Dusldorf

Wow, cultists are losing the <Legion> keyword

Went to a tourney a few days back and, after scoring 41 points in round 1, I lost my second game to a Death Guard army featuring Mortarion, Ahriman, three plagueburst crawlers, two daemon princes, a leviathan dreadnought w/ double butcher cannons, and maybe one or two other things that I forget. Death Guard is one of my weakest match-ups, and after this I realized it was time to plug a pretty glaring hole in my list: its inability to deal with 4+ invulnerable saves on primarchs and stuff like that. (Note that knights have hardly ever been a problem for me, since they can be easily move-blocked with infantry; but Mortarion is pretty much unstoppable unless I kill him turn 1.)

So I've rewritten my list to include three Librarians, so that I can cast Null Zone with Empyric Channeling and put some serious hurt on things like Morty. Getting Null Zone in the right place requires a lot of mobility, and all three Librarians were chosen for that purpose: the White Scars one can advance 20", the Phobos one can cast Temporal Corridor on himself to get a free advance, and the Blood Angels one can either double move with Wings of Sanguinius or deep strike into position. These choices meant giving up the Sisters and the Space Wolves, with only the core Vostroyan Battalion remaining. I chose Black Templars for the troops in my Space Marine Battalion since these give me the ability to deny on a 4+ just like the Sisters did, and with even more board coverage. The Manticore and Blood Angels smash captain together make up for (and some might say exceed) the shooting and close-combat perks that were provided by Bjorn. The Astropath will provide some added resilience to the Punisher Leman Russ, which is often among the first things that my opponents target. The Thunderfire Cannon's Tremor Shells, plus the Phobos Librarian's Tenebrous Curse power, will allow me to kite Knights and Orks with relative ease. And the list still has 85 reserve points for that tasty Assassin wildcard.

Overall I think this list has a lot more flexibility than my previous one, though it comes with some additional liabilities: nearly all of the characters are easy to kill if they get charged, meaning I need to be extra careful with my positioning. I also no longer have a a Sisters Rhino sitting in the midfield with a 5++ to screen my characters; the scouts will have to fulfill that role by hiding in enclosed ruins or otherwise out of LOS. Pretty excited to see how it does on the tabletop! Below the list I've also pasted some images of a few recent conversions, including the Astropath and Phobos Librarian (more pics can be found in my "Just Dusldorf Things" thread in the Artificers Forge sub-forum).

+ HQ +

Librarian in Phobos Armour: Camo cloak, Force sword (Raven Guard)

Librarian on Bike: Boltgun, Force sword, Twin boltgun (White Scars)

+ Troops +

Scout Squad (Black Templars)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad (Black Templars)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad (Black Templars)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Thunderfire Cannon (Black Templars)
. Techmarine Gunner
. . Servo-harness: Flamer, Plasma cutter

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Vostroyan

Vigilus Defiant: Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company

+ HQ +

Company Commander: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Emperor's Wrath, Warlord

Tank Commander: Heavy Bolter
. Command Punisher: Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon

Tank Commander: Heavy Bolter
. Command Exterminator: Turret-mounted Exterminator Autocannon

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath: Laspistol, Nightshroud

Master of Ordnance: Emperor's Wrath, Relic (Emperor's Wrath): Agripinaa-Class Orbital Tracker, Field Commander WT (Emperor's Wrath): Lord of Ordnance

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks: Emperor's Wrath
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter

Manticore: Heavy Bolter

Wyverns: Emperor's Wrath
. Wyvern: Heavy Bolter

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) ++

+ HQ +

Captain: Jump Pack, Thunder hammer

Librarian: Bolt pistol, Force axe, Jump Pack

+ Fast Attack +

Land Speeders
. Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

Land Speeders
. Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

Land Speeders
. Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

Phobos Librarian

Astropath

I've been using old Inquisitorial Acolyte models as Astropaths for a while, but today I decided it was time to convert a proper one. The body, stave, book, scroll, and head come from the Empire Flagellant sprue. The laspistol is from a Tempestus sergeant, the backpack from a regular Tempestus Scion, the mechanical tendrils are taken from the servoskull that floats above the Tempestus Commander, and the purity seal is from who-knows-where. I'm pretty pleased with how dynamic it turned out to be, and I'm excited to make the flames on his head look like warpflame.

My new list contains a Vanguard/Phobos Librarian, and I recently ordered some Reivers from Mindtaker Minis to convert one of my own. They arrived today, so I threw this guy together. The sword is the Xenophase Blade from the Deathwatch sprue; the horns are from Fantasy Beastmen; the waving ribbons/cloth on his back are from Bretonnian Knights; the hand holding the ghoul head is from also from Beastmen (I think); the book and scroll are from the Empire Fanatic sprue; and the Inquisition symbol is Forgeworld etched brass. Pretty psyched with how it turned out!

A couple of months ago I moved from NY back to CA, and this is the first week in a long time that I've had a usable hobby table. Better make the most of it!

My latest project is a home-brew Mephiston, since I am likely going to be trading out the Space Wolves in my ITC list for some Blood Angels. The reasoning behind that is a topic for my other thread and I'll go into it later. For now, I just want to share this bad boy:

The body and sword belong to the Captain from the Assault on Black Reach boxed set. For the pistol, I removed the master-crafted boltgun, trimmed down the arm and green-stuffed it back onto the shoulder socket; the pistol itself is a random bit from my bits box. The chalice-topped backpack comes from the Death Company sprue, and the halo comes from the old metal Celestine model - I had an extra laying around because my Celestine has third-party robot wings .

It was a fun, quick project and I'm really looking forward to putting him on the table. Here are some other angles:

Bloody Rose is at least as good as ebon chalice imo, and exorcists are def not good enough yet for exactly the reason cited - I tried it out for a few games and it was just too swingy. Maybe they'll move to 2d3 shots or something like that. 

Was just about to post this lol. Good to get some feedback, but I hope they consider adjusting more than just these three things!

Got second at Sunday's tourney out of 16 people; went 3-0 but had fewer VP than the 1st place winner. First game was against Deathwatch, second was against Drukhari Flesh Coven w/ Aeldari psyker support including Eldrad , and third game was against Catachan brigade + a House Raven Castellan and two Armigers. Wouldn't have won the second game without picking the Vindicare for my assassin wildcard (he got 3 important character kills including a warlock skyrunner, a haemonculus, and Urien), and wouldn't have won the third game without using a chess clock since my opponent was pretty slow, albeit a great guy (he ran out of time on the last turn and would probably have killed too much of my remaining stuff). Fun times 🙂

Got fourth at today's tourney out of 6 people. First game ended in a loss (17-21, IIRC) against Tau with 3 breacher squads, two 3-man battlesuit squads w/ ion, 2 ion commanders, 1 missile-pod coldstar, 2 ion riptides, a skyray, a bunch of drones and a few other things I'm forgetting. I made the most mistakes in this game, but learned a ton about Tau, my own army, which secondaries to go for, and how to move my units in order to deny the opponent's secondaries.

Second game was against 4 Knights + the Loyal 32. Ended in a draw on turn 3.

Third game was a win against Chaos Marines (Khorne + Iron Warriors). Pretty lulzy game and he only had a rhino alive at the end.

Looking forward to tomorrow's tourney where I can put some of the lessons learned to good use.

BTW the new ITC secondaries are pretty great, and I like how the Chapter Approved deployment rules are mixed in with the ITC (the former are used in the even-numbered missions, and the latter in the others).

Assuming the WD comes out this Friday, which my FLGS tells me is the case, I'll be taking the above list to two ITC tournaments this weekend. One is 40K at The Launchpad, and the other is March Kastle Brawl. Will post batreps here sometime next week!

Continuing to chew this over. The WGBL on bike rarely gets into combat, so I downsized him to a WGBL on foot, simply to contribute to the Bjorn/speeder castle. I also removed the Exorcist since its performance is so variable. The Deathstrike, once I have more bits, will actually be replaced by a Basilisk since this will be able to benefit from the Emperor's Wrath stratagems just like the Wyvern. I also realized that I so often choose the Recon ITC secondary objective that a throw-away drop pod will be useful for that and grabbing objectives; plus the WGBL has a storm bolter (upgradable to the Frostfury relic if the situation requires) and together with the drop pod could be quite potent against infantry from 24" range. I added some Dominions back in (with a budget transport this time) because I need to reliably deny powers like Da Jump or Warptime on the first turn, which they can do with the Purity of Faith stratagem. Here's the latest version, warlord traits and relics not listed except for the Vigilus ones that I'll always take:

+++ ITC_AM_SW_SoB_2k (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [124 PL, 13CP, 1915pts] +++

++ Reinforcement Points [85pts] ++ 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [50 PL, 6CP, 738pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Field Commander [-1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Vostroyan

Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Emperor's Wrath, Laspistol, Warlord

Tank Commander [12 PL, 167pts]: Heavy Bolter
. . Command Exterminator: Turret-mounted Exterminator Autocannon

Tank Commander [12 PL, 170pts]: Heavy Bolter
. . Command Punisher: Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. . 7x Guardsman
. . Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. . Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. . 7x Guardsman
. . Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. . Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. . Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Master of Ordnance [2 PL, 30pts]: Emperor's Wrath, Relic (Emperor's Wrath): Agripinaa-Class Orbital Tracker, WT (Emperor's Wrath): Lord of Ordnance

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks [7 PL, 108pts]: Emperor's Wrath
. . Basilisk: Heavy Bolter

Wyverns [6 PL, 103pts]: Emperor's Wrath
. . Wyvern: Heavy Bolter

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [39 PL, 1CP, 655pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [2CP (+1 from Bjorn)]

+ HQ +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 234pts]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon

Wolf Guard Battle Leader [4 PL, 62pts]: Chainsword, Storm bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Land Speeders [6 PL, 98pts]
. . Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

Land Speeders [6 PL, 98pts]
. . Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

Land Speeders [6 PL, 98pts]
. . Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [5 PL, 65pts]: Storm bolter

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [35 PL, 5CP, 522pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [5CP]

Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose

+ HQ +

Celestine [8 PL, 160pts]

Missionary [2 PL, 35pts]

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister
. . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister
. . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister
. . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Dominion Squad [5 PL, 60pts]
. . Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Storm bolter
. . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Seraphim
. . Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Bolt pistol

+ Dedicated Transport +

Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 77pts]: 2x Storm bolter

Got my ass handed to me by a buddy's Tau list that almost made it into top 8 at LVO. It's clear that I need more long-ranged firepower, so I took out the Rune Priest and some other toys to create this. It's largely the same list, but it can now out-range triple Riptide lists while still having the obsec bodies and assault potential to play board control. I left extra relics off of the list since they're more likely to change from game to game than in my previous list. I might use the Dagger of Tu'Sakh, for example, to outflank my Company Commander and a unit of guard in the same place where the assassin and Seraphim appear. The latter now function only as chaff clearers and/or a character screen, since I removed the special weapons. The tank-killing that I lost from units like that is more than made up for by the three typhoon land speeders. The Bjorn + land speeder + battle leader castle is a composition I used at the BAO two years back and it did very well. This list's greatest asset against Tau is that the Emperor's Wrath Wyvern can fire twice for 2 CP, and Vostroyan bonuses give it extra range and potential +1 to hit, not to mention re-rolling 1's due to the Master of Ordnance. The Vigilus specialist detachment and Field Commander warlord trait also allow it to ignore cover and even get -1 AP on 6's to wound, making it quite devastating against drones.. The one silly thing in the list is the Deathstrike, which I'm keen to try out because my conversion still hasn't seen the tabletop. It's also buffable with the Vostroyan stratagem and MoO, though, so it's definitely more deadly than one from a different regiment. But I'll be replacing it with a Manticore for the same point cost after I order some more bits...I have the Manticore turret but not the chassis.

+++ ITC_AstraMilitarum_2k (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [121 PL, 13CP, 1915pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [52 PL, 6CP, 769pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Field Commander [-1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Vostroyan

Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 31pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Emperor's Wrath, Grand Strategist, Warlord

Tank Commander [12 PL, 167pts]: Heavy Bolter
. . Command Exterminator: Turret-mounted Exterminator Autocannon

Tank Commander [12 PL, 170pts]: Heavy Bolter
. . Command Punisher: Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. . 7x Guardsman
. . Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. . Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. . 7x Guardsman
. . Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. . Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. . 7x Guardsman
. . Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. . Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Master of Ordnance [2 PL, 30pts]: Emperor's Wrath, Relic (Emperor's Wrath): Agripinaa-Class Orbital Tracker, WT (Emperor's Wrath): Lord of Ordnance

+ Heavy Support +

Deathstrike [9 PL, 133pts]: Heavy Bolter

Wyverns [6 PL, 103pts]: Emperor's Wrath
. . Wyvern: Heavy Bolter

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [36 PL, 1CP, 636pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [2CP (+1 from Bjorn)]

+ HQ +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 234pts]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon

Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Bike [6 PL, 108pts]: Boltgun, Thunder hammer
. . Bike: Twin boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Land Speeders [6 PL, 98pts]
. . Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

Land Speeders [6 PL, 98pts]
. . Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

Land Speeders [6 PL, 98pts]
. . Land Speeder: Heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [33 PL, 5CP, 510pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [5CP]

Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose

+ HQ +

Celestine [8 PL, 160pts]

Missionary [2 PL, 35pts]

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister
. . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister
. . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]: 4x Battle Sister
. . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Seraphim
. . Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Bolt pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Exorcist [7 PL, 125pts]

3 hours ago, paxmiles said:

But in regards to impacts on your list, your complaints about the Vindicare being able to, for example, kill off your Cryptechs and KFF Meks isn't really representing a major change over the INDEX version of the same unit. So with a supposed TAC list, the Vindicare getting slightly better at killing characters shouldn't really be impacting your list that much.

 Unless, of course, your supposed TAC list wasn't prepared for the infamous Vindicare at all...

You're still analyzing things as if players are locked into a specific assassin, the vindicare in this case. But it's a wild card. I guarantee you that no TAC list was prepared for the possibility of one assassin of ANY KIND before these WD rules came out.

I think a TAC list from someone who doesn't play in large tournaments should still consider the lists (and styles of play) that show up in them. 

Then we have different definitions of TAC. When I think about TAC I'm thinking much broader than a local meta. In fact it seems oxymoronic to suggest that a list is designed to "take all comers" when you built it with only your local meta in mind.

Just now, paxmiles said:

If the places you play (which is what we call the "local meta")

Yes, this is the straw-man part. It's irrelevant if you're trying to build a truly TAC list.

I realize it's 1 CP and an 85pt deficit. But I still can't think of a compelling scenario where you pick that over the wild card. Also, the idea that an assassin loses "auto-include" status because of one's local meta is a straw-man argument. If you're building a TAC list, it's clearly better to have the wild card than not. And I still can't think of an army composition that would function better without the wildcard than with it.

I like your analysis. I agree that vehicle-heavy lists are the worst match-up for an assassin, but I still can't think of a list that would prefer to have 1 extra CP instead of a unit that can easily grab Linebreaker, contribute to Recon, and generally camp objectives / be annoying. The Culexus is definitely the best for this "keep-away" role. 

8 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

so it would mean building a list with an 85pt deficet and then either playing at a loss or selecting one of the assassins. So could be a liability in a mission where having more characters was a problem.

I struggle to think of any mission in which it would be disadvantageous to use 85 reserve points on one of these assassins

Yes

1 minute ago, fluger said:

BS 4 and order to re-roll 1s is tasty.

Well BS 3 (this is 8th ed :P) and I can use the unique Vostroyan stratagem to make one of them hit on 2's!

The poof happens pre-game when you use the strat to add an assassin

4 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Not really any different than scout snipers. That big mek has a weak profile and crappy stats. And this model being able to snipe characters isn't really changed much since it's index version.

Anyway, regarding why you'd care about the sniper's lost abilities. Used to be that the Vindicare could specifically kill off your nob in your ork boyz squad. That removed the main melee threat, and then the space marines with their good saves could beat you down in melee without risking ask much. 

Also Vindicare used to be able to destroy land raiders with a single shot...he's so much weaker than he was.

It's different from scout snipers because assassins are a wild card. If you're up against a list that seems ill-suited for a vindicare -- POOF! now he's an eversor, or whatever you might want. You have to evaluate the utility of all four assassins at once against the utility of a unit that takes up a force org slot.

3 minutes ago, fluger said:

1. I'm really excited because I wanted to make an imp soup list based on my fluff that would have IG/Ravenguard/Ad Mech and an Assassin.  Couldn't do it because of limit of 3.  Now I can.

I really hope they take a similar approach to adding Inquisition to Imperial armies 

6 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Can Cypher use the summoning stratagem to add assassins into a Chaos Army?

Yes but only the assassin summoning strat, he can't summon daemons