Slayer King

My first thoughts on the game. It is definitely a grind once you are in combat, like many said, rolling a lot of dice until units finally get grinded down (we did not flee or choose to retreat once in combat, so that could add some flavor to the game). I'm not sure that I like that wizards can cast everyone of their spells each round, especially if someone takes 4 wizards and what not. Though it is much simpler and the game does flow well, once rules are learned and you actually bring the printed sheets that you didn't bring so you had to look at your phone the whole time! I highly recommend you DON'T DO THAT! It took longer then I thought to destroy units, mostly because units have what was like ward saves in 8th, and makes units much tougher in that sense. It took my unit of 3 chaos spawn and 6 chaos nights 2 rounds of combat to destroy 10 plague bearers. This might have been because they were plague bearers but he was not making many of his regen saves. I don't mind shooting into combat if the shooting unit is in combat, but if their are multiple units, enemy or friend in the same combat you must randomize. Also some armies wouldn't care a lick about killing their own guys, skaven, orcs killing goblins, etc... so you should be able to do it. You should bet a -1 or 2 to your bravery if this happens as the unit gets disheartened by their own guys shooting at them. Maybe good armies get a higher minus to bravery because they are more honorable then others, just a thought. Or some armies can't do it and others can. I like the game because of it's simplicity and that I can get an army that is pretty well sized and themed for around 120 wounds. It still feels like a chaos force and I can theme it if I want to, which to me is really important. I love the history and bringing themed forces on the field (some of you could care less). I believe some additional scenarios to achieve victory conditions would be an added feel instead of the slug fest or sudden death ones. I give it a B- in re-guards to a game I can sit down play for a couple of hours and have fun. I also still get to paint some minis and hang with cool peeps. Pros for units -Chaos Knights are fast and pretty tough. They helped kill some plague bearers and dragon ogres. -Chaos Spawn are fun and an actual viable option now. I had a unit of three and doing 2D6 attacks each hitting on 4 and wounding on 4 is nice against the right target. If you roll a double for their attacks their TH and TW rolls go to a 3+! -Chaos Warriors are tough even with GW's. They have a 4+ save and 2 attacks each with 2 wounds. It took a Great Unclean One and 5 Glotkin dudes to take them out in 2 full rounds of combat. It was mostly because of the Glotkin dudes special rule within 3" of them that does D3 Mortal Wounds... That hurt and being puked on! -Bloodletters can do some damage if against right unit. -Crom is not going to kill much of anything but he does give a -1 to bravery if enemy unit is within 18" of him, was helpful. Combined with other minuses to bravery could be very usefull (like my Chaos Knights ability of fearsome opponent which gives units with in 3" of them a -1 to bravery. Bros army -Great Unclean one paired with Glotkin dudes is really hard to kill. I think my warriors would have killed him if he was able to regenerate his wounds because of his ability and then get some more regeneration because of the Glotkin's abilities. -Plague Drones, if used right and you know what they actually do, can do some really good damage. -Plague Bearers tough to kill, period.

My bro and I are going to try this (I know it has flaws but starting point). Decide how many scrolls you want (think of total number of units you'd like to see, characters are just added with this total, like many have said they do not hold thear own well) We are going to start at max 10 (could have less if you wanted) Next cap max wounds. Don't cap unit maxes. If someone wants to blow their wad all on zombies go for it. We are doing a 120 wound cap. My Chaos looks like this Crom Sorcerer BSB Warriors 15 Forsaken 10 Knights 6 Bloodletters 15 Spawn 2 Warshrine This is 9 scrolls and puts my wounds right at 120. We are going to start here and see if it has any depth at all. If not we are going to play same lists and do some Warmachine/Horde scenarios and see if this adds some depth to the game. Time will tell.

I'll be testing it out a couple of ways with my bro. After this we'll see.

Just adding something like objectives, like in 40k, could give the game some more depth and maybe tactics.??? Holding table quarters again or maybe table 6ths? Sure you can have your kill um all scenario, but make others to make it not about kill um all, which usually is down when trying to achieve an objective. There will be books on the relms, makes money, the problem is you have to put out a game people might actually want to play in order to buy the books. Just because you make good looking, I know subjective for some, models and we'll breakdown and buy. Bull[big bad swear word]! The game fails business wise cause they don't f'ING listen to their customers.

I agree completely with named characters. Only 1 of the same "named" character. In the Dakka thread they started talking about giving everything point values, which to me is tedious and at this point not needed (not to devalue any of their ideas as), but I was just thinking about making the game, still not complicated, I mean 4 pages of rules, but somewhat easier for us to sit down and say hey lets play, and here are the parameters. Someone mentioned wounds totals. Come to an agreed upon amount of wounds and play? Is this feasible and would it make it somewhat fair to both sides? First argument would be that someone would plop down only monsters or characters. Would they always whoop up on, if taking 30 wounds, lets say 20 wounds of skeletons and 1 or 2 other choices from the VC list that could boost Skeleton units? At first glance I feel that units could take down, what we saw in the old rules, better units. We also could go the route to categorize them into the groups they were in in 8th, (Lord, Heros, Core, Special, Rare) and give caps for each unit, and then make it a model count. Lord 0-1 Hero 0-2 Core 0-8? Special 0-3 Rare 0-3 This is just an example but then you would have equal number or as close to models. I personally don't like this because it takes away from some of the themed forces that you might be able to take now. From what I see. It also does create weaknesses if I chose to only take one unit type. And lastly theirs the categorize them by the new definition names GW gave them. So for example in the Dwarf War Scrolls and Chaos. Characters: Hero/Lord/Named/Wizard (you could do a LORD category and a HERO one) Units: Slayers, Hammerers, Miners, etc... , Marauders, Chaos Knights, Warriors etc... Monster/Machines: Flame Cannon, Cannon, etc... Warshrine, Hellcannon, Chariorts (or should chariots be units?) So just as an example of a game I would play with someone we would say: Characters: 3 Units: 6 Monster/Machines: 4 Some would take two slots, like a greater daemon is a monster and a character so would take one of each. Is this a good idea or is this not fair for those types of characters. Like characters riding monsters etc... My 2 bit. Thanks Pretre for the link.

Lets hear those ideas about making those lists somewhat balanced to have some kind of relevance to game creation. I get that you can take what you want and agree but lets just, for [big bad swear word]s and giggles, have some thoughtful ways to balance a game.

Agreed. Rules thread.

First of all I'm in agreement that without some restrictions on units I can take that all slayer army I've wanted or Ironbreaker Undkin list I've dreamt about without worrying about my special and rare choices. I agree with being able to take the models I have and I want to play. And for the most part... looking at the rules it seems that the game will be balanced if I do. Time will tell with this. I still think there should be "some restrictions" to what you take or an agreement amongst each other, which I guess we all could easily do that now, or this is what games workshop wants. You could always say in this game you can not take any named characters and can take 1 lord choice and 3 hero choices an you must have a minimum of 4 units (not sure what that looks like in the lists) and can have up to 3 warmachines, monsters that you want. Again the hard part is how many models each is allowed to take. I guess you just say each unit can have no more then 30-40 models in a unit and you can't have more then 60 models combined for all unit? Same thing for Monsters and such. A unit of as many Chaos Spawn that I want could be really deadly.

As a dwarf player 8th was more fun because you actually felt you could pull off a win. 8th is good but tactically week. Combine the 2 and you've got a damn good game.

I'm waiting to see as well what they do with the warhammer link on their Web page. Will they keep "Warhammer" or change it to AoS? That might say a lot as well. It's interesting that they chose to take "Warhammer" out of the name. They just added 40k to the future version. Why not just add AoS to the new one?

Ravening Hordes! There I said it... someone had to.

As sad as that is for me, been playing Warhammer since 5th edition, BG I think you are probably right. What were the three army types that were mentioned before all this AoS came out? There was the AoS, then the other two types depending on point values. Any stock in that being the next 2 releases once AoS shows it's worth or lack there of? Could we see maybe an 8 page rule book for a bigger system (I want to say points but that has not been confirmed) and maybe a 16 page rule book for the grand army. I'm somewhat excited to see what this looks like on the table and to see how it gets balanced. This is my biggest issue is how you can balance the games. Could this look like what you lads do with OFCC and make your own balance rules for fluff and go from there? Someone had posted about seeing different themed lists and I think that would be cool instead of always seeing that stupid lvl4 and death star units, although I think that death star units are going to be hard to get rid of in a sense because some units are just better. I'd like to do a chosen warriors with forsakin in it (to many favors), or a slayer list or a miners themed dwarf list. Hopefully I could do that and it would still be competitive. Couple more days... We'll see.

I second what BG is saying. It's not warhammer anymore, it's AoS. This will give people a chance to get into what once was the warhammer universe at a cheaper cost and then go from there. I believe that this is the starter to pull people in and then books/supplements come out to buy in the future. Or like Warmachine/Hordes does, you can buy faction packs, or now war scroll sets for a price digitally or hard copy. In regards to what Flanders said I do not think you will be able to take any model from any army. There are now the 4 "factions" and you probably can only pic/ally with armies frome that faction. So order with order, destruction with destruction, etc... I belive that the true warhammer as we know it will come out later after sales # come in. Hard to do both if bases don't matter any more though unless some game mechanics change.