Nice write up of KoW

[Brother Glacius]

http://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2015/07/switching-from-warhammer-8th-edition-to.html

[McNathanson]

Great info to share with my fellow WFB'ers.

 

I did note that they are following GW's super-annoying trend of Bretonnia being dead last.  [big bad swear word] that!

[McNathanson]

And my other two armies (Dark Elves and Khorne Mortals) are both Proxy books under dev... bummer!!

 

In the meantime I'll look at Basilia and KoMen for my Brets... seems like a decent fit for the army I have (Peasants and a few Knights).

[indytims]

Quick question for you KOW-folk:

 

I looked at the article blog article BG posted, and I am focused on the first chart, the one that discusses unit type, model base type, Troop, Regiment, Horde, Legion.

 

Model base (mm) I assume is the size of base that a single model of that type is/should be mounted on. So a human might be on a typical 20mm base, while an orc/gargoyle/salamander would be on a 25mm base.

 

Then, TROOP, REGIMENT, HORDE, LEGION, I gather are different 'unit sizes' that you can purchase, and it gives the dimension for the 'footprint size' that unit should measure.

 

So if I bought a Regiment of Humans, for example, the unit base size (footprint) should be 100mm x 80 mm.... but what does the '20' represent? Is that the number of models that SHOULD be placed/displayed/mounted on that base?

 

If that's the case, I am a little confused, as I've had people tell me that the actual number of models on any given base doesn't matter, since you don't actually remove models when a unit takes damage.

 

Is that number (in this case, '20' for the human regiment) meant as only a 'starting point', or a 'suggestion'? As long as you are reasonably near 20, you should be ok?

 

And the Unit sizes provided... those never change? You can't 'reformed' into a single-file line, for example, or anything like that?

 

I've seen folks talking about mounting figs directly onto a proper sized movement tray... and that definitely has an attractiveness to it, that the 'shape' of the unit will main static throughout the game. Is that the case?

 

Thanks for any answers you can provide. :)

 

-Tim

[generalripphook]

What it means is that if you wanted to use the 20mm base size and the fact there are 20 men and a calculator to do the math on how big the base is going to be. 

 

No there is no reforming. 

[Sammy]

The number you're looking at should be a total model number count. So a troops is 10 models in two ranks of 5. A regiment is 20 in four ranks of 4, a horde is 40 in four ranks of 10. That's from memory, so the numbers might be off.

[indytims]

What it means is that if you wanted to use the 20mm base size and the fact there are 20 men and a calculator to do the math on how big the base is going to be. 

 

No there is no reforming. 

 

So let's say in my example (Human Regiment), I have the proper sized-base (100 x 80) which, if using humans or dwarves on 20mm bases, means it should form a block 5 models wide by 4 models deep.

 

Lets say I have some human figs I would like to use from a different game, only they are mounted on 25mm bases, so I can only fit 16 models on a 100 x 80 base.

 

Since model count isn't ultimately important - would it be legal to have 15-16 models on the base (instead of 20) as long as the -base- is the correct size?

 

I admit - I am looking at my collection of over 1500 LotR figs... mounted on 25mm round bases and thinking out loud. If I could fit 15-16 figs on a regiment base (instead of the 20 listed), WITHOUT having to rebase any figs... I'd instantly have 3-4 playable armies for the game and would PROBABLY wet my pants. :)

 

But if the number of models on a base is a hard requirement, then I'd need to rebase, and that isn't likely a possibility, really.

[jesselowe]

I can't give an official ruling but I personally have no problem with going by unit frontage regardless of base size or number of models. Most of my undead are mounted 4 to a 40mm square base, and I'll be using some diorama fillers as well.

[McNathanson]

Quick question for you KOW-folk:

 

I looked at the article blog article BG posted, and I am focused on the first chart, the one that discusses unit type, model base type, Troop, Regiment, Horde, Legion.

 

Model base (mm) I assume is the size of base that a single model of that type is/should be mounted on. So a human might be on a typical 20mm base, while an orc/gargoyle/salamander would be on a 25mm base.

 

Then, TROOP, REGIMENT, HORDE, LEGION, I gather are different 'unit sizes' that you can purchase, and it gives the dimension for the 'footprint size' that unit should measure.

 

So if I bought a Regiment of Humans, for example, the unit base size (footprint) should be 100mm x 80 mm.... but what does the '20' represent? Is that the number of models that SHOULD be placed/displayed/mounted on that base?

 

If that's the case, I am a little confused, as I've had people tell me that the actual number of models on any given base doesn't matter, since you don't actually remove models when a unit takes damage.

 

Is that number (in this case, '20' for the human regiment) meant as only a 'starting point', or a 'suggestion'? As long as you are reasonably near 20, you should be ok?

 

And the Unit sizes provided... those never change? You can't 'reformed' into a single-file line, for example, or anything like that?

 

I've seen folks talking about mounting figs directly onto a proper sized movement tray... and that definitely has an attractiveness to it, that the 'shape' of the unit will main static throughout the game. Is that the case?

 

Thanks for any answers you can provide. :)

 

-Tim

 

 "Correct" to all your questions (and to your own answer to the one non-binary question about what 20 represents).

 

The text on this from the rulebook (my bold):

 

 

If a unit consists of a large number of

models, it is far more convenient when

moving it around to place a ‘movement

tray’ underneath it – that way you

effectively have a single object to move on

the battlefield rather than a large number

of them (say 20 Elf infantry models). This

speeds up gameplay immensely. The ideal

movement tray is a piece of plastic, thick

cardboard or plasticard that is cut to the

exact space occupied by the bases of the

models forming the unit, and painted

to match the colour of their bases. For

example, a regiment of 20 Elf infantry

models occupy a rectangluar tray 100mm

wide and 80mm deep. If the tray has a

little ‘lip’ around the unit (normally up to

a couple of millimetres wide), this does not

matter and player should agree to either

always ignore the lip when measuring

distances (our favourite solution) or to

always measure distances from/to it – as

long as this is done consistently for all

units and both sides, it should not present

a problem.

It is even faster, not to mention more

practical, to actually glue the models’

bases directly onto the tray – that way you

have an army that effectively consists of a

very small number of individual ‘elements’

– very compact and easy to store and

transport. Some people even go to the

next level, and glue their models directly

onto the tray, without first placing them

on their individual bases. We refer to

these solutions as ‘multibases’. Multibases

are very useful, but make sure that the

multibase itself conforms to the correct

size for the ranked up models as if their

were mounted onto their individual bases.

To continue the example above, you could

mount the 20 Elf infantry models directly

onto a 100x80mm multibase.

This last way of mounting models directly

onto the multibase offers great modelling

opportunities, as the multibase can

effectively be treated as a mini-diorama

in itself, creating great looking and very

individual units like the ones shown below.

You might even end up with a little more or

less than the correct number of models on

the multibase – this is fine, but it must be

reasonably close to the correct amount, so

that there is no chance of misleading your

opponents in regards to the real size of the

unit. It’s best to quickly explain to your

opponent what your units are before you

play to clarify anything like this.

Unit Leaders,

Banners and Musicians

Some units include models that are

equipped differently from the rest of the

unit – normally the unit’s leader, bannerbearer

and musician. These models count

as being equipped like the rest of the

models in the unit and have a purely

decorative function in the game – placed

in the front rank of your unit, they offer

you a good chance of showing off your

painting skills and help making the unit

look splendid and unique.

 

So there isn't anything in the rules other than "reasonably close", and "a little more or less".  What's reasonable?  Well it talks about being clear, but that's easy with a huge tray sized unit.  I dunno, I'd say it's pretty flexible, although if you model a "Legion" of 80 models using only 45 models and a bunch of filler, that is probably pushing it too far IMO.  

 

Not clear, but hopefully people won't abuse this and show up with a tray of fillers and a front rank!

[Brother Glacius]

The main book talks about base size depending on the race. The typical base size if 20mm. Certain armies (like orcs) have a 25mm base size. The book goes into detail about what the formation footprint should be.

 

That being said, the number of models in a base does not matter. You could create a regiment base with only 5 models and a bunch of cool terrain on it. They don't care. Since you don't remove models, it doesn't matter. KoW really makes things nice by letting you build from the base up in terms of units. So build the trays first, and then decorate however you want.

[Kremmet]

And my other two armies (Dark Elves and Khorne Mortals) are both Proxy books under dev... bummer!!

 

In the meantime I'll look at Basilia and KoMen for my Brets... seems like a decent fit for the army I have (Peasants and a few Knights).

 

Dark Elves are just getting more redone than the other factions with this book.  There's a link to the KoW2 equivalent of their old rules (written by Mantic) floating around somewhere.

[indytims]

Thanks for the answers, fellas. :)