WoW January 2019 40k League interest?

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Ish said:

That’s true... Maybe we should come up with some sort of “League Detachment” chart?

Unlock a new slot or two each week, but it’s “unit type fixed” once you fill it. So in Week One, I could field two Tactical Squads. That “locks” those slots as Tactical Squads, but I could make them bigger or smaller, change their wargear, whatever other options they have... But they’d always be Tactical Squads.

Sounds like a headache to implement, especially in a balanced way.

Would work if it was just for one codex's worth of marines...

[Dark Trainer]

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

First, why require doubles? 750pt plays just fine in this edition. That said, no objections to doubles or 3-way battles if players want that. Just seems foolish to make the event require 4x players be present (increases odds that we won't all be able to play). I suggest making the first two missions work well for doubles, 3-way, and 2-way (normal) games. King of Hill is one of the better missions for 3-way games, as is capture the flag. 

Second, as asked but not answered above, is the plan we make entirely new armies for each week, or that we use the same models and just add the different from the previous week?

Third, if you start at 750, is the plan to limit unit selection, or should I expect the possibility of imperial knights (and the like) as opponents in 750pt games?

And for clarity, Starting at zero and acquiring 1500pts of models can be a daunting task and is rather demanding on my wallet. Painting isn't really my concern, it's buying the models. The beauty of a stretched out and low point escalation league is that I can actually buy new models and add them to my army as I learn what I'll need to face the local meta. This matters less if entirely new armies are made at each week, rather than carrying over the list from the previoius week.

And don't forget, just because we have league doesn't mean we still can't also meet at WOW on tuesday night to play other games of 40k (at whatever point level). Could meet, play our 750pt battle, and then play a 1500pt battle with another army. It's not like having the league overrides the WOW game night. 

Yes, 750 is a better starting point because 500 is really a patrol battle, and very limiting. As for knights (if someone really wants to escalate a knights list, you can't discriminate), this would be why doubles would be ideal, can balance some matches. However, i'm not forcing doubles, it will be optional/encouraged, but no points benefits, etc. It's just fun is all. 

 

As for bringing your leafblower...if there's no prize for winning, it's like OFCC, being a douche won't be motivating.

[Ish]

We might be falling for the classic gamers’ trap over over-planning all this.

Like the monkey trap where they put food in a box with a hole large enough for the money to put his hand in put too small for him to take his hand out unless he drops the bait... Gamers often have a tendency to over-plan when writing rules for ourselves.

We might just want to pick a set of point values for each week and then play. No monkey business.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ish said:

We might be falling for the classic gamers’ trap over over-planning all this.

Like the monkey trap where they put food in a box with a hole large enough for the money to put his hand in put too small for him to take his hand out unless he drops the bait... Gamers often have a tendency to over-plan when writing rules for ourselves.

We might just want to pick a set of point values for each week and then play. No monkey business.

I just like rules set in stone (or just written down), preferably as much in advance as possible.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dark Trainer said:

As for bringing your leafblower...if there's no prize for winning, it's like OFCC, being a douche won't be motivating.

Sigh, chuckles to self, 3rd try . Are we keeping units from match to match, just adding the new units as per the escalation increase? Or is each match essentially a new game at a new point level with a fresh army?

The leafblower at 750pts only has value if the league requires us to use the same units from the match to match. If I start at 750 and increase by 250pts each week, then if I want the take a leafblower at 1500pts it would need to be in that first week in order to fit the points for a big unit.

If week 1 is 750, and week 2 I make an entirely new 1k army, then the leafblower doesn't need to be added until the end. And more so, I can call my opponent a douche for bringing one at 750pts...

And if everyone brings a leafblower week 1, then nobody is a douche for bringing one. Could be fun.

 

[Guest]

Nevermind the bit on not having enough cash for 1500pts... 3x Getting Started Sets is an easy 1500pts for TAU

[Ish]

30x Firewarriors, 9x Crisis Suits, 3x Æthereals (you probably only need one)... Yeah, add a couple Broadsides and maybe a Tidewall and you’ve got a solid 2,000 Point Tau army.

[Torg]

12 hours ago, Dark Trainer said:

It only let's me keep the 3 poll questions up top. But I had one more question then, related to those who would be 'truly' growing an army. Don't respond if you already have mostly assembled armies. 

 

I need to know who would 'need' a slower paced league. below are my two league escalation plans (I can tweak the pacing too, just determining if we should end at 1500, 1750, or 2k). I usually get feedback from those with established forces to get past the 1k quickly. Only need to know if you NEED option B.

A) 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1500, 1750, 1750/2000

B) 750, 750, 1000, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1500 (or something similar where it ends at 1500)

I like the B set up.  Not a fan of doubles.  I’d rather try to get 2 quick games in and try things out a bit before getting to the bigger point games.  Allows me to noodle around as I’m building a new army and see what is effective. 

As far Ashe battles go ... what mission style are you thinking?  Ie. open war , open war modified... players pick at the start of their own battle (book or random or cards or whatever is agreed on).  Or will their be a published mission each week to play?

-d

[Kelharis]

10 hours ago, Ish said:

30x Firewarriors, 9x Crisis Suits, 3x Æthereals (you probably only need one)... Yeah, add a couple Broadsides and maybe a Tidewall and you’ve got a solid 2,000 Point Tau army.

Make 2 of the Ethereals into Cadre Fireblades, pretty easy conversion.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kelharis said:

Make 2 of the Ethereals into Cadre Fireblades, pretty easy conversion.

Why don't I want Ethereals? Just wondering, I'm very new to this edition's TAU, with my last functional TAU army being in 4th, when they first launched.

[Kelharis]

42 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Why don't I want Ethereals? Just wondering, I'm very new to this edition's TAU, with my last functional TAU army being in 4th, when they first launched.

Ethereals do not seem to be very useful in this meta. Granted, I have not used an ethereal, so there may be others who have better insight, but consider:

1. Fireblade is cheaper by 3-9 points depending on ethereal loadout

2. Ethereal invocations are very lackluster, a side from storm of fire, which requires you to stand still and you get the same result with one marker light hit.

3. Fireblade has volley fire ability, increasing your volume of fire substantially, even works on gun drones. 

4. Fireblade is your best option for the initial marker light hit on a unit, with his 2+ BS, allowing everything else to get the reroll 1s, including future marker light shots.

5. Ethereal is armed with melee weapons

6. Ethereal has 1 fewer wound.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Kelharis said:

Ethereals do not seem to be very useful in this meta. Granted, I have not used an ethereal, so there may be others who have better insight, but consider:

1. Fireblade is cheaper by 3-9 points depending on ethereal loadout

2. Ethereal invocations are very lackluster, a side from storm of fire, which requires you to stand still and you get the same result with one marker light hit.

3. Fireblade has volley fire ability, increasing your volume of fire substantially, even works on gun drones. 

4. Fireblade is your best option for the initial marker light hit on a unit, with his 2+ BS, allowing everything else to get the reroll 1s, including future marker light shots.

5. Ethereal is armed with melee weapons

6. Ethereal has 1 fewer wound.

1. Definitely cheaper, though both are insanely cheap when compared to characters in my other armies (CSM and tyranids)

2. Considering there's no test to use them and that the Ethereal remains cheap to employ, they are nice auras. 6+ ignore wounds, re-rolls 1s to hit for stationary units, re-roll advances, or slightly better moral odds. I will note that the Ethereal re-roll of 1s to shooting would apply against any target, but only for the tau within 6" of him/her. A markerlight shot would apply only to the unit it hits, but it would allow any tau to re-roll 1s against that one target. So both are rather situational.

3. That said, the key ability for the Ethereal is not the invocations, but the "Failure is not an option" ability which allows TAU models to use his leadership for morale checks. Tau have really shoddy morale which greatly limits their ability to field large units. Kroot, Drones, Strike squads and so forth, all can field decent sized units that will flee without decent leadership. As for comparing it to Volley fire, the units are cheap, take both, but if comparing just the two, the leadership buff will apply to more things than the volley fire buff will. Volley fire is useful too, but only on the very select units it applies to.

4. So again, taking both is best. Eithereal can make a stationary fireblade re-roll 1s for his initial BS2+ shot. That said, your argument above against this complains that it requires they remain stationary, but if the fireblade isn't stationary, he hits on 3+ because marklights are heavy weapons. Though if the target has the FLY keyword, then the Skyray Gunship also has BS2+ markerlights (base BS 3+ and velocity tracker). Though I'm unsure if it works like this, I think the Firesight Marksmen embarked in a Droneport with Marker drones should be able to detach them, and if they are in range of a Drone Controller, should also be at BS2+.

5. Fireblade is non-vehicle, so if he fires his markerlight, he can't fire any other weapons (part of the markerlight rules). So while he's got a pulse rifle, markerlight, and grenades, he really can't use more than one, and 2 of the 3 don't deal any damage. And if his value is a markerlight, then you you are dealing zero damage, except for overwatch. The Ethereal Melee weapons are easily AS useful as a rifle only usable in overwatch....

6. Both units are entirely dead if the opponent is given the option to attack them. T3, shoddy saves, no invulnerable. They rely on being out of LoS or otherwise protected via the CHARACTER rule. The Ethereal has a worse save and less wounds, but he can grant himself that 6+ ignore wounds ability, so I'd call them about even in terms of which weak model is the weakest. I will note that if including relic options, the Ethereal does have the "Solid-Image Projection Unit" which really isn't that bad for the goal of keeping your character out of melee, though it's probably a waste of a relic.

7. On an added note of comparison. While Embarked on one of the TAU open-topped fortifications, the Fireblade is the superior choice, as auras don't function while embarked, but he can still shoot his markerlight. That would be the main situation where the fireblade was superior, otherwise they are very much both equally as weak and equally as useful. 

[Dark Trainer]

I will not be limiting units to be locked into the league. Players should also have the freedom to experiment in an escalation league, not be locked into a unit for 7 weeks. However, they can feel free to use that unit for 7 weeks if they wish, great learning opportunity. 

As for Torg's question, I will be making 7 missions for the league. Nothing too out there, trying to make them matched play worthy. However, i've considered allowing folks play book missions too as an alternative if they so choose. Again, this is about motivation to get some units assembled/painted, re-learn rules, experiment, and just have fun

[Ish]

4 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Why don't I want Ethereals? Just wondering, I'm very new to this edition's TAU, with my last functional TAU army being in 4th, when they first launched.

I’m not saying you don’t want Æthereals... I’m saying you don’t need more than one. He’s a force-multiplier and he’s very good at it... But other Tau HQ choices offer other benefits. 

[Guest]

@Dark TrainerOh, you had mentioned using the rule of three (I think): we're following the rule of 2 for the first few games of this league, then going to the rule of 3 when we hit the right point level, correct?

So rule of 2 for the first 2 weeks, then rule of 3?

Or did you intend the rule of 3 for all of it?

[Dark Trainer]

6 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

@Dark TrainerOh, you had mentioned using the rule of three (I think): we're following the rule of 2 for the first few games of this league, then going to the rule of 3 when we hit the right point level, correct?

So rule of 2 for the first 2 weeks, then rule of 3?

Or did you intend the rule of 3 for all of it?

I haven't said anything about that. Haven't finished rules making, lots at work right now.

[Guest]

Just now, Dark Trainer said:

I haven't said anything about that. Haven't finished rules making, lots at work right now.

My mistake. Thanks for the swift reply.

[Weav]

Guys, I’m going to assist Matt with the administration and promotion of the league at WOW. Matt and I are working together on the particulars and I am super excited to help. Expect more details very shortly, including start date and scenarios. 

For the <insert 40K special character here>!!! 😁

[Lyraeus]

I am in. I have been painting many many many orks so that I could finally play with them and feel satisfied and now you tell me I only need to focus on a few things!?! 

 

Sign me up. Just need to know the rules and format please. Oh and if we are going to use any of the new Chapter Approved things

[Lyraeus]

On 12/3/2018 at 4:44 PM, Dark Trainer said:

Yes, 750 is a better starting point because 500 is really a patrol battle, and very limiting. As for knights (if someone really wants to escalate a knights list, you can't discriminate), this would be why doubles would be ideal, can balance some matches. However, i'm not forcing doubles, it will be optional/encouraged, but no points benefits, etc. It's just fun is all. 

 

As for bringing your leafblower...if there's no prize for winning, it's like OFCC, being a douche won't be motivating.

Heh... You mean my Nob Warbikers and Wartrike will have a target... Heh go go power claws and still have almost 300 points to play with! 

[Lyraeus]

On 12/4/2018 at 8:03 AM, paxmiles said:

Why don't I want Ethereals? Just wondering, I'm very new to this edition's TAU, with my last functional TAU army being in 4th, when they first launched.

You only really need one. Cadre Fireblades are strong HQ choices for their 2+ Marker Light. 

Ethereals are buff givers and while a few are nice there are disadvantages if they die. Which they do. Easily. 

 

Escalation league progression 

I am all for a double point week (750, 750, 1000, 1000,etc) as it's more paint time for me. 

 

With Chapter Approved out I wonder if we will be using some of the things from that or Vigilus such as custom characters or not. Need to know how much nodding I need to do. 

 

Guess I will build a fun 750 list... Well fun for orks

[Dark Trainer]

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

Guess I will build a fun 750 list... Well fun for orks

I'm considering the same. Actually playing my Orks for a change!

[Lyraeus]

1 hour ago, Dark Trainer said:

I'm considering the same. Actually playing my Orks for a change!

Yea, I am debating on my Evil Sunz Nob Warbikers for the potential anti knight with Kommandos 

Or I can go the loota and Grot bad moons... 

Or I can go pick up the 3 deff dreds I ordered and run them as Deathskulls for that sweet sweet invul, some Traktor Cannons and Kitt bashed Mek Gun variants... 

Options... It. Is a problem 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Ethereals are buff givers and while a few are nice there are disadvantages if they die. Which they do. Easily. 

There is no longer any penalty to Ethereal death. The "Price of Failure" ability just gives allows them to share leadership with other TAU EMPIRE units for morale check purposes.  

As for value to the army, the main advantage is if you want to pass morale checks for Drones, kroot, Piranhas, or Tetras. Tau just have really cruddy leadership, these units in particular are all leadership 6 with no special ability to ignore morale checks. Ethereal bumps them to leadership 9 for morale checks.

Regarding multiples, it really depends on how many cruddy leadership units you want to field. I really wish they had a deep strike option.

[Ish]

So we’re definitely going to kick off with 750 Points? 

Need to figure out which of my squads is brave enough to risk being spray primer’d in December.