Tau...

[Guest]

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/04/40k-faq-the-rule-of-three.html 

[InfestedKerrigan]

2 hours ago, andy said:

Fast Attack

Oh yeah, devilfish squad.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Ish said:

I’m pretty sure it’s a stupid rule, regardless.

I like the rule of three, more or less, but I think it needs more exceptions. 

My suggestion would be to remove the rule of three on slot specific detachments. For example, an Air Wing Detachment should not use the rule of 3 for flyer slot units. A Spearhead Detachment should not limit heavies. These slot specialized detachments already get low CP. Same logic to Outrider, Vanguard, Super-Heavy and Supreme Command detachments. Basically, if you want to spam something, you can, but it means wasting potential CP and detachments. Seems reasonable to me.

I'd also add a Dedicated Transport Detachment, should players want to bring just dedicated transports. I'd do it like the Air Detachment (1CP for 3-5 dedicated transports).

I also think Fortifications with the TRANSPORT keyword should be allowed to serve as dededicated transports in any detachment that allows dedicated transports (and also ignore the rule of 3, like the other dedicated transports). 

[Guest]

As is, if I buy two boxes of that Renegade knight set (2 knights per box), I end up with a knight that I can't use for chaos because the Renegade knights are only a single unit entry, so you can only field 3 of them in a 2k list. Granted, I could still field Renegade Amigers or a Renegade Dominus. But when the detachment calls for 3-5 super heavies and I own 4, but can't field 4 due to GW's rule of three, that's just crap.

Example above, I haven't bought the renegade knight set. 

[Lord Hanaur]

On 12/3/2018 at 4:13 PM, paxmiles said:

Picked up the TAU codex. Looking into the idea of running a TAU force. Last time I played TAU was in 4th, I think, and I don't have any of those models anymore (which is kinda good, as it allows me freeform army creation). That said, I keep running into weird rule obstacles in list creation. Maybe others can help with my rules questions. So far, just questioning fortifications:

1) TAU fortifications can only hold infantry. Does this mean I can't have drones for any units that begin embarked on fortifications?

2) Furthermore, despite being pictured in the codex, battlesuits (other than stealth suits) are not infantry, so cannot be placed on the fortifications as they are pictured on page 74-76, 103, and 119, right?

3) And GW's rule of 3 applies to the fortifications too, right?

1:  remember the rules for T'au make the distinction between Drones that are part of the unit.  So Drones with vehicles start as part of the vehicle and then once they are separated, they cannot re-enter.

2:  ON a fortification, not in one.  Just like being on a building, it's fine to be on one.

3:  The rule of 3 does indeed apply.

[Lord Hanaur]

On 12/4/2018 at 10:35 AM, paxmiles said:

Hmm...so I got a starting list for my TAU. I plan to *escalate* towards it.

Tau Battalion (+5 CP)

HQ Ethereal (Maybe a second ethereal too)

HQ Fireblade

Elites Crisis Suits (3, mostly missile pods)

Elites Crisis Suits (3, mostly missile pods)

Troops Strike Squad (5)

Troops Strike Squad (5)

Troops Strike Squad (10, missile pod turret)

Fast Pathfinders (5, pulse drone)

Flyer Sun Shark Bomber

Flyer Sun Shark Bomber

 

Tau Fortification Detachment

Fortification Tau Tidewall Gunrig

 

Plus about a dozen marker drones

 

Total is about 1500pts. 8 CP. Present plan would be Dal'yth Sept (models count as in cover while stationary)

 

As for the why: 

-the first theme here is models that aren't very tall...I'm hoping the army will be easy to transport. Gunrigs and flyers should be able to be assembled in pieces that keep their profile short. I didn't really want the Crisis suits, but I couldn't figure out how to get the cash affordable firepower without suits.

-Pathfinders embark in the gunrig, which makes them more durable and makes the gunrig have better BS. The main goal here is protected pathfinders, I don't expect the gunrig to be amazing. Gunrig should benefit from Sept cover bonus, so should help stay alive. If I get this army completed, the next purchases would be to make this triplicate (3x gunrigs and 3x pathfinder teams), plus added 20-40 kroot. 

-Strike Squads, borrowed pulse drone from pathfinders, and fireblade form up to make a firebase on objectives. 

-Bombers, for starters, this my favorite model in the GW TAU line, and I'm really annoyed that the rule of 3 prevents me from spaming it. Rules-wise, it's not amazing and it'll probably die quick, but it's a markerlight that can't be charged without FLY, holds seeker missiles, has potent shooting, has movement phase mortal wound attacks, and I like the detaching drones mechanic. Ideally, I'll detach the drones turn 1, near a drone controller (I'm thinking the squad leader for Crisis suits will have one), then push my flyer forward.

-Crisis suits. I kinda hate these models. Crazy expensive this edition. But they come cheaply in the starting set and really fill space in the army. At some point, I'll probably replace them with something shorter. Still mid-long range missiles means they'd work well with my Sept, since they don't really need to move.

I just won a tournament as T'au Empire using a Brigade (yes really!).  The Gunrigs were great.  However I would tell you not to take the Pulse Drone and to make your Pathfinders upgunned with Rail Rifles.  the Gunrig is there to protect them and more of them would be better.

Also, Dal'yth does not prove AS great as you would think because the T'au are so good mobile now.  I press my army up the board with regularity and wit hthe list you have, you might be too.  So in that light I might suggest Vior'la (if you take a 12 man Fire Warrior Squad) or T'au Sept.  Cover doesn't suck but having to sit still just isn't great when you have so many units that will want to move.  Theres only 2x5 FW you have here that will regularly use that and at 5 strong...  I'm not sure it will do enough good.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

1:  remember the rules for T'au make the distinction between Drones that are part of the unit.  So Drones with vehicles start as part of the vehicle and then once they are separated, they cannot re-enter.

2:  ON a fortification, not in one.  Just like being on a building, it's fine to be on one.

3:  The rule of 3 does indeed apply.

Drones don't detach from the Gunrig, you are thinking of the droneport. Gunrig is the one with the gun...

Apparently you can't place models on top of others, someone already corrected me on this one.

2 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I just won a tournament as T'au Empire using a Brigade (yes really!).  The Gunrigs are great.  However I would tell you not to take the Pulse Drone and to make your Pathfinders upgunned with Rail Rifles.  the Gunrig is there to protect them and more of them would be better.

Also, Dal'yth does not prove AS great as you would think because the T'au are so good mobile now.  I press my army up the board with regularity and wit hthe list you have, you might be too.  So in that light I might suggest Vior'la (if you take a 12 man Fire Warrior Squad) or T'au Sept.  Cover doesn't suck but having to sit still just isn't great when you have so many units that will want to move.  Theres only 2x5 FW you have here that will regularly use that and at 5 strong...  I'm not sure it will do enough good.

 

Pretty sure I mentioned it above, the pulse drone isn't there for the pathfinders. It can't embark in the gunrig anyway, as per the TAU faq. But I can place it within 2" of the gunrig and use it to buff the Strike Squad (which is probably deployed in front of the gunrig).

Might pick another Sept, this is just my starting point. Dal'yth looks easy to use and easy to remember. Tau codex doesn't even give them a paint scheme, so free form on that.

I will note that despite being told tau are mobile, they don't seem to move much as opponents for me. I think it's probably because i struggle against them with my CSM, so they don't really need to move much. I mean, they move when they fall back, but cover doesn't apply in melee anyway, so much of a loss there.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Where does it say you can't place models on the battlements of fortifications?

[Lord Hanaur]

52 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Drones don't detach from the Gunrig, you are thinking of the droneport. Gunrig is the one with the gun...

Apparently you can't place models on top of others, someone already corrected me on this one.

Pretty sure I mentioned it above, the pulse drone isn't there for the pathfinders. It can't embark in the gunrig anyway, as per the TAU faq. But I can place it within 2" of the gunrig and use it to buff the Strike Squad (which is probably deployed in front of the gunrig).

Might pick another Sept, this is just my starting point. Dal'yth looks easy to use and easy to remember. Tau codex doesn't even give them a paint scheme, so free form on that.

I will note that despite being told tau are mobile, they don't seem to move much as opponents for me. I think it's probably because i struggle against them with my CSM, so they don't really need to move much. I mean, they move when they fall back, but cover doesn't apply in melee anyway, so much of a loss there.

I know that it doesn't go in the Gunrig.  However you have to deploy them at the same time and you cant deploy them in the Gunrig round 1...which exposes the drone and Pathfinders... for a round, and its not that big an investment in firepower to knock it out.  You might catch someone once with it but...

 

 

[Lord Hanaur]

12 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Where does it say you can't place models on the battlements of fortifications?

I do not think it says that anywhere.  You can jump on top of fortifications as far as i know.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Where does it say you can't place models on the battlements of fortifications?

Well, the unit embarked can be placed there for decorative purposes.

But I asked the question in that other thread, the 40k-specific thought thread. Reply was this:

On 12/2/2018 at 7:38 PM, Ish said:

No, you cannot place a model on top of another model. Models can only "be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse ... scenery." (WH40k Core Rules, pg. 3)

Quote

Moving
A model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet. No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls,  but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery. 

 

LH is replying to the idea of placing a drone/battlesuit on top of fortication, despite it being unable to embark inside it.

Granted, topic is forticications bought as part of the army with a unit profile, not terrain pieces that are just on the table.

[Guest]

From the TAU FAQ:

Quote

Q: Can an Infantry unit with accompanying Drones be deployed within a Fortification if the Drones cannot embark inside that Fortification?

A: Yes, but the Drones themselves cannot embark inside the Fortification – instead they must be set up within 2" of the Fortification when their unit is deployed within it.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I know that it doesn't go in the Gunrig.  However you have to deploy them at the same time and you cant deploy them in the Gunrig round 1...which exposes the drone and Pathfinders... for a round, and its not that big an investment in firepower to knock it out.  You might catch someone once with it but...

See quote in my previous post. You can directly deploy the pathfinders into the Gunrig. Their drones deploy within 2" of the gunrig, which effectively grants a wider deployment zone for the drones.

[Guest]

As for the durability of gunrig, yes, it's low in durability. I mean, it's t7 with a 3+ save (due to cover), and 10 wounds, but that's only what an SM Rhino has in durability without cover. But nothing in the TAU codex is particularly durable.

If they destroy it turn 1, no big deal. It's main role is a shell for the pathfinders. Means that the opponent has to destroy the vehicle BEFORE they can destroy the pathfinders, and that's really as good as I can do. In the role of this vs a devilfish, the main thing is that the pathfinders can't shoot of out of the devilfish and disembarking means moving, so imposes a penalty to moving a firing the markerlights due to them being heavy weapons. So if the opponent doesn't destroy the transport turn 1, then the gunrig shines because the pathfinders can shoot at no penalty.

And the devilfish is very similar in cost the gunrig (the other fortifications are cheaper, though).

Eventually, I want 3 of them, which would help increase the odds that any survive, but that's something for another time as I just don't have the cash to get everything I want at the start.

[Ish]

If a markerlight delivery system is your goal, a Cadre Fireblade in a Drone Port is probably the most efficient: five markerlight shots all hitting on a 2+... and you can toss 5-9 Pathfinders into it with him. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

Pax, reconcile Terrain and Fortifications. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Pax, reconcile Terrain and Fortifications. 

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Ish said:

If a markerlight delivery system is your goal, a Cadre Fireblade in a Drone Port is probably the most efficient: five markerlight shots all hitting on a 2+... and you can toss 5-9 Pathfinders into it with him. 

I do like that option. I had debated between the two, but ultimately decided the the Fireblade was better suited to bolster the Strike squad. 

There is another option here which I'm unclear if it works or not. Do the drones via the drone port benefit from a Drone Controller? Like if a Firesight Marksmen is embarked in the drone port so they use his BS 3+, then a Crisis suit with drone controller is with 6" of the detached drones, does the drone controller's +1 to hit apply to make a 2+ hit? Or since they aren't using their own BS, does it not apply?

The Skyray also has dual BS2+ markerlights if the target has FLY (BS3+ vs non-FLY).

 

[Guest]

I have been thinking, though, that I really have very little experience with TAU. Just theory hammer until they arrive.

[InfestedKerrigan]

3 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I'm not sure what you mean.

 Reread the rules on fortifications and how it relates to terrain. That is where your answer is.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

 Reread the rules on fortifications and how it relates to terrain. That is where your answer is.

I don't think I asked a question here. I don't know of any fortification specific rules. The ones with profiles are treated as models in your army. They use keywords and such. As I said before, a unit already embarked can be placed on top in a decorative manner, but that's it. They aren't terrain. Not sure what you are getting at. If you have a point to make, please be less vague. 

[Lord Hanaur]

On 12/5/2018 at 2:08 PM, paxmiles said:

See quote in my previous post. You can directly deploy the pathfinders into the Gunrig. Their drones deploy within 2" of the gunrig, which effectively grants a wider deployment zone for the drones.

No.  Because the pathfinders are not in the gunrig.  They are "off the board".  Just like an aura, and so on.  Unless some Faq exists but otherwise, no.

 

Edit:  ah.  An FAQ!  Okay that changes things.  I need to read up then.  Sorry.  Didnt know that faq.

[andy]

Crisis Suits, Broadsides and Ghostkeels all receive a sizable drop in points in CA18, and the Missile Pod (and other wargear) too. Your planned Crisis teams just got a lot more affordable, Pax.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, andy said:

Crisis Suits, Broadsides and Ghostkeels all receive a sizable drop in points in CA18, and the Missile Pod (and other wargear) too. Your planned Crisis teams just got a lot more affordable, Pax.

Yay? Makes room to buy more models....

I was hesitant to attach triple missile pods to crisis suits due to the high cost of doing so. Perhaps I can afford it now. Plan before, though not written above, was 2x missile pods and 1x flamer for the basic, then Drone Controller and 2x missile pods for the squad leader. With a Drone, units were 299pts each. Way too expensive, but as army fillers, pretty awesome.

With such a high cost, the transition between Crisis into Broadsides would be easy, or so the plan was.

Though the more I think about it, I suppose I could just convert the Crisis Suits into broadsides...was kinda thinking it might be nice to own an army without conversions, though..hmm

[Kelharis]

You really should take the time to magnetize your suits, Its very easy to do, and makes choosing what to arm with at any given time in the meta easy. If you need any advice on it, or pointers I'd be happy to help point you in the right direction.