

 

 

[Souldier3]

As always smoke is a very very useful tool when used skillfully. I have heard a couple of times and most recently on the tactics discussion of the No Dice No Glory podcast of a good use of smoke.

The overall idea is to focus shooting on one group of tanks with the goal of removing them as a threat while using a smoke bombardment to nullify the other group that you are not shooting at. It will only help you one turn unless you have multiple batteries capable of smoke bombardment but hopefully if you pull it off correctly you have reduced the threat and will now take little damage in return fire in the enemy turn.

 

The other options that are now available at larger lists totals are to have something that dosent care how much light tank spam is coming. Churchills come to mind. they done care if its 30 or 100 stuarts. 1 churchill sitting on each of your objectives are impervious to anything that is coming at them with AT 7. Of course there are some serious downsides to this approach.

 

I think a balanced approach is best. 

As Dennis Miller says: "Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"