Guest Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Okay, so I understand how psychic powers work for most of the CSM codex, but these thousand sons seem iffy. Used to be (6th), I'm level 1 psyker with MoT, so I have to take at least one power my Tzeentch list of psychic powers. This edition, they totally changed it. As I read it, my level 1 unit character psyker get's the primaris power automatically due to Chaos psychic focus. In addition, I get another power, but these is where I get stuck. Book says I must roll at least one from my deity (Christianity, of course... ). FAQ says I can roll demonology in addition to the ones I could normally roll based on the unit entry. Thousand Sons character completely lacks a unit entry that says which powers he can take. Thousand sons aren't mentioned in the FAQ directly. We do have a more general entry for psykers that includes the must roll half restriction and includes the list of other disciplines allowed. In the previous edition, there wasn't a bonus power, so the level 1 was the only roll, so you'd be forced to roll on the tzeentch table to get one of the Tzeentch powers, then maybe swap for the primaris of that set. So, here's 5 ways I can see it working: 1st, Psyker just get's the primaris power due to chaos psychic focus because, despite a general section for psykers and being level, it doesn't directly say he get's any rolls on the table as it does for the other psykers in the codex. 2nd, Primaris goes to psyker due to Chaos psychic focus, then I must roll on the Tzeentch table for a second power because I must roll at least one of my "rolled" powers with tzeentch. 3rd, Primaris power on psyker due to chaos focus, but for my rolled power, I can take either demonology or tzeentch, because the FAQ allows demonology in addition to my normal options (which in this case would normally be only tzeentch). 4th, primaris power is gained for psychic focus, but counts as my mandatory 1 power from tzeentch. Second power rolled can be from any discipline a chaos psyker could normally take, including demonology. I cannot roll any powers on the tzeentch discipline because at most, I am restricted to half my powers from that discipline. 5th, Primaris power from chaos focus counts for mandatory power, but isn't considered a roll. I may now roll one more power from any normal discipline I'd have access to as a CSM psyker, including tzeentch, as I haven't rolled any from that discipline yet. Thoughts? PS: none of these are overly broken, but they dramatically change how the unit functions in the army, or rather, how it can function. In terms of intentions, RAW is clear that we should use the 6th edition format for rolling psychic powers.... That choice isn't in the above because the rules no longer support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Demons don't have the roll clause. Chaos focus is the "replacement" of the standard focus every one gets. TS champion is a level one that has to Roll a power from the tzeentch table. He then picks up the primaris in addition. In this edition all chaos marine psykers will have two diety specific powers the one they have to roll and the primaris. Any other powers they could generate can be from the other tables. The TS champ doesn't have other disciplines listed as he would never get a chance to roll on them any way. Edit:just noticed the half thing I'd forgotten about! That is a real conundrum, no solution meets all raw...unless I review the faq and find something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Edit:just noticed the half thing I'd forgotten about! That is a real conundrum, no solution meets all raw...unless I review the faq and find something... Yeah, it's a confusing one. FAQ creates additional issues....see amendments. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Chaos_Space_Marines_v1.0_May14.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Huh...okay, here's an added one, now that I'm thinking about it. If I substitute a rolled power for a primaris power of another discipline, does it count it as a rolled the power for the purposes of my CSM psyker limitations? Example, level 3 psyker. I go with tzeentch. Auto get the CSM psychic focus. Must roll once for Tzeentch. I roll once on biomancy and substitute for the primaris power. Was the biomancy primaris power "rolled"? Can my 4th power, the last roll, be on the tzeentch table? Or, since I'm only using two "rolled" powers now that I've swapped, am I restricted to just a non-tzeentch power roll due to my upper limit of no more than half the rolled powers being for my deity? Honestly, I think the chaos psychic focus replaces the restriction of half and minimum of a single roll. Just so much easier to work out in my head. So TS unit champ is going to start with Tzeentch's Firestorm, plus a single roll on daemonology, biomancy, pyromancy, telepathy, or the tzeench disipline. The CSM tzeentch disapline has a remarkably lame primaris power anyway... (24", variable strength, no ap, small blast, which adds very weak explosions to infantry actually killed with the initial attack). That primaris power might be nice with a regular bolter unit and cheaper infantry, but that thousand sons unit with ap3 bolters has that chaos psychic focus written off as a loss. In terms of cheesy daemon farming, those TS units are base 150pts for a level 1 psyker - no daemonfarming here. I'd rather just buy the daemons in points if that's what I need in the list. A very comparable unit is the BA Librarian Dreadnought, in terms of cost and value to the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dustynutts Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Fanatic, to answer your question...... Free powers, like ones listed in a unit entry or gained through Chaos focus are generated powers. In "The Rules", under psychic phase, in the section titled "Generating Psychic Powers" they talk about free powers vs random generation. Just to be clear any thing under the title "Generating Psychic Powers" is a generated psychic power. In Codex: Chaos Space Marines there are two contradicting rules about generation of psychic powers. Under Marks of Chaos it says you have to generate 1 power (notice no "randomly" or rolled) from your patron deities discipline. Under psychic powers it says you must roll for one of your patron deities powers. It also says that Chaos Space Marine Psykers have access to Biomancy, Daemonology, Pyromancy, or Telepathy disciplines. It's my belief that the chaos focus is intended to fulfill the need to generate the deities power, thus giving the Thousand Sons (unit) Aspiring Sorcerer access to one Biomancy, Daemonology, Pyromancy, or Telepathy power. So it really comes down to your 4th and 5th options. Also in the 4th option, Codex: Chaos Space Marines says only half of your rolled powers can be from patron deities discipline. All my info is obtained through digital copies, just in case any one is having a hard time finding it. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dustynutts Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Sorry, I got confused on we're the names were. The above was meant for Paxmiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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