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Militarum Tempestus + Cadians


Lord Hanaur

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I have had a Militarum Tempestus force since they got their own "Codex" in 7E.  I have always thought extremely highly of the Kasrkin models and had for a very long time hoped they would be playable, but they were just bad before that Codex.

With the advent of 8E and the new way of doing things, they shined again until the beta rule stopped their turn one deep strikes ( I also have a Cadian Detachment for Artillery support).  I was able to rack up a large number of wins with them.  I was just peeling off to play some games of Dark Eldar when that Beta rule hit, so I had not really played them since that rule (conincidental timing, not any attempt to actually avoid the army) although my friends assured me it was GREAt timing since according to them the Militarum Tempestus were just "dead now".

I rarely care for hyperbole of course, but since i wasn't going to play them for a while i didn't argue much.

Which brings me to my point:  Last night I played a guy and brought them on a lark.  He had played my Sisters and my Ta'u Empire and so I thought I'd throw another one at him, just to test the theory and at the end of 3.5 rounds, his Mortarian led Nurgle had just a PlagueCrawler left on the board.  I had lost some Rough Riders but no other units perished.

My questions are: 

1.  Is anyone out there playing Militarum Tempestus  that I can Knoodle with on army ideas or just to BS about it.

2.  How has the Deep Striking limitation affected your Militarum Tempestus force?  Is it the absolute death knell of the army in competitive play or is it hyperbole as i suspected it to be?

3.  Castellan + IG opposition:  Should i just deploy everything turn one?

4.  Shining Spear Ynnari:  ideas on how to counter that?  Is my sheer numbers enough of a defense sicne they really can only kill a couple things a round?  Stratagies that might be great against them?

5.  Orks:  My army has a massive volume of low STR shooting but no Psyker defense and so i am also interested in how you might counter the Lootaspam and Jumping Bean attacks.  Are my Rough Riders decent enough shielding?  Should i make him go first?  Or should i press the advantage of my volume of shooting?  Deploy on the field or DS around his crazy pants jumps?  


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 142pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 142pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 92pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 92pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun

 

Taurox Prime [6 PL, 114pts]: Storm Bolter, Taurox Battle Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

Primaris Psyker [3 PL, 46Pts]: Force Stave

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 86pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

Company Commander [2 PL, 34pts]: Laspistol, Power sword

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Laspistol, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 43pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Rough Riders [5 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Rough Rider: 5x Hunting Lance
. Rough Rider Sergeant: Chainsword, Hunting Lance, Laspistol

Rough Riders [5 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Rough Rider: 5x Hunting Lance
. Rough Rider Sergeant: Chainsword, Hunting Lance, Laspistol

Basilisks [7 PL, 110pts]
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Manticore [8 PL, 141pts]: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Storm Bolter

++ Total: [95 PL, 1998pts] ++

 

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1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Just a question from a newbie, if you have 6 troops and 3 HQs in the first battalion, why not split it and make 2 battalions with an additional HQ choice?

 

I love the Scion models and someday would like to build a Scion army similar to yours.

Good idea.  First time I've really taken them out for a spin in a long time and it was pretty much the version I played before But if I could afford an extra likePsyker or something that would give me more CP

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Oh wait...  That won't work.  I see why I did it.  You can only have 3 of the same datasheet and no other HQ is Militarum Tempestus....  I dont have my codex with me so Im not sure if a Psyker would be okay.  Some armies have that provision that "you can take X,Y and Z (specifically) and not lose your regiment bonus even though X,Y, and Z do not themselves benefit".  I'd have to look into it unless someone here can tell me.

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3 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Someone pointed me to Battlescribe to build lists. So far it has been a massive help to me getting back into the game.

Battlescribe is great. Spread the word.

I sometimes think GW doesn't fully realize how much of their edition's success relies on a functional army building program. One of the few GW essential products that is 3rd party still.

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1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Someone pointed me to Battlescribe to build lists. So far it has been a massive help to me getting back into the game.

Be careful.  Battlescribe makes you lazy.  use it to form your list but THEN write out all your units nad points to make sure its correct and that you didn't make any errors on Battlescribe.  Cut n paste errors or delete and duplicate errors...  I made a mistake using battlescribe and because Battlescribe is...not helpfully formatted all the time to catch an error when you're in the list building piece of it...  I ended up 28 points over on my list.  This was an error i could have avoided if I had done the math on my own on a piece of paper FIRST and used the piece of paper instead of Battlescribe to upload my list.  But because i was just sort of transcribing  the points and PL to paper, and had deleted and replaced a unit but forgotten to put the 15 point upgrade missiles on em...  Error.  it was rather humiliating to have to apologize for it.  If I had realized it it was a super easy fix.  Just didn't.

So trust you, your pen and your calculator.  But Battlescribe at least helps you kind of get to the end product BEFORE you have to do that.

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1 hour ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Be careful.  Battlescribe makes you lazy.  use it to form your list but THEN write out all your units nad points to make sure its correct and that you didn't make any errors on Battlescribe.  Cut n paste errors or delete and duplicate errors...  I made a mistake using battlescribe and because Battlescribe is...not helpfully formatted all the time to catch an error when you're in the list building piece of it...  I ended up 28 points over on my list.  This was an error i could have avoided if I had done the math on my own on a piece of paper FIRST and used the piece of paper instead of Battlescribe to upload my list.  But because i was just sort of transcribing  the points and PL to paper, and had deleted and replaced a unit but forgotten to put the 15 point upgrade missiles on em...  Error.  it was rather humiliating to have to apologize for it.  If I had realized it it was a super easy fix.  Just didn't.

So trust you, your pen and your calculator.  But Battlescribe at least helps you kind of get to the end product BEFORE you have to do that.

If only, as Pax said, GW would actually pull their head out and offer a real army builder program. If they're going to keep tweaking point costs every damn year with the Chapter Approved books, it's almost impossible to keep up, and I shouldn't have to consult a small library just to build a list. Granted, I really dig that they're adjusting things based on need and the shifting meta, but I do miss the days when all I needed was the codex to write up a list. Honestly, even if I had to pay a nominal fee for my army, like Privateer Press does with WarmaHordes, charge me $5 per army on an official builder. Fine, I'll pay that. But having to cross-reference three or four books while I build a simple list is such a massive pain in the ass that yeah, it's pretty tempting to just rely on Battlescribe.

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55 minutes ago, necrontyr said:

Check out the Tempestus Drop Force in the first Vigilus book. Stormtroopers get some cool tricks. Add a Vendetta and or Vulture for Air Support and they are pretty well rounded and fun to play. My Stormtrooper army is 2 HQ, 1 Command Squad, 6 10 man squads, 6 airplanes, and support characters. It's a blast!

Six planes?  wow.  I own one of them.  I do own 4 Taurox Primes but i hear they didn't make a Formation for the Taurox prime like they used to.  they just took the old rules for that formation and gpasted it onto Valkyries.  Too bad, really.

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11 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

If only, as Pax said, GW would actually pull their head out and offer a real army builder program. If they're going to keep tweaking point costs every damn year with the Chapter Approved books, it's almost impossible to keep up, and I shouldn't have to consult a small library just to build a list. Granted, I really dig that they're adjusting things based on need and the shifting meta, but I do miss the days when all I needed was the codex to write up a list. Honestly, even if I had to pay a nominal fee for my army, like Privateer Press does with WarmaHordes, charge me $5 per army on an official builder. Fine, I'll pay that. But having to cross-reference three or four books while I build a simple list is such a massive pain in the ass that yeah, it's pretty tempting to just rely on Battlescribe.

Just be careful.  I got burned and it was recent and humiliating so for what it's worth,  just double confirm and double check it all.

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15 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

If only, as Pax said, GW would actually pull their head out and offer a real army builder program. If they're going to keep tweaking point costs every damn year with the Chapter Approved books, it's almost impossible to keep up, and I shouldn't have to consult a small library just to build a list. Granted, I really dig that they're adjusting things based on need and the shifting meta, but I do miss the days when all I needed was the codex to write up a list. Honestly, even if I had to pay a nominal fee for my army, like Privateer Press does with WarmaHordes, charge me $5 per army on an official builder. Fine, I'll pay that. But having to cross-reference three or four books while I build a simple list is such a massive pain in the ass that yeah, it's pretty tempting to just rely on Battlescribe.

What really bugs me is that there was someone who had put together a great one towards the start of 8th, but rather than working with him like they've done with a number of other people, they just told him to take it down. A proper GW Army Builder program would be such a huge help for 8th.

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2 hours ago, WestRider said:

What really bugs me is that there was someone who had put together a great one towards the start of 8th, but rather than working with him like they've done with a number of other people, they just told him to take it down. A proper GW Army Builder program would be such a huge help for 8th.

8th isnt struggling.  Writing a list fom your codex really isnt work.  We've become too spoiled.

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1 hour ago, Lord Hanaur said:

8th isnt struggling.  Writing a list fom your codex really isnt work.  We've become too spoiled.

To write my Deathwatch lists I think all I need is the Deathwatch codex, index 1, chapter approved 17, chapter approved 18, the numerous FAQs and errats online thank goodness and all my other factions codexes or indexes. 

As a newbie this initial buy in is overshadowed by the free app Battlescribe. Someday I'll be cool and own them all about the time 9th comes around...

Are you going to be at the clubhouse soon? I would like to play against your Temptesus force! I'm having fun painting my Guard screens so maybe after that I'll invest. 

 

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3 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

8th isnt struggling.  Writing a list fom your codex really isnt work.  We've become too spoiled.

I meant that it would be helpful to me for 8th. Just because something is easy for you doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. It takes me forever to write lists these days because of how spread out the necessary information is.

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1 hour ago, WestRider said:

I meant that it would be helpful to me for 8th. Just because something is easy for you doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. It takes me forever to write lists these days because of how spread out the necessary information is.

I...guess?  I dislike the spread out nature, designed to make you buy stuff.  But disliking it doesnt make it an epic struggle.  

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2 hours ago, Brandon said:

To write my Deathwatch lists I think all I need is the Deathwatch codex, index 1, chapter approved 17, chapter approved 18, the numerous FAQs and errats online thank goodness and all my other factions codexes or indexes. 

As a newbie this initial buy in is overshadowed by the free app Battlescribe. Someday I'll be cool and own them all about the time 9th comes around...

Are you going to be at the clubhouse soon? I would like to play against your Temptesus force! I'm having fun painting my Guard screens so maybe after that I'll invest. 

 

Sadly, I am in Olympia.  But I am sure I will make another Portland event.  I also sometimes visit infrequently for Flames of War.  So you never know.  I hear tell OFCC is happening again this year so if I hop on a team, we could always challenge each others teams.

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2 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I...guess?  I dislike the spread out nature, designed to make you buy stuff.  But disliking it doesnt make it an epic struggle.  

I'm talking within a given Codex. Having the equipment lists, Unit sheets, and Points values in three completely different places. Way too much flipping back and forth, I lose track of stuff all the time.

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Just to reiterate, my OP questions were:

1.  Is anyone out there playing Militarum Tempestus  that I can Knoodle with on army ideas or just to BS about it.

2.  How has the Deep Striking limitation affected your Militarum Tempestus force?  Is it the absolute death knell of the army in competitive play or is it hyperbole as i suspected it to be?

3.  Castellan + IG opposition:  Should i just deploy everything turn one?

4.  Shining Spear Ynnari:  ideas on how to counter that?  Is my sheer numbers enough of a defense sicne they really can only kill a couple things a round?  Stratagies that might be great against them?

5.  Orks:  My army has a massive volume of low STR shooting but no Psyker defense and so i am also interested in how you might counter the Lootaspam and Jumping Bean attacks.  Are my Rough Riders decent enough shielding?  Should i make him go first?  Or should i press the advantage of my volume of shooting?  Deploy on the field or DS around his crazy pants jumps?  

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On 4/11/2019 at 2:06 PM, necrontyr said:

1. Yo, been running one for a bit

2. It made me rely on Valkyrie drops more

3. Not sure about this one

4. Shoot them a lot from close?

5. There's a couple of traits and relics for MT that can deny psykers. Loota spams just need to meet Vultures. Fly around grot screens and punisher cannon them. 

Yeah, Vultures cant happen for me.  But they are plenty broken enough to want to do it.  Ive faced three in Colin Shermans GSC list.  

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On 4/9/2019 at 12:08 PM, Lord Hanaur said:

2.  How has the Deep Striking limitation affected your Militarum Tempestus force?  Is it the absolute death knell of the army in competitive play or is it hyperbole as i suspected it to be?

I don't have your army, but I've got armies that would traditionally deep strike (like my DA terminators, or just drop pods). The turn 2+ limitation isn't too bad, as previous editions were also turn 2+. The main thing is that 8e doesn't allow null deployment, so you have to include a ground force with your deep strikers, which is thematically annoying. 

Buildings might be a good route for pure Militarum Tempestus deep strikers. Put a few bastions with embarked scion squads on the table, then deep strike the rest. Those buildings are difficult to remove, that bastion being T9 with 3+ armor and 20 wounds for under 200pts. The building fire output is hamstringed by the static BS5+ of buildings in this edition, so don't bother with weapon upgrades (since they pay for weapons as if they had better BS), but embarked units can fire out normally so they aren't without shooting. Bastions are also amazing Line of Sight blockers (great for indirect firing tanks, or to conceal light transports turn 1).

 

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