Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
paxmiles

Charging a Deathstorm Drop Pod

Recommended Posts

If I have multiple friendly units within 12" of an enemy Deathstorm Drop Pod, and one of my unit charges the pod, what happens in overwatch?

Deathstorm Pod's weapons all have this rule where they shoot at everything in range. Makes perfect sense in the shooting phase, unclear what happens in overwatch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

If I have multiple friendly units within 12" of an enemy Deathstorm Drop Pod, and one of my unit charges the pod, what happens in overwatch?

Deathstorm Pod's weapons all have this rule where they shoot at everything in range. Makes perfect sense in the shooting phase, unclear what happens in overwatch. 

Did you check the faq or does it say "in the shoot phase" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Did you check the faq or does it say "in the shoot phase" 

Faq says nothing, but the FW faqs are all rather sparse and tend to create more questions when they answer existing questions. 

No mention of shooting phase at all. Ability is found in the weapon profile, not the unit. Exact phrasing is

Quote

When fired, this weapon makes one full Shooting attack against each enemy unit within range, except CHARACTERS. A unit consisting entirely of CHARACTERS may only be attacked if it is the closest enemy unit to the Deathstorm Drop Pod when the attack is declared. 

Nothing mentioned regarding overwatch and, if anything, implies that it would do this during overwatch. Good news is that CHARACTER units should be able to charge without fear of overwatch, provided they aren't the closest unit, but otherwise, as written, seems like it would shoot at everything while overwatching...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn you. Now I wanna make an army just bursting with these puppies.

Deathstorm launchers everywhere, then take it to a no-holds-barred smackdown like LVO.

Imagine being that opponent.

Looking at a list full of one, sub-par unit. Thinking to yourself, "I gotta be missing something. He can't have brought 12 Deathstorm drop pods just for the lulz...he must be some kind of mad genius". Then watching the look on their face on turn 3ish when they finally realize, "Nope, not genius, just jackass."

That look on their face has GOTTA be worth the price of going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, PourSpelur said:

Damn you. Now I wanna make an army just bursting with these puppies.

Deathstorm launchers everywhere, then take it to a no-holds-barred smackdown like LVO.

Imagine being that opponent.

Looking at a list full of one, sub-par unit. Thinking to yourself, "I gotta be missing something. He can't have brought 12 Deathstorm drop pods just for the lulz...he must be some kind of mad genius". Then watching the look on their face on turn 3ish when they finally realize, "Nope, not genius, just jackass."

That look on their face has GOTTA be worth the price of going.

3x max at 2k. It's a Fast slot, they're 160pts each. It has only 8 wounds on a T6 immobile vehicle and has only a 3+ save (which for cost, is an "only").

Plus they have no special rule that grants turn 1 deep strike. (though as worded, drop pods can start on the table in your deployment zone...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, WestRider said:

Rule of Three. They're not Dedicated Transports like regular Drop Pods.

There is a possible loophole here. Since they can be taken for multiple armies, you could theoretically have a trio of Deathwatch Deathstorm Drop Pods, a trio of Space Wolf Deathstorm Drop Pods, and a trio of Dark Angel Deathstorm Drop Pods. GW did clarify that the rule of three doesn't apply to the different Hereticus Astartes Daemon Princes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

People like to break systems and while GW likes to make money they want more of their products to sell. Not just 15 flyrants

Dunno. If it was just about GW sales, I think they'd be fine with everyone buying the same kit. That is kinda the appeal of the Knight army, after all.

Some people like to win. Winning is about "proving" superiority through a test of some sort. The game functions as this test. While the reality is that the game is more winnable for some players/armies than it is for others, that really doesn't matter so long as the game appears equal to those that seek it to be so. The appearance of equality is called balance.

From the sales standpoint, the problems arise when players feel that the appearance of equality is not present. If the game doesn't appear equal, it doesn't make a good test, and therefore can't be used to "prove" superiority. And that reduces sales.

And for clarity, I put "proving" in quotes because winning really doesn't prove anything. Winning is, at best, anecdotal evidence of superiority, and really just serves as a Ego stroker for those that can only validate their own success by the failure of others. But if it makes you happy, I guess don't really see anything wrong it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Dunno. If it was just about GW sales, I think they'd be fine with everyone buying the same kit. That is kinda the appeal of the Knight army, after all.

Some people like to win. Winning is about "proving" superiority through a test of some sort. The game functions as this test. While the reality is that the game is more winnable for some players/armies than it is for others, that really doesn't matter so long as the game appears equal to those that seek it to be so. The appearance of equality is called balance.

From the sales standpoint, the problems arise when players feel that the appearance of equality is not present. If the game doesn't appear equal, it doesn't make a good test, and therefore can't be used to "prove" superiority. And that reduces sales.

And for clarity, I put "proving" in quotes because winning really doesn't prove anything. Winning is, at best, anecdotal evidence of superiority, and really just serves as a Ego stroker for those that can only validate their own success by the failure of others. But if it makes you happy, I guess don't really see anything wrong it.

Knights have a variety. They don't want stale meta's and they want to see diversity. More diversity means more show of interest for newer players, more show of interest means more diverse sales and the need of GW to sell products that are diverse means they have more area for stock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Knights have a variety. They don't want stale meta's and they want to see diversity. More diversity means more show of interest for newer players, more show of interest means more diverse sales and the need of GW to sell products that are diverse means they have more area for stock

They do now, but the knights didn't always. And while I agree that more diversity creates more players, I believe that GW's ideal would be a single kit that appealed to everyone. But that's just capitalism, not something unique to GW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sales are a cycle and having diversity means GW gets more overall because more people will be ok with doing tournaments.

This is heightened because GW has promised more tournament balance and game game balance and they have delivered pretty well. 

Top 16 of the biggest tournament in the world had 10 out of 16 different factions. Soup for much but still differ main factions 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

They do now, but the knights didn't always. And while I agree that more diversity creates more players, I believe that GW's ideal would be a single kit that appealed to everyone. But that's just capitalism, not something unique to GW.

The past is the past ruled by someone who no longer has any skin in the game. 

 

As for the knight model. It's to find interest in that. It takes tens of thousands of dollars per mold so they won't want to just dive in making products like they did in their past. 

 

It's like playing Risk, expand too fast and you think yourself out. Take your time, build up and put pressure out and you maintain a strong base

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ish said:

I just want to see White Scars and Ravenwing armies with lots of bike squads, Imperial Guard armies with loads of Leman Russ squadrons, and other thematic armies that the ‘Rule of Three’ squishes flat.

It was a chainsaw instead of a scalpel.

The GW way. There is flexibility and I figure GW will work things out but for now it's fine. One can always play narrative games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

The past is the past ruled by someone who no longer has any skin in the game.

That particular phrase doesn't work well with 40k.

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/have-skin-in-the-game

The editions change, but the models carry over and the models are the investment.

8 minutes ago, Ish said:

I just want to see White Scars and Ravenwing armies with lots of bike squads, Imperial Guard armies with loads of Leman Russ squadrons, and other thematic armies that the ‘Rule of Three’ squishes flat.

It was a chainsaw instead of a scalpel.

I've heard this complaint, but when you really look at the points, these mention example armies weren't really denied. At 2k, you can still take almost your entire army in leman russes, bikes, or jump packs. It typically suffers for command points and diversity, but it's legal.

I'm looking at my Dark Angels. I can easily make the entire army Deathwing Terminators or Ravenwing bikes/land speeders. Ravenwing even got a generic land speeder character this time around.

And thematically, even with a fluff theme of jump packs or bikes or leman russes, they still would take other units for viability reasons. The Imperium doesn't forgo viability for theme, that's a player/hobbiest thing...

Here, just looking at battlescribe for white scars:


++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [75 PL, 1056pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: White Scars

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [6 PL, 90pts]: Twin boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [9 PL, 111pts]
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun

Attack Bike Squad [9 PL, 111pts]
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun

Attack Bike Squad [9 PL, 111pts]
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [14 PL, 211pts]
. Attack Bike: Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun
. 7x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 7x Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [14 PL, 211pts]
. Attack Bike: Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun
. 7x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 7x Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [14 PL, 211pts]
. Attack Bike: Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun
. 7x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 7x Twin boltgun

++ Total: [75 PL, 1056pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I'm at just over 1k and I've not taken any additional equipment. And for clarity in fluff, white Scars feature an unusually high number of bikes when compared with other SM chapters, but they are not a pure bike army.

image.png.3df90a157a72871eb538922043ecb44e.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going solely by the fluff, a Battle Company of White Scars Space Marines will commonly be fielded with all six of its Tactical Squads mounted on Bikes with the extra Marines formed into ad hoc Attack Bike Squads, it’s two Assault Squads deploying via Thunderhawk with Jump Packs or in Rhinos, and it’s two Devastator Squads in Rhinos or Razorbacks.

The Rule of Three means this cannot be fielded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ish said:

Going solely by the fluff, a Battle Company of White Scars Space Marines will commonly be fielded with all six of its Tactical Squads mounted on Bikes with the extra Marines formed into ad hoc Attack Bike Squads, it’s two Assault Squads deploying via Thunderhawk with Jump Packs or in Rhinos, and it’s two Devastator Squads in Rhinos or Razorbacks.

The Rule of Three means this cannot be fielded.

So "rule of three" is a term that players use. It references the number of detachments and duplicate unit entries allowed in a given point level. The rule of 3 becomes the rule of 4 in games of 3k, the rule 5 at 4k and so forth.

A battle company is 100 marines (which doesn't include command characters, support staff, or vehicles). Are you looking to field a full company at 2k? Or is your plan actually 60 marines mounted on bikes, 20 assault marines, 20 devastators, multiple light transports, and a thunderhawk?

Your list sounds like a desperate squeeze at 2k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [106 PL, 1598pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: White Scars

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [6 PL, 90pts]: Twin boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [11 PL, 150pts]: Jump Pack
. 9x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol/Chainsword

Assault Squad [11 PL, 150pts]: Jump Pack
. 9x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol/Chainsword

Bike Squad [14 PL, 211pts]
. Attack Bike: Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun
. 7x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 7x Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [14 PL, 211pts]
. Attack Bike: Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun
. 7x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 7x Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [14 PL, 211pts]
. Attack Bike: Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun
. 7x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 7x Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [14 PL, 211pts]
. Attack Bike: Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun
. 7x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 7x Twin boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [11 PL, 182pts]: 9x Space Marine, Space Marine Sergeant, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon

Devastator Squad [11 PL, 182pts]: 9x Space Marine, Space Marine Sergeant, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon, Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [42 PL, 1448pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Thunderhawk Assault Gunship [42 PL, 1448pts]: 2x Lascannon, Thunderhawk cluster bombs, Thunderhawk heavy cannon, 4x Twin heavy bolter

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [38 PL, 499pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: White Scars

+ HQ +

Librarian on Bike [8 PL, 129pts]: Force stave, Twin boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [9 PL, 111pts]
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun

Attack Bike Squad [9 PL, 111pts]
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun

Attack Bike Squad [9 PL, 111pts]
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun

Attack Bike Squad [3 PL, 37pts]
. Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun

++ Total: [186 PL, 3545pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I'm at 3,545pts. I have my 20 assault marines with jump packs, my 20 devastators (without any heavy weapons), my 60 marines on bikes (remember that each attack bike holds 2x marines), 2 command models on bikes, and my thunderhawk.

This is a legal battleforged list for 40k. This list meets requirements for the rule of 4, though points required actually means I have the rule of 5 (or more once I add weaponry options).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×