Tau...

[Guest]

Picked up the TAU codex. Looking into the idea of running a TAU force. Last time I played TAU was in 4th, I think, and I don't have any of those models anymore (which is kinda good, as it allows me freeform army creation). That said, I keep running into weird rule obstacles in list creation. Maybe others can help with my rules questions. So far, just questioning fortifications:

1) TAU fortifications can only hold infantry. Does this mean I can't have drones for any units that begin embarked on fortifications?

2) Furthermore, despite being pictured in the codex, battlesuits (other than stealth suits) are not infantry, so cannot be placed on the fortifications as they are pictured on page 74-76, 103, and 119, right?

3) And GW's rule of 3 applies to the fortifications too, right?

[InfestedKerrigan]

Are drones vehicles? Since you say they aren't infantry, I must assume they are vehicles.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Anyway, they deploy outside the fortification, 2", to embark when they can.

 

I can't comment on the suits.

 

Yes.

[Guest]

Just now, InfestedKerrigan said:

Are drones vehicles? Since you say they aren't infantry, I must assume they are vehicles.

Neither, they only have the DRONE, <Specific type of Drone>, FLY, T'AU EMPIRE, and <Sept> keywords.

Most of the Battlesuits are similar, though the Stealth Suits are INFANTRY, the Riptide is a MONSTER, and the Stormsurge is TITANIC.

The Devilfish transport does mention it can transport DRONE models, but not BATTLESUIT models.

[Guest]

Ah, the Drone bit is mentioned in the GW FAQ

3 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Anyway, they deploy outside the fortification, 2", to embark when they can.

Basically as you had it, except they can't embark.

[Ish]

1) Strictly rules as written, no drones can embark inside Fortifications. They’ll need to “Combat Squad” and go off on their own.

2) GW’s photography department doesn’t worry about the rules, they just make pretty pictures.

3) Yes.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ish said:

2) GW’s photography department doesn’t worry about the rules, they just make pretty pictures.

They are pretty pictures...annoying though

[Guest]

Anyway, thanks for the help.

[Guest]

Hmm...so I got a starting list for my TAU. I plan to *escalate* towards it.

Tau Battalion (+5 CP)

HQ Ethereal (Maybe a second ethereal too)

HQ Fireblade

Elites Crisis Suits (3, mostly missile pods)

Elites Crisis Suits (3, mostly missile pods)

Troops Strike Squad (5)

Troops Strike Squad (5)

Troops Strike Squad (10, missile pod turret)

Fast Pathfinders (5, pulse drone)

Flyer Sun Shark Bomber

Flyer Sun Shark Bomber

 

Tau Fortification Detachment

Fortification Tau Tidewall Gunrig

 

Plus about a dozen marker drones

 

Total is about 1500pts. 8 CP. Present plan would be Dal'yth Sept (models count as in cover while stationary)

 

As for the why: 

-the first theme here is models that aren't very tall...I'm hoping the army will be easy to transport. Gunrigs and flyers should be able to be assembled in pieces that keep their profile short. I didn't really want the Crisis suits, but I couldn't figure out how to get the cash affordable firepower without suits.

-Pathfinders embark in the gunrig, which makes them more durable and makes the gunrig have better BS. The main goal here is protected pathfinders, I don't expect the gunrig to be amazing. Gunrig should benefit from Sept cover bonus, so should help stay alive. If I get this army completed, the next purchases would be to make this triplicate (3x gunrigs and 3x pathfinder teams), plus added 20-40 kroot. 

-Strike Squads, borrowed pulse drone from pathfinders, and fireblade form up to make a firebase on objectives. 

-Bombers, for starters, this my favorite model in the GW TAU line, and I'm really annoyed that the rule of 3 prevents me from spaming it. Rules-wise, it's not amazing and it'll probably die quick, but it's a markerlight that can't be charged without FLY, holds seeker missiles, has potent shooting, has movement phase mortal wound attacks, and I like the detaching drones mechanic. Ideally, I'll detach the drones turn 1, near a drone controller (I'm thinking the squad leader for Crisis suits will have one), then push my flyer forward.

-Crisis suits. I kinda hate these models. Crazy expensive this edition. But they come cheaply in the starting set and really fill space in the army. At some point, I'll probably replace them with something shorter. Still mid-long range missiles means they'd work well with my Sept, since they don't really need to move.

[Ish]

Only one non-character unit can be embarked on the Gunrig and you’ll definitely want someone in their to make the gun useful... But I think you should also attach a shieldline (or two). 

The shield line gets you 10 wounds at toughness 6, with a 4+ save (3+ for Dal’yth if standing still). That lets them ignore morale tests until the wall is destroyed. It can also reflect back a mortal wound for any save of 6+, not a huge bonus but not nothing either.

A mere 150 points gets you 10 fire warriors and a shield line. I wouldn’t play a Tau gunline without one or two.

[andy]

Beware of the Tidewall, it's a trap. The transports suppress the Fireblade and Ethereal buffs and both Kauyon & Mont'ka, plus the fortification detachment costs you one of your three (in most games) Commanders. The Gunrig requires a character (typically a Firesight Marksman) embarked to be even a bit effective... unless you play it as Sa'cea (to gain the reroll-a-miss trait). I love how they look and they're (kind'a) fun in a friendly game but the downsides are many.

I've tried putting Pathfinders in mine, but I think you're just better off forgoing the Tidewall and buying more Pathfinders with the points if you want to go down the Pathfinder path (cough). You get more flexibility, and more markerlights (on the first turn or two, at least).

I'm a fan of embedded markerlights over Pathfinders. Firesight Marksmen, Cadre Fireblades, Shas'ui w/ Markerlight all are untargetable... unlike Pathfinders and Marker Drones. And a savvy opponent will try very hard to take out those markerlights as early as possible and the drones are vulnerable (and at BS5, only marginally effective). IME, shield drones are a better investment than markers -- you can (and should) screen them using LOS and they're still effective, plus their FNP goes a ways.

[fluger]

1 hour ago, andy said:

Beware of the Tidewall...

[andy]

Regarding Pathfinders... if you decide to go that way, three words: Pulse Accelerator Drones. Break 'em off and park next to your Fire Warrior blobs, ideally out of LOS. T'au are all about stacking buffs.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, andy said:

Beware of the Tidewall, it's a trap. The transports suppress the Fireblade and Ethereal buffs and both Kauyon & Mont'ka, plus the fortification detachment costs you one of your three (in most games) Commanders. The Gunrig requires a character (typically a Firesight Marksman) embarked to be even a bit effective... unless you play it as Sa'cea (to gain the reroll-a-miss trait). I love how they look and they're (kind'a) fun in a friendly game but the downsides are many.

I've tried putting Pathfinders in mine, but I think you're just better off forgoing the Tidewall and buying more Pathfinders with the points if you want to go down the Pathfinder path (cough). You get more flexibility, and more markerlights (on the first turn or two, at least).

I'm a fan of embedded markerlights over Pathfinders. Firesight Marksmen, Cadre Fireblades, Shas'ui w/ Markerlight all are untargetable... unlike Pathfinders and Marker Drones. And a savvy opponent will try very hard to take out those markerlights as early as possible and the drones are vulnerable (and at BS5, only marginally effective). IME, shield drones are a better investment than markers -- you can (and should) screen them using LOS and they're still effective, plus their FNP goes a ways.

For starters, I really like fortifications. But to reply to your many statements:

Presently I have zero commanders, so fortifications aren't taking away from number of commanders. I do kinda want one, but just one for that orbital strike (chiefly because it sounds fun). I might have one of the FW commander suit variants in my bits bit, somewhere, but I don't recall. 

I'm aware that transports surpress auras. And I'm fully aware that only a single unit, plus characters, is allowed inside (as it is for every fortification, even the non-TAU versions). Pathfinders don't have any auras, plus their drones don't embark with them and are placed within 2" (which is a wider area due to the hull of the gunrig).

Regarding pathfinders, the unit is dirt cheap, but the rule of 3 applies to them, so I'm capped out at 3x units of 10. I'd still want 30, eventually, but at $35 per 5, I plan to get more later. Really wish they were in the getting started set.

As for the gunrig, I don't see why it needs a character. Putting any unit in it will allow it both movement and shooting at any target, and it can't use it's embarked unit's BS, so there's no difference between kroot and pathfinders in terms of what the gunrig does. That said, the point of giving it the Dal'yth Sept is that it doesn't move and gains cover, making it have a 3+ save. Since the pathfinders can shoot out of the gunrig, it just grants them an extra chance at survival and makes the opponent waste more shooting to remove them. 

Markerlights will benefit a gunrig, just as markerlights benefit any unit in the TAU codex. Markers don't need to be fired from the gunrig, as their effect is based on how many markers are already on the target. 5x marker hits (from any source) on a target means Gunrig is BS 4+, re-rolls hits, and ignores cover. That's not great, but I don't think I'll need a weapon that big against most enemies. But if I do find my really focus firing all the markers into one target, I feel this unit would be a helpful addition. And with 72" of range, he doesn't need to move (which again, ideal with my Sept).

I will also note that the pathfinders embarked meansure range from hull of the Gunrig, which includes that little tower that the gun is mounted to. Should grant pretty impressive LoS. 

As for Marker Drones, the plan was units of 1 marker drone. I fully see your point regarding durability. Might get some shield drones in there too, we'll see when the models arrive. 

I do intend to put markerlights on the strike squad leaders. I very much agree with putting them everywhere. 

2 hours ago, Ish said:

Only one non-character unit can be embarked on the Gunrig and you’ll definitely want someone in their to make the gun useful... But I think you should also attach a shieldline (or two). 

The shield line gets you 10 wounds at toughness 6, with a 4+ save (3+ for Dal’yth if standing still). That lets them ignore morale tests until the wall is destroyed. It can also reflect back a mortal wound for any save of 6+, not a huge bonus but not nothing either.

A mere 150 points gets you 10 fire warriors and a shield line. I wouldn’t play a Tau gunline without one or two.

Can't take a shieldline with the gunrig in the same slot. I love the shieldline too. Actually, I'm torn between getting a second fortification detachment (3x shieldlines with extra platform) and running a proper flyer squadron (with some FW flyers). But neither are options for my starting army (above) due to cash limitations.

This TAU codex is by far the most crippled by the 3 detachment limit and rule of 3. Logically, the TAU fortifications should be dedicated transports (which are exhempt from the rule of 3), but GW doesn't seem to value selling fortications en masse. 

 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, fluger said:

I wonder how much work it would be to modify the exposed TAU heads to look like they were admiral akbar's species...? Wouldn't be that hard...hmm

[andy]

12 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

As for the gunrig, I don't see why it needs a character. Putting any unit in it will allow it both movement and shooting at any target, and it can't use it's embarked unit's BS, so there's no difference between kroot and pathfinders in terms of what the gunrig does.

You're right, I was confusing the Gunrig's rules with the Droneport. You seem set on running the Tidewall stuff, so I wish you the best with it. It's an expensive ($) investment, I hope you aren't disappointed once you get a few games in.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, andy said:

You're right, I was confusing the Gunrig's rules with the Droneport. You seem set on running the Tidewall stuff, so I wish you the best with it. It's an expensive ($) investment, I hope you aren't disappointed once you get a few games in.

I'm prepared. I've got a fair amount of the non-TAU fortifications that GW royally screwed over this edition. At least the TAU ones can be buffed. 

[Ish]

25 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I wonder how much work it would be to modify the exposed TAU heads to look like they were admiral akbar's species...? Wouldn't be that hard...hmm

I found this set of alien heads on Shapeways when looking for potential Kill Team conversions. Only one mon calamari head in the set,  but the other alien heads would fit in with Tau too.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Ish said:

I found this set of alien heads on Shapeways when looking for potential Kill Team conversions. Only one mon calamari head in the set,  but the other alien heads would fit in with Tau too.

Super expensive, but very nice. I found a cheaper ($5 for 1) prepainted one, which apparently is part of the Star Wars Miniatures game. I guess the species is Mon Calimari. Anyway, Mon Calimari Mercanary is a model for that. 

Could also just attempt to make one with green stuff and chaos spawn bits.

I feel like Reaper should have made something like this by now, but finding it may be difficult. Hmm...

[Guest]

This guy too: http://www.rebelscum.com/SWminiUH43ackbar.asp 

[InfestedKerrigan]

Are pathfinders not troops?

[InfestedKerrigan]

Pretty sure rule of 3 is non-troop

[Ish]

4 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Pretty sure rule of 3 is non-troop

I’m pretty sure it’s a stupid rule, regardless.

[andy]

9 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Are pathfinders not troops?

Fast Attack

[Guest]

1 hour ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Pretty sure rule of 3 is non-troop

I checked a bit ago, it's Troops and Dedicated Transports are exempt from that rule of three. 

It's also per unit entry, so I could field 3 units of crisis suits and 3 units of Crisis suit bodyguards, which despite being the same models, have two different entries so are considered different units. 

And for clarity, that rule of 3 isn't strictly only 3. It goes up and down depend on the point level. Games up to 1k follow the rule of 2, Games up to 2k follow the rule of 3, games up to 3k follow the rule of 4, and so forth. This also alters the detachment limit by the same number. So games at 1.5k are following the rule of 2 and can include no more than 2 detachments.