Random Thought Thread

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Ish said:

The dude is running around with the screen name "GodTrump2020." I think it's safe to assume he was looking to troll some Anti-Trump folks. But, yes, the fact that some folks are so emotionally fragile that any mention of the president is enough to upset them is a problem. Trolls picking on them is a problem, the fact that they're so easy to pick on is a problem too.

It's the PS4, and they don't let you change it after you make one. Might not even be his own account, but that of a spouse, child, or visitor. I'm stuck with a rather unpleasant user name, as well....

Made friends with a "mw3ballscrusher" the other day. He said it made more sense when he made it at age 13. Perfectly nice guy. He said he was a marine playing from a military base in Okinawa, Japan. Neat conversation.

As for the other guy's name, if you are right, isn't it equally possible that he's just looking to make friends with like-minded people? Rather than looking to offend people who have different interests. By endorsing a person, it doesn't automatically mean you hate all others.

Then, of course, he could have picked the name in order to cozy up to Trump supporters and then stab them in the back. I knew a family once what picked their political party based on which they liked the least, so they could screw them in the primaries...

And it could be entirely random.

[Ish]

I refer you back to John Gabriel's G.I.F.T., which tailors my expectations to assume anyone anonymous on the internet is being a troll.

[WestRider]

6 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Anyway. I thought they were making a reference to a sci-fi film. I keep forgetting that 2020 is only few years from now. I don't keep track of time very well. I keep thinking it's 19-something. When I was a kid, it seemed pretty clear that all modern dates included a 19, and all future set dates included a 20. "2001: A space Oddessy" is set in future, after all. Logically, anything with a 20XX date, should reference a ficticious future.

I had to make an appointment with a doctor a little while ago, for June 2020. It felt so unreal. Interestingly, the years in the first two decades of the 21st century didn't really hit me like this. The 2020s are where it really starts feeling weird.

[Ish]

4 minutes ago, WestRider said:

The 2020s are where it really starts feeling weird.

I think its because we're going to finally have a universally agreed upon name for the decade: "The Twenties." 

"The Aughts," "The Aughties," and "the New Teens" never really caught on since they were so awkward to say. But  "The Twenties" is probably going to stick around... and for people like us who grew up with phrases like "Welcome to the Nineties, pal." being the sarcastic way to tell someone to get with the times just sounds weird. I mean, the Twenties? That's when my great-grandfather was a kid. How the hell can I be alive in the Twenties!?

[WestRider]

I think for me it actually has more to do with the fact that the 2020s were when the first stuff I really remember from the Shadowrun backstory started happening. Possibly also some resonance from the BattleTech Technical Readout 2750 😉

[Duckman]

4 hours ago, paxmiles said:

But that seems more like an issue with them, rather than the person mentioning the subject. To be so intolerant of *any specific thing* that mere mention is regarded as a hateful slight against them - that seems like a personal problem, not something to blame others for.

Isn't trolling something you'd have to intentionally do? Like the difference between lying and being wrong.

As I said earlier when I gave the definition, Trolling is making a conscious decision to get people triggered.  It has nothing to do with being hateful or insulting.  The name you cited seems to me a calculated choice to push buttons just like saying OregonDucksFootballAreAllRapists.  Offering unsolicited political opinions in this day and age in a public venue unrelated to politics is *usually* trolling.  It might be possible that this was not the intent but the first thing I would expect in-game in that case was an honest attempt to discuss politics.  Without that I kinda gotta go with intentional and trying to trigger people.

That said, I don't really give people the benefit of the doubt anymore.  I've seen too many people online whose only motivation is to waste peoples' time by getting them triggered by making outrageous comments or even just claiming a position in the hopes that someone will be distracted into countering that position, often where the person making the claim has no honest interest in open dialog and in some cases could really care less about the claim in the first place.

 

In other words, the whole basis of trolling is to take advantage of the character flaw you are citing.  The thing that makes it trolling is the lack of interest in discussion about the topic and instead trying to cause the other person to be distracted or to waste their time or just because the initial perpetrator is attention-seeking.

[Ish]

27 minutes ago, WestRider said:

I think for me it actually has more to do with the fact that the 2020s were when the first stuff I really remember from the Shadowrun backstory started happening.

I always think of Shiawase Corporation v. Nuclear Regulatory Commission ___ U.S. __ (2001) as the real point of divergence between the Shadowrun timeline and our own. There were a few important events in the timeline prior to that court case (notably the Shiawase Corporation's construction of the plant and the formation of the eco-terrorist group that attacked it) that led up to the court case, but it was the "Shiawase Decision" that established corporate extraterritoriality and made Shiawase Corporation the first Megacorporation. The elven hackers and dragons in the boardroom are all well and good, but for me, it's just not Shadowrun without the megacorps.

[Guest]

 

29 minutes ago, Duckman said:

As I said earlier when I gave the definition, Trolling is making a conscious decision to get people triggered.  It has nothing to do with being hateful or insulting.  The name you cited seems to me a calculated choice to push buttons just like saying OregonDucksFootballAreAllRapists.  Offering unsolicited political opinions in this day and age in a public venue unrelated to politics is *usually* trolling.  It might be possible that this was not the intent but the first thing I would expect in-game in that case was an honest attempt to discuss politics.  Without that I kinda gotta go with intentional and trying to trigger people.

That said, I don't really give people the benefit of the doubt anymore.  I've seen too many people online whose only motivation is to waste peoples' time by getting them triggered by making outrageous comments or even just claiming a position in the hopes that someone will be distracted into countering that position, often where the person making the claim has no honest interest in open dialog and in some cases could really care less about the claim in the first place.

 

In other words, the whole basis of trolling is to take advantage of the character flaw you are citing.  The thing that makes it trolling is the lack of interest in discussion about the topic and instead trying to cause the other person to be distracted or to waste their time or just because the initial perpetrator is attention-seeking.

So if you don't give people the benefit of the doubt and just assume that any potentially political comments are slights against you via trolling, then against the innocent ones, are you the troll? Just seems like the inheirent flaw with this approach is that when you aren't actually the victim of trolling, you are the troll, and so the situation maintains itself, never ending.

For the record, no trolling was intended. By your definition, it wasn't trolling. But saying it like that doesn't really sound right. Do I really have it right? 

PS, I have political discussions on the MAX, not just politics, but they come up from time to time. I tend to ramble, so they don't always go anywhere, but sometimes we get some really interesting conversations going. Sometimes I just listen, other times I take lead. It's fun, talking with real people in person, in a public place. Should try it. It's amazing all the perspectives that are out there. 

[WestRider]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

I always think of Shiawase Corporation v. Nuclear Regulatory Commission ___ U.S. __ (2001) as the real point of divergence between the Shadowrun timeline and our own. There were a few important events in the timeline prior to that court case (notably the Shiawase Corporation's construction of the plant and the formation of the eco-terrorist group that attacked it) that led up to the court case, but it was the "Shiawase Decision" that established corporate extraterritoriality and made Shiawase Corporation the first Megacorporation. The elven hackers and dragons in the boardroom are all well and good, but for me, it's just not Shadowrun without the megacorps.

It's not that I think of 2020 as the divergence point. It's just that, being born in Seattle, it was the aftermath of the Ghost Dance War and the establishment of the Seattle Metroplex in the years just before that that really grabbed me and stuck in my mind. There was plenty of important stuff before that, but that's the major event that I actually remember the date of. At least approximately.

[InfestedKerrigan]

😫

[Duckman]

11 hours ago, paxmiles said:

 

So if you don't give people the benefit of the doubt and just assume that any potentially political comments are slights against you via trolling, then against the innocent ones, are you the troll? Just seems like the inheirent flaw with this approach is that when you aren't actually the victim of trolling, you are the troll, and so the situation maintains itself, never ending.

For the record, no trolling was intended. By your definition, it wasn't trolling. But saying it like that doesn't really sound right. Do I really have it right? 

PS, I have political discussions on the MAX, not just politics, but they come up from time to time. I tend to ramble, so they don't always go anywhere, but sometimes we get some really interesting conversations going. Sometimes I just listen, other times I take lead. It's fun, talking with real people in person, in a public place. Should try it. It's amazing all the perspectives that are out there. 

I never said that I was triggered by that particular comment but since you said you don't know the guy you have no idea whether or not he was trolling in the first place (I know you were not, but you can't speak for him unless you didn't fully disclose int he first place).

A political comment out of the blue, especially with no intent to discuss it is trolling.  There's a difference between sitting on the MAX talking about politics and yelling "If you're not voting for Clinton you're a 'tard" as you hop off the bus.  Picking a name in an online game is pretty much always about getting a rise out of people, not fostering discussion.

If you fail to understand the point of this conversation, log into any MMO and watch public chat for a while.  People log in just to say things to see if they can get attention from people.  I've seen people admit that they have no interest in what they just said, they just wanted to see if they could keep the conversation going.  I'm not sure what it is about millenials (which seems to be the primary source of this behavior although not the sole source) that they don't care about honest discourse over the internet and they are more interested in attention-seeking.

 

To be honest, Pax, watching you here in the forums I have a hard time trying to decide whether or not you are a Troll because you really don't seem to follow basic arguments that the whole community repeats to you over and over and yet you work to keep the conversation going rather than letting things drop or simply agreeing to disagree.  (That and you have a tendency to assign your assumptions to other people, e.g. accusing me of being triggered when what I am really triggered by is your being obtuse, which is a classic troll technique.)

[InfestedKerrigan]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Duckman said:

I never said that I was triggered by that particular comment but since you said you don't know the guy you have no idea whether or not he was trolling in the first place (I know you were not, but you can't speak for him unless you didn't fully disclose int he first place).

A political comment out of the blue, especially with no intent to discuss it is trolling.  There's a difference between sitting on the MAX talking about politics and yelling "If you're not voting for Clinton you're a 'tard" as you hop off the bus.  Picking a name in an online game is pretty much always about getting a rise out of people, not fostering discussion.

If you fail to understand the point of this conversation, log into any MMO and watch public chat for a while.  People log in just to say things to see if they can get attention from people.  I've seen people admit that they have no interest in what they just said, they just wanted to see if they could keep the conversation going.  I'm not sure what it is about millenials (which seems to be the primary source of this behavior although not the sole source) that they don't care about honest discourse over the internet and they are more interested in attention-seeking.

 

To be honest, Pax, watching you here in the forums I have a hard time trying to decide whether or not you are a Troll because you really don't seem to follow basic arguments that the whole community repeats to you over and over and yet you work to keep the conversation going rather than letting things drop or simply agreeing to disagree.  (That and you have a tendency to assign your assumptions to other people, e.g. accusing me of being triggered when what I am really triggered by is your being obtuse, which is a classic troll technique.)

I didn't think he was, but I also didn't think usernames could be trolling, which has been corrected for me, so maybe he was and I didn't realize it. 

I am confused on one point. So far all of your examples of trolling are highly negative, obvious insults. I don't have trouble seeing those as trolling, but I do have trouble seeing how they related to things I said. 

Would a user name, "iLikeObama" be trolling? Example person is not saying she hates anyone or is insulting anything, just stating something they apparently like. Just an example, but I don't really see the comparison between "GodTrump2020" and "If you're not voting Clinton you're a 'tard.'" One is (we assume) talking about a hope for the future, while the other is purely insulting people in a direct capacity using derogitory slang. Your other example was "OregonDucksFootballAreRapists." Just seems like the crux of your examples is an obvious negative statement towards a group, while things I've been saying were more a person stating their interests (even if you strongly dislike their interests, seems more neutral than your examples).  

Regarding conversations on Ordo. I am obtuse, as in "slow to understand." I'm not stupid in the traditional sense, but I would argue that I am stupid in most practical applications of intelligence. I tend not to see things at same angle that others seem to see things at (not literally). I often feel that others overestimate my mental abilities, especially when debating against me in these online forums. I don't follow the mainstream media, but I do sometimes hear about concepts indirectly (usually related to a joke i have to look up in TV show). I am stubborn and an idealist, which are both traits I want to keep, but I do sympathize with the strain it can put on others in a debate. That said, I do learn from encounters, not maybe the same thing others would learn from the same encounter, but I do change, slowly, over time.  

PS: if you are confused at how I write in these forums, the idea is that each paragraph is one complete (and often unrelated) thought. I've just noticed that it's easier to read lots of little paragraphs in these forums than it is to read a page of writting. Dunno, was just thinking that I don't really adhere to the traditional essay, where the opening, content, and conclusion are known based on where they are in the page's format. This sort of thing tends to confused college people (because the arangement of the paragraphs was really hammered into you via many years of school). 

[Ish]

It’s all about context. “iLikeObama” as a username wouldn’t seem out of place on, say, the Democratic Underground forum or a DailyKos comment thread. It would certainly raise eyebrows in National Review comment thread. 

Given that “trolling” is pretty much just weaponized rudeness, it can be hard to pin down. There’s no objective, empirical, and falsifiable definition of “trolling,” it is a subjective thing. You just kind of know it when you see it... Breaking social mores, disrupting other people’s activities, clamoring for attention, and other such behavior can be just as “trolling” as outright spoken insults.

Basically, if someone does something online that makes you think “gee, that guy’s a real feminine hygiene product.” Then you are probably looking at a troll.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Ish said:

It’s all about context. “iLikeObama” as a username wouldn’t seem out of place on, say, the Democratic Underground forum or a DailyKos comment thread. It would certainly raise eyebrows in National Review comment thread. 

Context would be the name you use to play video games with. And most of the user names really don't mean much, since our first pick always already taken.... And on the PS4, you aren't allowed to change your name without creating a new account, so many names don't have the same meaning to the user that it had when they picked it. 

I certainly wasn't under the impression that my account name would also be my display name for the PS4. Seems like a grevious security error on behalf of Sony. Plus, it's annoying with online MMORPGs, like elder scrolls, to not be able to just character names....I kinda feel like the PS4 is the prototype online console, so we're just a bunch of practice kids.

 

[Ish]

The DreamCast was an online console, so was the PS2, PS3, X-Box, and X-Box 360. To say nothing of PC gaming.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ish said:

The DreamCast was an online console, so was the PS2, PS3, X-Box, and X-Box 360. To say nothing of PC gaming.

You know as well as I that PC is not considered console, even though they really have the same parts these days. 

Yes, earlier consoles could also go online, but the capacity was differrent. PS4 has a "share" button built into the controller for taking screen shots to share with your friends. There are very few non-online games availible for the PS4. I expect the next console to only work while connected to the internet (And the ps4 is pretty close to that already), and I wouldn't be that surprised if single player games will get phased out. Sad. 

Meanwhile, my PS2 did not come with a modem slot, but required buying a seperate attachment to play FF online. Or was that the PS3? I get them mixed up. They have lots of editions of each, with actual physical differences between the editions. But the PS4 is definitely built around the idea of all your use being online, while the PS2 definitely had it as an after thought and the PS3 allows it to an extent, but it wasn't as focused. 

That dreamcast was ahead of it's time, for sure. I would not be surprised if it was online too. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

The dreamcast is online capable.

The merits and capabilities of those systems have nothing to do with what Ish was saying.

 

He was saying for as long as people have been able to have usernames, people have been trolling. I mean, the apostles of early christianity were trolling Nero saying the mark of the beast was 616.

So many theatre performances, too, are trolling the upper class, or ruling figures. 

Satire and trolling run a very fine parallel lineset.

[Ish]

2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

You know as well as I that PC is not considered console, even though they really have the same parts these days. 

Hence my use of the rhetorical device “To say nothing of[...]” meaning that I was introducing an additional fact that reinforced the larger point being made. 

A username, in and of itself, is not trolling. Just like the word “jerk” is not, in and of itself, an insult. Context is what matters.

”Jerk on that rope.” means something different than “Go away, jerk.” 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I mean, the apostles of early christianity were trolling Nero saying the mark of the beast was 616.

Maybe not here, but that sounds like an interesting story.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

The dreamcast is online capable.

The merits and capabilities of those systems have nothing to do with what Ish was saying.

He was responding to me, I was talking about username issues with the PS4. We didn't have the same issues with the earlier, less online based consoles. I believe the PS4 was the first (for me) where my account name is publicly displayed as my character's name in every online encounter. The others could go online, but the online was different. They'd not see your account name. More privacy, but that wasn't really the issue for me, it was that the character's name has nothing to do with the game and it takes away from the setting. 

Kinda like retrieving lost email accounts. Tried to get into my hotmail account a couple of times now. Microsoft doesn't believe I'm me. They want me to "tell them the credit card I used on the old account" or the "phone number for the old account" but they didn't used to ask for this sort of information before (back when hotmail was entirely free), so it's not on there and there's nothing to compare. 

My Myspace page is the same problem. It's tied to a SprintPCS email, and Sprint ditched that entire domain a long while ago, so it's just gone. Myspace won't delete or allow changes to the account without proof that I can't provide because it wasn't a thing when I created the account. I'm not really upset, but it's annoying. 

[WestRider]

The lyrics from Do It Again by Steely Dan fit really well to the tune of Tom's Diner by Suzanne Vega.

[InfestedKerrigan]

On 10/30/2018 at 1:07 PM, paxmiles said:

Maybe not here, but that sounds like an interesting story.

An Aramaic scroll from Wadi Murabba'at, dated to "the second year of Emperor Nero", refers to him by his name and title.^[38] In Hebrew it is Nron Qsr (pronounced "Nerōn Kaisar"). In Latin it is Nro Qsr(pronounced "Nerō Kaisar").

 

Nron Qsr

The Greek version of the name and title transliterates into Hebrew as נרון קסר‎, and yields a numerical value of 666,^[38] as shown:

Resh (ר)	Samekh (ס)	Qoph (ק)	Nun (נ)	Vav (ו)	Resh (ר)	Nun (נ)	Sum
200	60	100	50	6	200	50	666

Nro Qsr

The Latin version of the name drops the second Nun (נ), so that it appears as Nro and transliterates into Hebrew as נרו קסר, yielding 616:^[19]

Resh (ר)	Samekh (ס)	Qoph (ק)	Vav (ו)	Resh (ר)	Nun (נ)	Sum
200	60	100	6	200	50	616

[Yarbicus]

15 hours ago, WestRider said:

The lyrics from Do It Again by Steely Dan fit really well to the tune of Tom's Diner by Suzanne Vega.

My mind = blown

[WestRider]

18 minutes ago, Yarbicus said:

My mind = blown

I forgot to mention, it is just the verses. The chorus doesn't fit. But yeah. It's trippy.