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1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

You also have to recognize his level and style of play, his various experiences in different match ups etc

Nanavati?  Well I mean isn't he ranked number 1 (currently)?  So I mean sure.  Obviously!  That number doesn't lie.

I think he will do REALLY well.  Board control is overwhelming with that list as i can tell you, and you don't need MUCH in the way of elemenets to slow the enemy down just long enough for the enemy not to hold more...ever.  Killing more is iffy depending on who he fights because they CAN spread out and there ARE some pretty good hammer units that can respond to them.   

Someone can knock out ONE of the Lootaz squads in round 1 (he can only use the Gretchen shield to protect one of them), if they go first which would be helpful, and then could get the froggy Orks to Jump away from LD buffs and pound them after it gets its pound of flesh.  So it makes sense almost to go second against him if not for the merging lootaz issue.  Weird thing about orks, that.  Going second against them isnt totally the most terrible fate depending on the deployment zone.  Quarters deployment is pretty brutal.

I think its the list you MOST need to plan for and honestly, there are no excellent answers against it.  I suppose 3 Arco-Flagellant units would be one.  Hehehe.  They are suh good, even without the Stratagem.  But I digress.

My T'au Empire list is going to have its hands full against that.  Remember the Zulus.

 

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Well in this case, I wasnt going to ignore results.  My T'au have won at competitive events and GT's as well as casual play, whereas the same was true to a far lesser extent w Beta Codex Sisters.  My sisters were 6-4, and all of them but one were quite close games like ive mentioned (imp knight army did NOT enjoy itself against Sisters 🙂 ).

Anywho, I am boarding the plane in a few minutes.  Exciting.  

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LVO was a trial by fire for sure.  

Jason warned me not to win "by too much".  Honestly I hate how true that is and my pride gets in the way of good sense.  

Joshua Death knows this very well, and its part of his winning strategy to go nap of the earth.  He did again this LVO.  Me, not so much.  I went big or went home with 40, 38 and 30 point wins, but to go with them, 21,18 and 15 point losses.  So 3-3.  Not bad for a first LVO.

I also did a single elimination thing Sunday.  Got a 37 point win and then ran headlong into ynnari, played by the guy who was at top table at the Socal Open.  What can ya do.  No shame in that.

So 4-4 weekend all told.  Only got first turn once in 8 games.  Lol?

Best memory will probably be taking out a billion IG/mortars plus Castellan list.  

The worst memory in a separate game will be that my Ghostkeel had about 30 melta shots (including being charged) at a Castellan, at juice range, over the course of six turns  ( JUST the Ghostkeel alone) and I never killed the damn thing.  I really felt robbed in that game, I can tell ya.  Ghostkeel never died and...yeah.  absurd improbabilities in that game.  Broadsides, ghostkeel, supremacy Railguns, Darkstriders analyzer, and so on...  what a joke.  That'll sting for a bit.

Also had an opponent time out which has only happened to me one other time.  That was noteworthy.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

LVO was a trial by fire for sure.  

Jason warned me not to win "by too much".  Honestly I hate how true that is and my pride gets in the way of good sense.  

Joshua Death knows this very well, and its part of his winning strategy to go nap of the earth.  He did again this LVO.  Me, not so much.  I went big or went home with 40, 38 and 30 point wins, but to go with them, 21,18 and 15 point losses.  So 3-3.  Not bad for a first LVO.

I also did a single elimination thing Sunday.  Got a 37 point win and then ran headlong into ynnari, played by the guy who was at top table at the Socal Open.  What can ya do.  No shame in that.

So 4-4 weekend all told.  Only got first turn once in 8 games.  Lol?

Best memory will probably be taking out a billion IG/mortars plus Castellan list.  

The worst memory in a separate game will be that my Ghostkeel had about 30 melta shots (including being charged) at a Castellan, at juice range, over the course of six turns  ( JUST the Ghostkeel alone) and I never killed the damn thing.  I really felt robbed in that game, I can tell ya.  Ghostkeel never died and...yeah.  absurd improbabilities in that game.  Broadsides, ghostkeel, supremacy Railguns, Darkstriders analyzer, and so on...  what a joke.  That'll sting for a bit.

Also had an opponent time out which has only happened to me one other time.  That was noteworthy.

 

 

 

Sounds like you had fun ^_^ next year for me... Yes... Next year

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Well my final ITC standing is now 230 out of 10,000, looks like.  Exceeded my previous best (previous was top 3%).  Super sweet.  I'll take it!  I had 15 tournies when I did it before in 2016 and most of the top ones had about that many give or take as well.  So maybe I can go higher if I go to more events? A pretty satisfying end to the season.  

Onward and upward.

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25 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Well my final ITC standing is now 230 out of 10,000, looks like.  Exceeded my previous best (previous was top 3%).  Super sweet.  I'll take it!  I had 15 tournies when I did it before in 2016 and most of the top ones had about that many give or take as well.  So maybe I can go higher if I go to more events? A pretty satisfying end to the season.  

Onward and upward.

Yup. My goal is top 100 this year

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11 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

That would be pretty killer.

Yup. Got my storm of silence ticket but I definitely don't expect to win that. We have the Guardian Cup this week (which I am furiously working to be ready for), yea, working on it

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5 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Yup. Got my storm of silence ticket but I definitely don't expect to win that. We have the Guardian Cup this week (which I am furiously working to be ready for), yea, working on it

Git 'em.

I forgot about Guardian Cup.  Probably sold out by now.  Ive gone 2 or 3 times.  I never seem to do well at that event.  But then again, I've never brought a real effort.  I brought militarum Tempestus one year, I brought my fun time Tau a couple times, especially last time which was more of a narrative thing.

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48 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Git 'em.

I forgot about Guardian Cup.  Probably sold out by now.  Ive gone 2 or 3 times.  I never seem to do well at that event.  But then again, I've never brought a real effort.  I brought militarum Tempestus one year, I brought my fun time Tau a couple times, especially last time which was more of a narrative thing.

Got room for Tau ^_^

If you pull the lvo list you will likely do very well. I am playing orks so I will just be trying to make all 6 turns. 

 

Sorry in advance to my opponents 

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1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

Got room for Tau ^_^

If you pull the lvo list you will likely do very well. I am playing orks so I will just be trying to make all 6 turns. 

 

Sorry in advance to my opponents 

Dont apologize.  Orks got a LITTLE  exposed, but are still exceptional.  Ynnari are currently still able to beat em, as is the bloody castellan list of one thousand paper cuts+ sledgehammer.  I beat an ork at the LVO as well (and he timed out which obviously hurt).  GT's always mostly bring the hard core lists, so im sure you'll break a sweat at least.

I'll see if I can arrange things on short planning time.  Also depends if my back is feelin it.  I stayed in Vegas and am still there and have done a tooooon of exercize between the gt and going to and hither.

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6 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Dont apologize.  Orks got a LITTLE  exposed, but are still exceptional.  Ynnari are currently still able to beat em, as is the bloody castellan list of one thousand paper cuts+ sledgehammer.  I beat an ork at the LVO as well (and he timed out which obviously hurt).  GT's always mostly bring the hard core lists, so im sure you'll break a sweat at least.

I'll see if I can arrange things on short planning time.  Also depends if my back is feelin it.  I stayed in Vegas and am still there and have done a tooooon of exercize between the gt and going to and hither.

I don't know about hard core. Thanks to Steven Pampreen I am looking at how to cure my CP issues. 


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [36 PL, 8CP, 668pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 79pts]: Choppa, Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field

+ Troops +

Gretchin [2 PL, 60pts]: 20x Gretchin

Gretchin [2 PL, 60pts]: 20x Gretchin

Boyz [11 PL, 152pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 20x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]: 15x Loota

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [68 PL, 11CP, 1332pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

Warboss in Mega Armour (index) [7 PL, 120pts]: Power Klaw, Shoota

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 237pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Kombi-Rokkit
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 223pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Kombi-Rokkit
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 17x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Mad Dok Grotsnik [5 PL, 86pts]

Meganobz [6 PL, 105pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota

+ Fast Attack +

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta: Bigbomm (Index), Twin Big Shoota

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta: Bigbomm (Index), Twin Big Shoota

Stormboyz [3 PL, 45pts]: 5x Stormboy

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

++ Total: [104 PL, 19CP, 2000pts] ++

 

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11 minutes ago, fluger said:

Easier to make mistakes with hordes, I suspect Orks will be a gate-keeper type army.  Something all lists have to prepare for, but lack a certain something to be consistent champs.

Variety. They are also CP hungry so they can have issues later on. 

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2 hours ago, fluger said:

Easier to make mistakes with hordes, I suspect Orks will be a gate-keeper type army.  Something all lists have to prepare for, but lack a certain something to be consistent champs.

While I think that the orks have a good codex, I've not seen them do anything that requires a unique tactic for orks.

Grot shields is very similar to the Drone Saviour protocols, which in turn is similar to the Company Veterans (who also have a sacrifice ability) and there's probably others. Hordes aren't really new either. Aside from previous incarnations of orks, lots of other armies can make viable horde builds, which often function in a very similar capacity. Even that super shokk gun, while very impressive, isn't exactly unprecidented. 

Honestly, there's not a tremendous difference between the current orks and the tyranid armies. Both are low invulnerable save armies, with crazy leadership rules and the capacity to field huge hordes or elite infantry or just big things. I suppose the main difference is that orks have almost no psykers and tyranids don't have squad leaders. The difference used to include vehicle access, but since the change to vehicles with toughness, the two armies are rather similar. Range used to be more of a thing too, but bugs got a lot of viable ranged attacks this time around. 

Plus CSM has become a horde army due to GW push for cultist equivelents in every codex variant.

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40 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

While I think that the orks have a good codex, I've not seen them do anything that requires a unique tactic for orks.

Grot shields is very similar to the Drone Saviour protocols, which in turn is similar to the Company Veterans (who also have a sacrifice ability) and there's probably others. Hordes aren't really new either. Aside from previous incarnations of orks, lots of other armies can make viable horde builds, which often function in a very similar capacity. Even that super shokk gun, while very impressive, isn't exactly unprecidented. 

Honestly, there's not a tremendous difference between the current orks and the tyranid armies. Both are low invulnerable save armies, with crazy leadership rules and the capacity to field huge hordes or elite infantry or just big things. I suppose the main difference is that orks have almost no psykers and tyranids don't have squad leaders. The difference used to include vehicle access, but since the change to vehicles with toughness, the two armies are rather similar. Range used to be more of a thing too, but bugs got a lot of viable ranged attacks this time around. 

Plus CSM has become a horde army due to GW push for cultist equivelents in every codex variant.

... 

... 

... 

So last night I brought a unit back from near death, near my Wierdboy, jumped the unit so I could access the middle of the board and spread out to contest multiple objectives. 

Please show me an army that can do that other than orks? 

Grot shields are not similar to savior protocol as I spend a CP only Affects a single unit and only affects ranged attacks. It does a similar things sure but it's usability and versatility are vastly different. 

 

Differences between orks and tyranids? Huh, well let's take a stab at this. 

The first is a mono codex with no current allies, the second can take Genestealer Cult which gives access to Imperial Guard. 

Next, tyranids can launch Genestealers up to 52" in a single turn (given perfect roles but even then 47" is normal). 

Hormagaunts have a 6" pile in and 6" consolidation move. Ever seen 30 Hormagaunts wave across the board in 8th? I have watched it, really impressive. 

They have access to an amazing move blocking unit called a biovore where people purposefully miss so they can place a spore in front of units like. Knights or Big infantry blobs to restrict or outright block movement 

 

The two factions are nothing alike. Their only Similarity is they both can run horde. 

 

Cultists are expensive and while good their only saving grace is they are efficient. It's not about GW pushing anything as cultists have taken what, 3-4 nerf bat's so far. It's that players will seek out efficiency. 

 

For wide arcing statements like that, I recommend you back it with facts not personal opinion based off a few games with one faction or another. 

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1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

So last night I brought a unit back from near death, near my Wierdboy, jumped the unit so I could access the middle of the board and spread out to contest multiple objectives. 

Please show me an army that can do that other than orks? 

Grot shields are not similar to savior protocol as I spend a CP only Affects a single unit and only affects ranged attacks. It does a similar things sure but it's usability and versatility are vastly different. 

 

Differences between orks and tyranids? Huh, well let's take a stab at this. 

The first is a mono codex with no current allies, the second can take Genestealer Cult which gives access to Imperial Guard. 

Next, tyranids can launch Genestealers up to 52" in a single turn (given perfect roles but even then 47" is normal). 

Hormagaunts have a 6" pile in and 6" consolidation move. Ever seen 30 Hormagaunts wave across the board in 8th? I have watched it, really impressive. 

They have access to an amazing move blocking unit called a biovore where people purposefully miss so they can place a spore in front of units like. Knights or Big infantry blobs to restrict or outright block movement 

I think you could accomplish similar things with your orks as you could with tyranids. Tyranids having allies is a pretty new concept. They've been a mono-codex army for quite a while. I believe the Asta Militarum allies can't be taken if also field tyranids, but I could be mistaken there. Though as mentioned, taking ranged allies is less impressive this edition because bugs got more impressive ranged weapons this time around. 

Grot shields is mostly worse than Drone Saviour protocols, but we can disagree there. The ability to shift wounds from one target to another isn't really new. Your point was that orks were something you'd have to specifically plan for, and I think the same tactics you'd plan for against Drones would work against Grot Shields. And other armies do this too. It's not really a unique tactic.

For fast Melee, you could teleport your orks 9" away, then charge (and you get free re-rolls on your charge). And this is allowed turn 1. Sounds fast to me. 

Hormaguants would much rather have a faster move speed. Or the ability to charge after advancing (which they lost with the edition change). 

Orks used to use Trukks as "speed bumps" in the same respect that biovore spore mines can hinder movement. Not really sure why you'd be unable to do this now with many of your ork units, but seems like that must be the case if you are envious of spore mines...

 

Don't get me wrong, there are quirky differences between the two, but I can't think of anything orks can do that is unique to orks and requires a specific anti-ork tactic. Most anti-tyranid tactics should works against orks, though orks are slightly better at range and slightly worse at melee, though this greatly depends on your build because both can now field quite varied armies.

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23 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

So last night I brought a unit back from near death, near my Wierdboy, jumped the unit so I could access the middle of the board and spread out to contest multiple objectives. 

Please show me an army that can do that other than orks? 

Necrons, for one. And they could do it without psychic powers.

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7 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Necrons, for one. And they could do it without psychic powers.

They don't get full squads back are are too expensive. Any smart player knows to focus down one unit so it doesn't come back and thus preventing them from using the ability. 

9 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I think you could accomplish similar things with your orks as you could with tyranids. Tyranids having allies is a pretty new concept. They've been a mono-codex army for quite a while. I believe the Asta Militarum allies can't be taken if also field tyranids, but I could be mistaken there. Though as mentioned, taking ranged allies is less impressive this edition because bugs got more impressive ranged weapons this time around. 

 

False. Tyranids once again do separate things. You are trying to create a link where the only. Is mass bodies. 

Tyranids are more mobile. An Ork Boy or Grot only moves 5" and while we can Da Jump boys that requires openings left for us by our opponents which most won't do. 

Tyranids don't need that as they can race up the board and get in charge range easily. 

Tyranids also have a negative to hit unit while orks are just an invul and a meh FNP. 

 

Your hangup on the two factions will lead you to making tactical assumptions that will hurt you in the end. 

 

BTW, the reason I am so set on this, is because it's like saying Tau and Imperial Guard are similar when they are most definitely not. 

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9 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

They don't get full squads back are are too expensive. Any smart player knows to focus down one unit so it doesn't come back and thus preventing them from using the ability. 

False. Tyranids once again do separate things. You are trying to create a link where the only. Is mass bodies. 

Tyranids are more mobile. An Ork Boy or Grot only moves 5" and while we can Da Jump boys that requires openings left for us by our opponents which most won't do. 

Tyranids don't need that as they can race up the board and get in charge range easily. 

Tyranids also have a negative to hit unit while orks are just an invul and a meh FNP. 

Lol. Orks can race up the board if they want, they certainly have the speed. I think your Orks lack speed because you play them very consevatively (which works very well for you). Orks also have assault weapons on just about everything and very minimal penalties for advancing, so suggesting they lack speed and move only 5" is downright misleading.

Tyranid hit penalty is mounted on a non-character unit, so it's very meh compared to your character mounted FNP and KFF. Your arguments sound like a "Grass is greener on the other side" approach. I think if you tried tyranids in this edition, you'd see my point. The two armies are quite similar this time around (nothing wrong with that).

As for necrons, your point is moot. The same tactics used to counter your orks getting full units back (which, like the necrons, don't come back if reduced to nothing) and the same counter tactics if they teleport them. Even if the necrons cost more and reclaim models at a lower rate, it doesn't change the counter tactics. 

And even psychic powers or stratagems that teleport units isn't unique to the Ork codex. Grey Knights have had that since the start of the edition. Grey Knights have their own problems, but in terms of preparing for the tactic, we're not adjusting for orkish teleportation.

Anyway, I do think orks have a good codex and a strong army, but in terms of new things to prepare for, I don't really think orks feature anything new.

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8 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

I don't know about hard core. Thanks to Steven Pampreen I am looking at how to cure my CP issues. 

 

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++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [36 PL, 8CP, 668pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 79pts]: Choppa, Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field

+ Troops +

Gretchin [2 PL, 60pts]: 20x Gretchin

Gretchin [2 PL, 60pts]: 20x Gretchin

Boyz [11 PL, 152pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 20x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]: 15x Loota

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [68 PL, 11CP, 1332pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

Warboss in Mega Armour (index) [7 PL, 120pts]: Power Klaw, Shoota

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 237pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Kombi-Rokkit
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 223pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Kombi-Rokkit
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 17x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Mad Dok Grotsnik [5 PL, 86pts]

Meganobz [6 PL, 105pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota

+ Fast Attack +

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta: Bigbomm (Index), Twin Big Shoota

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta: Bigbomm (Index), Twin Big Shoota

Stormboyz [3 PL, 45pts]: 5x Stormboy

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz [2 PL, 31pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun

++ Total: [104 PL, 19CP, 2000pts] ++

 

 

Aaaaaqalmost the same as what I fought at lvo.  My opponent had more lootaz, and more gretchen instead of meganobz.  Otherwise the same.

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