sergentzimm Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I have been to OFCC's and yes the whole reason to drop it is because of the style of the event. Make the best sportsmanship award all about favorite opponent pins or something less subjective and scored. There are too many ways to game the system and yes that does happen at the event, I have seen it. The event should be about having fun, not worrying if your opponent hates tyranids for example. Or if your team games who they give the favorite opponent pins out to to not give the teams in the running more points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Can we all just agree not to be dicks and carry on? Not dismissing your argument and this will be my first OFCC so I'm just operating on assumptions but isn't that the whole point of being invitational? A bunch of Dads, grads, and similar dudes nerding out together and making pew pew noises? Whatever the group decides I'm cool with that. I'll be that guy in the bottom tier with custom shot objectives, come find me and we'll roll some dice;) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Hopefully the HOG will see my question and answer it. People trying to knock my sportsmanship because of my list are one thing, but an event that says I can bring anything go nuts, and then can ding me on points based on comp are very different things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Mystery Hidden Shot Objectives FTW! This may have to be a giveaway! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Honestly, I'd prefer not to have any scoring of any kind at OFCC, but that's OK. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 If you came to my house and were thirsty, I'd tell you to make yourself at home. That's not permission to open my Johnny Walker Blue Label, grab my lady's butt and throw my steaks on the Bbq. Open list selection is same idea. Take what you want, just be a good guest;) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 If you came to my house and were thirsty, I'd tell you to make yourself at home. That's not permission to open my Johnny Walker Blue Label, grab my lady's butt and throw my steaks on the Bbq. Open list selection is same idea. Take what you want, just be a good guest;) But its not the same. It be like us going to another place that had invited us both and telling us to bring whatever we wanted and then you saying if I brought beer that I shouldn't have brought that cause you don't like it. So while I appreciate what you're trying to say, it doesn't hold a lot of water. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 OOHHHH, OFCC drama... Time to grab the popcorn. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Yeah if you are going to be selective about some things, be consistent. Don't tell us to bring whatever we want then say that some things might get voted down depending on what your opponent thinks of the item. It's too subjective. Giving your opponent an easy out to knock you points and it will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Discussion isn't drama. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I think the team component and match up select are not being taken into consideration. These go a long way to balance how lists are accepted. You are not an individual going, you are a team. Captain will mitigate who you play and if they are any good will fake personality and lists into consideration with pairings. This is more like speed dating with partners. Pass me some popcorn I will be the guy talking the whole time unless you stuff food into my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Hey Tanks, (first off I love your name) I think our opinions aren't that far from each other's. Following your analogy: bringing beer to most things is ok, bringing beer to an intervention isn't. Yeah allowing you to take stuff from any source you'd like opens the door to abuse but it isn't permission for abuse. I think most of this will get hashed out by the list committee so we're probably debating a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I can see we won't agree. It does seem semantics to a degree. I guess we'll have different interpretations. And thanks, the AM book has now made it possible for me to live up to it again. lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savion47 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I will say that we look at sportsmanship scores very closely every year as this is an invitational where sportsmanship is the primary focus. We do and have taken action in the past regarding the scores people get/give. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Yeah allowing you to take stuff from any source you'd like opens the door to abuse but it isn't permission for abuse. Who gets to decide what abuse is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 List committee and your opponent. You get feedback from committee and get a chance update accordingly. Not perfect, but more involved than many other events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 And do you not see any inherent bias probable to the person you just played being the one that rates your list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexcragg Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 No, it makes more sense than any one else. They just played the list and now have an informed opinion.You can not objectively measure subjective data. But as TOs you have to try. I think the changes this year sound good - I like the idea that people may have to consider if their list is to 'dicky' and may get lots of low votes. It's worth a shot anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Rate it before playing and most bias is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm not saying it's perfect but it is a better form of comp in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 No, it makes more sense than any one else. They just played the list and now have an informed opinion. Alternately, they have just played the list and are still emotionally entangled in the game and are in the worst possible position to be making a good judgement on it. You can not objectively measure subjective data. But as TOs you have to try. Do you? I don't need to rate my feelings on a scale for them to have merit or meaning. I think the entire exercise of "measure your opponenent's funness on a scale of 1-10" is an exercise that is inevitably going to cause ill will, and I've seen it happen before. I entirely support the goal of OFCC, i.e. inclusiveness for all parts of the hobby, but I question whether giving every person you play a say in things is a good way of going about this. Having list ratings before playing is an improvement, certainly, but I know there have been plenty of people who have balked at playing a list and then realized after the fact that it wasn't as unbeatable as it seemed at first glance, so it's hardly a perfect solution. We already have the LRC doing its thing- what, exactly, is introducing an additional layer of judgement accomplishing at this point? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Oh dear. Well this years Sportsmanship scoring setup is done so there's no going back now. There's not a lot of value in fearing what COULD happen. I think the question just has to be, given the rules as they are laid out here, are you willing to play anyways? If not, voting with wallets is your duty. If you can live with it (and its not changing now), then go with eyes wide open and play. At some point you just have to make a decision, now that THE decisions have already been made. But I am still wanting an answer to my earlier question. I think it was a fair question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 not to be too much of an ass (as it is kind of what I am known for ), but I think I have to say this. I really think that if you are concerned about the score you will get at OFCC, then you may not getting the purpose of the event. who cares about your score? why? does it matter? are you trying to win something? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisruptiveConduct Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I am trying to win hearts and minds! My top reasons for attending: -to see the best painted/converted armies I have ever seen -meet the coolest people who share my hobby -win five favorite opponent pins before Fed does All that usually keeps me too busy to worry about rankings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I really think that if you are concerned about the score you will get at OFCC, then you may not getting the purpose of the event. who cares about your score? why? does it matter? are you trying to win something? If the score doesn't matter, why have it at all? Why not do away with the scores entirely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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