Guest Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Okay, pre-Escalation List for tomorrow: ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (T'au Empire) [27 PL, 497pts] ++ + HQ + Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight Ethereal [2 PL, 45pts]: Honour blade + Troops + Breacher Team [2 PL, 35pts] . 4x Fire Warrior . Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse blaster Strike Team [4 PL, 88pts] . DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ Missile pod: Missile pod . Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle . 9x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle Strike Team [4 PL, 88pts] . DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ Missile pod: Missile pod . Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle . 9x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle Strike Team [2 PL, 50pts] . DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ Missile pod: Missile pod . Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle . 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle + Fast Attack + Tactical Drones [4 PL, 60pts]: 6x MV4 Shield Drone + Heavy Support + XV88 Broadside Battlesuits [7 PL, 92pts] . Broadside Shas'vre: 2x Plasma rifle, Heavy rail rifle, Seeker missile, Target Lock ++ Total: [27 PL, 500pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Got a game in with the above. King of hill type game. Kinda crazy game, started me vs Apathy Ales' blood angels. His army was basically 2x characters that viciously bee-lined to melee without being able to be overwatched. Then at about turn 2 or 3, Lyraeus' Orks and Jay's Admech joined the fray from opposite corners. It was fun. When we ended, lyraeus was very close to the hill, but hadn't claimed it, jay was a bit further, and both apathy ales and I were nearly wiped off the table. 2 main take aways. First, my list isn't strong enough and I need to start building stronger lists. Second, TAU are more durable in melee than i give them credit for (they're still terrible at it, but they don't die right away, like I tend to think they do). Edit: Third take away is that I desperately need more ways of dealing mortal wounds. Those darn invulnerable saves are crushing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 So I converted up a broadside for last game out of one of my crisis suits, after finding some metal broadside railguns in my bits bin. Kinda an out of place unit for my plans, as the Dal'yth tactic grants cover for being stationary, but with a 2+ base save, the broadside doesn't really benefit from cover. Gave it a target lock, so it could move and fire, since it wasn't benefiting from the trait anyway. Interesting unit. Really expensive. I did like having the AP. Very useful against marines. I don't know if his cost was justified. I don't think the seeker was, but the target lock was in that mission (king of the hill). I will note, in hindsight, that while he didn't benefit from the trait having 2+ armor, the Shield Drones I gave him would have benefited, and didn't because they had to move to keep up. Stationary broadsides might actually work well for me. Might get more of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 40 minutes ago, paxmiles said: So I converted up a broadside for last game out of one of my crisis suits, after finding some metal broadside railguns in my bits bin. Kinda an out of place unit for my plans, as the Dal'yth tactic grants cover for being stationary, but with a 2+ base save, the broadside doesn't really benefit from cover. Gave it a target lock, so it could move and fire, since it wasn't benefiting from the trait anyway. Interesting unit. Really expensive. I did like having the AP. Very useful against marines. I don't know if his cost was justified. I don't think the seeker was, but the target lock was in that mission (king of the hill). I will note, in hindsight, that while he didn't benefit from the trait having 2+ armor, the Shield Drones I gave him would have benefited, and didn't because they had to move to keep up. Stationary broadsides might actually work well for me. Might get more of these. Mass fire from the High Yield Missle Pods and Smart Missiles with the AP adding support is a great load out as well. 16 shots is crazy. If you put your marker light on the target the reroll to 1's is huge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Wouldn’t Dal’yth Sept help mitigate AP weapons, at least a bit? Base Save 2+, -1 from enemy AP, +1 from Cover... Final Save is still 2+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Ish said: Wouldn’t Dal’yth Sept help mitigate AP weapons, at least a bit? Base Save 2+, -1 from enemy AP, +1 from Cover... Final Save is still 2+ Correct. Doesn't work against melee and anything with decent ap will ruin them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Ish said: Wouldn’t Dal’yth Sept help mitigate AP weapons, at least a bit? Base Save 2+, -1 from enemy AP, +1 from Cover... Final Save is still 2+ I've been unclear how this is calculated. My understanding is that Base save cannot get better than 2+, and additions are resolved before subtractions. But I'll admit that I don't always follow this, mostly because I'm not sure if I'm accurate or not. So because additions happen first, the 2+ remains 2+ with cover and then the penalty is applied, making it 3+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 2-1+1=2 2+1-1=2 Order of operations doesn’t really matter, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, Lyraeus said: Doesn't work against melee and anything with decent ap will ruin them Yeah, they're still TAU....there's not really a melee solution once the enemy reaches us (other than falling back if we survive). And solid AP ruins most things. I can take a 4++ on the suits, but that's still not a good save to rely on if the opponent has mostly solid AP weapons. 12 minutes ago, Ish said: 2-1+1=2 2+1-1=2 Order of operations doesn’t really matter, Order of operations does matter. Normal math, you are correct. In a game with it's own rules, their order of operations supersedes the well designed actual math order of operations. I recall that GW says to do addition, then do subtraction. They also state that 2+ is the best my armor save can get. It becomes: Base 2+ improved by 1 to a max of 2+. Result is 2+. That's because 2+ is the best it can get. Armor save is then degraded by 1, resulting in 3+ armor. But I could certainly be misreading things. It barely comes up in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, paxmiles said: Yeah, they're still TAU....there's not really a melee solution once the enemy reaches us (other than falling back if we survive). And solid AP ruins most things. I can take a 4++ on the suits, but that's still not a good save to rely on if the opponent has mostly solid AP weapons. Order of operations does matter. Normal math, you are correct. In a game with it's own rules, their order of operations supersedes the well designed actual math order of operations. I recall that GW says to do addition, then do subtraction. They also state that 2+ is the best my armor save can get. It becomes: Base 2+ improved by 1 to a max of 2+. Result is 2+. That's because 2+ is the best it can get. Armor save is then degraded by 1, resulting in 3+ armor. But I could certainly be misreading things. It barely comes up in game. It really doesn't matter. If you apply the AP then the cover or apply the cover then the AP it won't matter because it's factored in. Ultimately though to make things simple, Apply AP first then cover. This will allow things like Broadsides to benefit from the cover as they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Just now, Lyraeus said: It really doesn't matter. If you apply the AP then the cover or apply the cover then the AP it won't matter because it's factored in. Ultimately though to make things simple, Apply AP first then cover. This will allow things like Broadsides to benefit from the cover as they should. You are changing the order of operations in the rules, here, and subsequently getting different results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, paxmiles said: You are changing the order of operations in the rules, here, and subsequently getting different results. I am not. AP is calculated for cover. Check the BRB. It also helps that terminators can gain the benefits of cover but their save can not get better than a 2+ after everything. So against AP 0 they have a 2+ save Against AP -1 they get a 2+ save Against AP -2 they get a 3+ save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Just now, Lyraeus said: I am not. AP is calculated for cover. Check the BRB. It also helps that terminators can gain the benefits of cover but their save can not get better than a 2+ after everything. Is it worded as 2+ "After everything" or just that it cannot get better than 2+? I'm under the impression that it's the latter, but I could certainly be misremembering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, paxmiles said: Is it worded as 2+ "After everything" or just that it cannot get better than 2+? I'm under the impression that it's the latter, but I could certainly be misremembering it. And AP -1 or better removes that 2+. The "gets better than a 2+" is so Bolter fire and your Tau guns are not. Giving terminators a 1+ save Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lyraeus said: And AP -1 or better removes that 2+. The "gets better than a 2+" is so Bolter fire and your Tau guns are not. Giving terminators a 1+ save I'll have to check, you clearly don't get my question (or aren't explaining it in a way I comprehend). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Found it. Yeah, I'm wrong, there's no cap on saves this edition. Rules allow a 0+ save if I can achieve those modifiers. The failing on 1s ignores the modifiers, that's how they handled it this edition. Too many editions and games swirling in my head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraeus Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 minute ago, paxmiles said: Found it. Yeah, I'm wrong, there's no cap on saves this edition. Rules allow a 0+ save if I can achieve those modifiers. The failing on 1s ignores the modifiers, that's how they handled it this edition. Too many editions and games swirling in my head... 4 minutes ago, paxmiles said: I'll have to check, you clearly don't get my question (or aren't explaining it in a way I comprehend). There are caps as you can't have a 1+ save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lyraeus said: There are caps as you can't have a 1+ save. Maybe in the FAQ, but not in the rulebook. But the there's no real difference between a 1+ save and a 2+ save if you auto fail on 1s regardless of modifiers. It may make you more resistant to AP, but no difference against 0 ap. And strictly speaking, your save remains your save, you just have modifiers. I don't recall the requirements for your stratagem that eats tanks, but offhand, seems like meganobz would be a good target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 hours ago, Ish said: Looks familiar, what is that from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelharis Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, paxmiles said: Looks familiar, what is that from? Clue the movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, Kelharis said: Clue the movie I should watch that again. I recall enjoying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 TAU doublecheck. Does Advanced Targeting System apply to relic weapons? I assume it does, but usually relics in other armies can't be modified, so I feel I should ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 I would assume it does, since Relics (or rather "Signature Systems") that replace one of the character’s existing weapons still require you to pay the cost of the weapon that is being replaced... A Relic weapon is basically just an enhancement added to a weapon. So, I'd say something that enhances all of a model's weapons should still apply. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 So for today's week 1 Escalation League, I think I'm going to go with: ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (T'au Empire) [31 PL, 500pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Emergency Dispensation (1 Relic) T'au Empire Sept Choice: Dal'yth Sept + HQ + Commander in XV8 Crisis Battlesuit [7 PL, 121pts]: 3. Tenacious Survivor, Early warning override, 2x Fusion blaster, Onager gauntlet, Shield generator, Warlord Ethereal [2 PL, 45pts]: Dynamic mirror field, Honour blade + Troops + Strike Team [2 PL, 38pts] . Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle . 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle Strike Team [2 PL, 38pts] . Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle . 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle Strike Team [2 PL, 53pts] . DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ Missile pod: Missile pod . Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle . 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle + Elites + XV8 Crisis Bodyguards [16 PL, 205pts]: 6x MV1 Gun Drone . Crisis Bodyguard: Advanced targeting system, Drone controller, Plasma rifle . Crisis Bodyguard: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer . Crisis Bodyguard: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer ++ Total: [31 PL, 500pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Decided to forgo the reliance on markerlights at this point level. Also going to try "melee" tau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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