Lord Hanaur

Never?

Im in dude. i can play a 3E Eldar codex maybe? or maybe a 3E Chaos codex? I wonder how that would look in a 6E ruleset? We should totally do this sometime.

Im not sad that I missed this. However i did prove one thing: You could be very happy NOT focusing or buying that stuff also. Which is really my central point. I never lost a game because of someone bringing their Ork gargant or whatever that crazy beasty was called from Chapter Approved. I never lost a game BECAUSE I didn't NORMALLY use trial assault rules (though I WAS actually forced to use them a few times at tournies now that i think back and a couple players just absolutely INSISTED so it was like "crap, fine,you can insist on playing Trial assault rules against my TAU. Sure dude..."). The Data slates and such cant make me lose. They are just codex supplements like Black Legion so meh, if i know the main codex, I can pretty well guess what the army will do. I've played you and others on ordo and would say that the opposing list has not daunted me. My respect is more for the Generals. I also recall the blood angels White Dwarf codex, but there again, it wasn't like i didn't know how Marine forces worked. So in the end, what I needed to beat them was just a cursory understanding of what their units could do, not knowing every word of it or OWNING every book. A lot of people are feeling compelled to buy books to keep up and I think that it's wiser just to scan it, internalize it and then just NOT play it or buy it. Wallets talk. I promise you, you can know everything you NEED to know about this stuff by reading blogs. Really. And what you dont know about them isn't going to catch you off guard more than once. In pick up games, Im just not down with the added stuff beyond codex's and supplements to that codex. So feel a lot of people. And i think it's okay to feel diametrically on the other side of that coin actually. But for the good of the game between you and I, my hope is you can play one of a thousand possibilities that don't include those things and have a good time. Maybe save the "crazy" stuff for games with people who like it.

German Panzergrenadiers Best General 2004, ENFILADE), and I have a Stug G Batterie that actually looks pretty decent (got best general with it at Enfilade a couple years ago). Coulda gotten it all with decent paint :(

You're welcome. So this is updated: Obliterator Obliterator Mutilator Mutilator Mutilator 5 Black Legion Chaos Marines(Veterans of the Long War) Rhino (Dirge Caster) 5 Black Legion Chaos Marines (Veterans of the Long War) Rhino (Dirge Caster) 5 Chaos Marines Rhino (Dirge Caster) Sorcerer (Meltabomb, Aura of Dark Glory, Mark of Nurgle, Level 2) Black Legion Chaos Lord "Cruise Missile Bob" (Chaos Bike, Blight Grenades, Veteran of the Long War, Hand of Darkness, Combat Familiar, Combi-Melta, Mark of Nurgle, Sigil of Corruption, Eye of Night) 14 Nurgle Raptors (2 x Meltaguns, Power Axe+Meltabombs) 14 Nurgle Raptors (2 x Meltaguns, Power Axe + Meltabombs) Heldrake w Baleflamer

the base is huge I know that. i laid my hands on it and its big. looks like the model is Riptide sized, just a little taller. anger rising... Riptide smashing!

well i am actually going to be doing this soon. I'm waiting for the cash to break free but i have already (long ago, hope he's not mad at me) agreed to have Aventine paint up my Tau and maybe i'll have CGR painters do the Germans. Then I'd be all out of excuses wouldn't I be? hehehe.

hmm... that would be kinda interesting. i wonder how to reconcile some of the stuff. but that would be interesting.

Well Pax, that's why i said there were some decisions to be made by TO's for sure. And losing battle or not, it is more likely than less likely to be easier on new players if they are not forced to account for the enormous explosion of options. Under no logical paradigm is it more sensical to view it as EASIER than HARDER to handle that explosion. Consider this: every codex is a new challenge and the fun of playing is nearly inexhaustible with the current codex's now. How can one person HONESTLY get ENOUGH games in, in a year, against all those codex's, to ever really find the end of the interesting challenges? So i dont need those supplements to get a more than satisfying experience from the game. And if you and I dont WANNA play with them, then shoot man: Let's NOT! Instead of getting all upset at GW (and look at what good its doing), just lets AGREE not to give a rats fart about that other stuff, and maybe just play the extras when we get together to do Apocalypse? You and I don't need GW permission to bash each others skull in with the 16 or 18 codex's that are out there right now and we'll have FUN doing it. I dont need to rage quit 40K. I can just NOT include that stuff for now. Maybe later? Who knows? Tourney organizers are the ones with tough choices to make. Not you and i. Our choice is simple: we like each other and we wanna play. Let's do it and forget the drama.

I feel you CAN ignore them. I think lots of people ARE ignoring them. I think enjoying the game is of paramount importance to me and if that means i just kinda...DONT buy any of this stuff, relying on store copies and buddies who are way more interested in the new hotness, i can be very happy playing and so can you. I think the competitor in us says "I don't want to lose just because I never saw X, Y and Z coming" and that's where a lot of frustration is coming from. The competitive part of the brain says "I gotta keep up with the Joneses' and leads you to one of two conclusions: Frustration over the futility of trying OR an inexplicable drive to go ahead and DO it so you can feel "safe" that you wont lose out of ignorance. My response to my inner competitor was this: don't buy it, just borrow it so its familiar and then be honest with opponents: "I dont wanna play against Titans, Void shields, Forgeworld Drop Pods, and {fill in the blanks}. Can we just duke it out with the OTHER 1 million models at our disposal?". Obviously we can also play units USING that stuff, but i wanna KNOW in advance and i want to agree to it. i dont want to feel it foisted upon me by a munchkin in a pickup game. Pick up games seem the wrong place for games like that. maybe its just me (and it could be) but pick up games are the majority of my games.

I dont remember ever owning a white Dwarf in 3rd OR 4th Edition. Once briefly (SOB codex). Chapter Approved was simply ignored as the nuisance it was by many. I never even OWNED Chapter Approved. Just looked at it or borrowed it. So not until NOW have we REALLY had to buy much. You can read the store copy of the codex and get the gist. Memorizing every word probably isn't necessary (unless you just hate and distrust all opponents). I think it safe to say that this is a comparatively overwhelming pace. However, I also think, as before, that you can just say "Hey opponent, I dont play X and Y, so plan accordingly". The time this comes up is Tournies. Sadly, the TO has some decisions to make. And in the interest of younger players, i think the conservative path is the right one for a while.

This. 1. Have the copious releases dimmed your interest? 2. has it dimmed your interest in playing or just playing tournies? That's what i got out of it.

Well I'd like to point out that in Black Legion armies you can roll off to use the Alter of War missions. and one of the Alter of War missions makes elites important! I'm a REALLY big fan of some of those missions. I am SO praying that OFCC takes some of those and tries to use them or modify them. I have enjoyed all three Alter of War Missions in the Black Legion codex and the games were WAY closer than some I normally play. In one, you have to table the enemy or lose. seems brutal. You get to surround your opponent. And thats bad for them. You get unlimited forces (using a modified "without Number" type mechanic). And thats bad for them. Seems hard right? But then the catch is, Defender armies can use reserves to essentially avoid the gauntlet and of course you cant charge in turn 1 when you go first anyways. So you end up with furious fighting all over the place and careful use of and guarding of terrain becomes an important aspect of the mission so you cant just unleash your forces mindlessly forward even despite that you would want to for rear the enemy will come in an unguarded sector and out of your reach (especially since you cant assault the round you come on). Its pretty engaging. As the Black Legion, your mission of annihilation will be fun even if you lose. As the defender, you'll be quite proud of your cleverness as you manage to keep boots on the ground and force the enemy to respond to "trouble areas" or decoy them. Fun. Anyways, the Elites thing reminded me that the mission does make elites important.so maybe more Alter of War missions are coming.

A... bad ass?

It doesn't suck. Just unpopular and thus a surprising choice. I am really fond of the model but in game it kinda gets wrecked a little faster than I'd like.

Helbrutes are pretty unpopular. This is an interesting kit release.

so ironic. They finally give us the Warmachine treatment (massive release all at essentially one time with ongoing supplements later) and we aren't happy? hehehe. Im not either but I'm just saying, its ironic. But look at it this way: when you started 40K, you didn't know all the material and codex's. so in some ways its not really all that big a difference between when we first started playing and now. I just think that players, like me, who have grown good at the game feel ourselves unable to cope initially with the wash of info and probably are going to lose some games early on to unexpected stuff that, later, we wont. But those losses will seem magnified by the "newb factor" where you kind of feel like you have no idea what to do to counter this new threat.

You may be on to something there... You know... I thought about that scene in the movie 7. then i looked at that picure of a Pyrovore... and then I thought about that scene in 7 again and...shudder...

Broadsides with the buffmander leading them is pretty ripper. I'd include Kroot and Krootox though. Fire Warriors are cool. Krootox are silly cool.

Pyrovores... Good lord. What were they thinking?

Except with this build, the troops are 40 strong and 30 strong respectively, with commissars. So the charge gives the 40 man unit 20 STR 5 Power axe attacks. So in this case,,, Melee with them is not as easy as other places. BUT, the trouble is the lascannons and Grenade launchers need to be free to fire as long as they can. It will often be the case that we face multiwound and monstrous things as well as tanks. We gotta spend some TIME popping them, time that we will lose if we get tied up. Mechanized eldar in particular are WELL known for their hulls ability to reduce penetrates to glances so EVEN if the cover save fails, we still have a pretty tough row to ho getting through those hulls. A WraithKnight could end our chances of that (for example). DreadKnights are no less a risk. so it pays to have a bulwark. Maybe.

Let me show you the list I am working on. As you'll see there's a real threat to their ability to score if that unit gets tied up for overmuch time. There are a couple of changes coming due to things that have been pointed out to me, namely the redundant commissar and the PERHAPS kneejerk inclusion I made of a Hydra (both skimmers and flyers are in almost every enemy list so it does not seem a waste anymore to have a Flak tank BUUUUUT... My Vindettas MIGHT be enough to handle things. So there are points to spend when Im done tweaking but this is where its at now. 2000 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster 1 Inquisitor Coteaz 4 Company Command Squad + Carapace Armor 1 Lord Castellan Creed, 1 Chimera (Hunter Killer Missile) 4 Platoon Command Squad, + Meltagun x4 1 Platoon Commander 7 Infantry Squad, + Grenade Launcher x1 1 Heavy Weapons Team, + Lascannon 1 Sergeant, + Power Weapon + Melta bomb 1 Commisar + power weapon 7 Infantry Squad, + Grenade Launcher x1 1 Heavy Weapons Team, + Lascannon 1 Sergeant, + Power Weapon +_ Melta Bomb 7 Infantry Squad, + Grenade Launcher x1 1 Heavy Weapons Team, + Lascannon 1 Sergeant, + Power Weapon + Melta bomb 7 Infantry Squad, + Grenade Launcher x1 1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon 1 Sergeant, + Power Weapon + Melta bomb 4 Platoon Command Squad, + Meltagun x4 1 Platoon Commander 7 Infantry Squad, + Grenade Launcher x1 1 Heavy Weapons Team, + Lascannon 1 Sergeant, + Power Weapon + Meltabomb 7 Infantry Squad, + Grenade Launcher x1 1 Heavy Weapons Team, + Lascannon 1 Sergeant, + Power Weapon + Melta Bomb 7 Infantry Squad+ Grenade Launcher x1 1 Heavy Weapons Team, + Lascannon 1 Sergeant, + Power Weapon + Melta Bomb 1 Guardsman Marbo 6 Psyker Battle Squad 1 Overseer 7 Psyker Battle Squad 1 Overseer 1 Vendetta+ Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2 1 Vendetta+ Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2 1 Manticore 1 Leman Russ Exterminator + Lascannon+ Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2 Models: 109 models HQ: 1 Elite: 3 Troops: 4-9 Fast: 1 (or 2?) Heavy: 2

OKay i tried the Hand of Darkness. i was fighting the dread Tyranids this time. His list roughly Pair of Dakkafex's Flyrant 30 gaunts 3 Biovores Tervigon 2 venomthropes pair of Zoanthropes some Ravagers (very cool) 4 Shrikes (also really cool) 4 Warriors and... I dont remember anything else but that was basically it. Dayam. that is one BAD ASS Artifact. You get one shot with it but SO WHAT. It just CRUSHED a Dakkafex and the Sorcerer crushed the other with his force weapon. BLAM. monster guts everywhere. Woulda killed the Exocrine too if it hadn't overwatch'd me to death. Sigh. I think that Black Legion Chaos Lords are FEARSOME. Expensive too but they just can dish it OUT. I was trying to make a Powerfist work on him and it just wasn't happening. His role in the army is just too specific and those he fights are NEVER good news. So i just decided to pay the points and suck it up. I probably will never go without that thing again. It solves SO many problems I was having. It DOES make him less effective against vehicles since you lose the extra attacks you'd normally bring to bear on the vehicle with the power fist but that is a SMALL price to pay and it turns the power fist into a one shot Chainfist. I'll take it! Final score was 7-4. he was winning until the last round pretty much but i managed to pull it off.

psyker augments might help. Biomancy?

Im a 10 year veteran of the IG (though i dont play them nearly as frequently as other forces). Exploring unusual ideas is kind of my thing though. I'm not in a position to say you're wrong. I am just in a position to wonder out loud how to use such a tool. So I guess this is me throwing it out there for people to find a USEFUL way to maybe use it. I can find 100 people on Dakkadakka that can tell me how "it'll never work". We tend to have a few people on here who are at least willing to discuss it, if not actually support it, which is why i posted the question here and not there. The incredible LACK of imagination on Dakkadakka is oppressive (though there are a few kindred spirits on Dakkadakka which is why i haven't completely abandoned it). Im not even sure *I* support this idea yet. But I am interested in thinking about how to make it work for me. I am interested in providing some close combat oomph to my army and i am just not convinced that the IG codex can do THIS job another way. Consider that the 140 points could take the form of Special Weapons Squads, but they are the same basic size as PCS. They are going to be able to be plasmatastic, but cant fight and aren't any moe accurate. Still, a possibility. It could take the form of heavy weapons teams but the AP 3 or 2 need makes ther lack of volume not great at the job. So as i see it, good options might be: Straken and company This Platoon Command idea Special Weapons Squad and skip the melee component altogether. Special Weapons cant hold the line for a round, so it does take away some of what we were trying to accomplish which was stop the charge. For if the special weapons aren't enough (and thats really really possible) the charge will happen AND the special weapons squad will be lost. So you can see why the ability to survive ONE round of combat provides a lot of value. It halts an entire round of whatevr that daemon was going to do and forces it to face me in its shooting phase so i now can finish it off (or die trying), leaving it in the open. Wraith knights being the really really annoying ones to deal with.