Natetehaggresar

Hey Everyone,

I have some KoW undead in various states of assembly and paint. Looking to get rid of all of it as I don't expect to get the chance to play it again, and am busy with other games/projects/kids/life etc.

From recollection there are a pile of skeletons, revnants, two packs of skeliton cavalry, some wearvolves, ghouls, some catapults, some wraiths, and old 3 man unit of wights.

Mainly looking to get rid of them, let me know if you're interested.

Thanks!

-Nate

Adam  @thediceabide, and Jon @WiseKensai are the two warcors in Portland, they both regualarly play at Glimpses. Adam lives in Sherwood, and Jon works at intel, lives on the westside, so Glimpses is their most convenient shop. I'm sure they'd both be happy to help teach the game, the local meta is very welcoming. chill. 

As people have said there is no meta list. Which is good, because things are not cookie cutter. But also has its down sides, its hard to copy someone else's play and "do alright." The game has a lot of general rule that apply to everything are are shared accross factions, and very few rules which are restricted to 1 or a handful of factions, so it can be overwhelming at first to lean all the general rules. 

Play some smaller games with Adam and Jon, and don't be concerned about winning, just be concerned about trying stuff and seeing what things do.

And as you start to make your own lists, as said there is not a magic list but there are some good general guidelines;

1. Spend all/most your SWC, these points buy you more powerful guns/profiles, not spending them leaves points on the table,

2. Bring a variety of guns, so you can be effective at a variety of ranges,

3. Bring a mix of cheap guys and powerful guys. Cheap guys fulfill lots of purposes, pushing buttons, watching you six, etc., but they also provide orders more cost effectively which lets you do things. A powerful expenseive guy only can be activated once on his own during a turn. If he has cheap friends you can activate him more giving your more options. Finding a good mix of expensive and cheap guys that works for you is a large part of developing your play style.

@Raindog a looting and sabotaging hack is to take a Arjuna with bots then have all of them loot d charges from the panoply. 9 d charges (with burst bonus from friends in cc) can get [big bad swear word] done quickly.

You're correct, playing more in the answer.

I don't think switching factions really helps.

Infinity at its CORE has a very robust set of general rules shared by nearly all factions. The number of restricted unique rules is so low that I probably could count it on my hands and feed. (White noise, triads (but really they're just links), ecplise, symbiot mates/symbiot armor etc.)

A Zero is very much similar to a Naga, Guilang, Hunzakut, foxtrot, shrouded etc. Each is basically the same thing with a twist.

Similarly basic HI have analogs, as do LI etc. What really defines the factions are combinations of shared skill sets. I.E. TO camo + a Missle Launcher is terrifying, and that combination is limited to Pano, Yu Jing, and CA. 

You also understand the threat that a HI link poses, and you understand super jump, but you just haven't seen those qualities combined into a single package until you faced a hollowman link.

The challenge you're facing is learning to identify the potential of all these shared abiliites when combined into unique packages. A part of it can be learned through your own imagination, and a part is learned through play experience when you see someone else get creative with their usage of a set of skills. Thats really the beauty of infinity's rule set, finding creative solutions to problems posed on the table. 

You can switch if you want, but I think it will cause you some initial head ache re-learning a new tools set, while also trying to learn your opponents tool set. It sounds like you had identified mistakes you made during your games, so I think you're making progress. When you play, you might want to just be super upfront about things and ask your opponent about why/what they plan to do. When you're learning I don't think anyone at ordo would fault you for playing the game in that manner. It might help you get some insight about what twists they have in their rule sets.

As for the Tysklon, they're a decent tool, there are some pros for including them in a brigada link;

1. They;re cheaper so drive down the link price

2. They carry a repeater, so you can leverage other hackers to perform some limited area denial for vectors to attach your link.

3. Spitfires are a good mid range weapon, and the brigada profiles only have closer range weapons or longer range ones, it can be a good bridge.

4. Climbing plus can open up different attack vectors

5. Pitchers are also useful tools for making use of hacking tools sets

6. The 360 visor is good for watching your back (but not as good as total reaction, also note suppressive fire is good, but automatically breaks the link)

They also carry some negatives

1. They;re a lot more fragile with only 1 wound and lighter armor

2. Their BS is lower, which can be mitigated by support ware

3. They carry repeater, which can also be used by enemy hackers to kill your own hackers if you're not careful

4. The large sillouhette can also restrict your mobility and limit where you link can move, it can also be hard to hide out of LoF.

Note that the repeater is both a boon and a restriction. Like most things in this game, how you use it really dictates whether it is a good thing or a bad thing.

Good luck!

I used to use that color a lot for my Khador and Nomads.

I don't have any, but I've been using Vallejo Heavy Red Base and its close, then I build up highlights from there. I'm not OCD about colors needing to match perfectly though.

https://www.amazon.com/Vallejo-Color-Heavy-X-Opaque-Paint/dp/B0058HYFTM

Hey @Mack

First your short question, hecklers of all types are good. Jammers are good too, most of the hate/annoyance you'll see online about Jammers comes from mutts in Haq, which are 5 point dudes with wip 15 and a jammer. You can lock down much more of the board with 4 Jammers then you can with 1. A single heckler with a jammer costs more than max mutts, they are a good tool to cause passive area denial, but unlike Haq, you can't just spam it. (Each Heckler profile fills a very different role because their gear is so different, read the Tunguska guide on the big board.)

Tools like hacking (and especially Moran) and Jammers are very powerful for passive denial. The hope is to cover a space with a jammer/repeater that your opponent needs to move through to engage you. Set up so that space is covered by a regular attack and a comms attack. If you do it right you either force your opponent to avoid an area or suffer a normal roll from at least one attack. Moran's are excellent at this because they are a walking area denial, with both a repeater and koalas who can only be resisted by different skills, dodge a koala, reset v hacking.

Corregidor can do hacking, but I'd noticeably weaker than the other nomad ships. I'd still rate them as a B overall, but they're not stand out. Repeater coverage is a double edges sword due to killer hackers, as a min I would field a bandit killer hacker + another hacker if you want to go that route. (Best defense being a good offense). Also remember hacking offensively only works against things that are hackable.

There is a lot of noise on the forum, and people who consider them selves bleeding edge competitive, don't like things because they are un-optimized and you waste points. Some players do well running only highly optimized units, but IMO it's a very limited view of the game, and as I believe you correctly point out, I don't think you can solve for infinity.

There are too many permutations of just tables/density and missions, let alone opponents.

Personally I value units that have options. All the light flame throwers on wildcats are wasted points, until you're holding an objective in tight quarters, then they become very powerful disincentive and to engage them... Wildcats have a little bit of legacy point costing, see the 2 swc hrl, but nothing debilitating.

It seems like you enjoy a nuanced view of the game and I appreciate that.

The brigada will move faster, and probably degrade slower with the extra wounds and arm. But you also lose out on the extra orders, which offsets the slower speed. 

I think what you might find more productive than comparing two sets of units to each other in vacuum, is to instead sit down and look at missions and think about what tools you for it. Then look at what tools your units can bring. For instance wildcats have shorter ranged weapons, d charges, and direct templates, and are non hackable, they are good at holding in a close assult/objective rooms scenario, whereas brigada have access to missile launchers and hmgs, which lend themselves more easily to fire support. (They can break down doors too, see the boarding shotgun, but they lack the mid range spitfire, and hacking vulnerability can be a drag up close).

Anyway food for thought.

@Seshia the rampage isn't a highly competitive event.

The focus is on having a good time, custom missions, scoring for food, charity donations, etc.

I have gotten the green light to attend, please sign me up!

For cheap order monkeys *cough cough* its hard to beat the Imetron/Ikedrone blister. 

The Imetron are 4 point orders, and the Ikedrones are probably one of the most efficient deployment zone guards in the game, and occassionally can slag something way above their price point with dual light flamers.

Note on the timing of hungries explosions, it happens during the resolution step, so there is no opportunity for your opponent to ARO, its actually very nasty, careful with your model placement!)

Don't get too hung up on specialists for highly classified.

If you look through the ITS X deck, there is a significant reduction in specialist emphasis, as a lot of objectives require you to be a certain type of troop or have other gear.

I have counts in this google doc

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z-RSBTDhExOlZUnCILQNZYrbXM6wp6es-V4zAbZUv78/edit#gid=0

@dataentity Acon was formally retired. (Miniature support dropped continued rules support).

I haven't been following all the videos, but I don't think they announced a "retirement" for vanilla Tohaa. Though I'm a perennial optimist.

Fwiw they're discontinuing the current skus. I assume recent sculpts like Sukeal commandos will get repacked into 2 model blisters.

Older models are probably getting cleared out for resculpt.

Everybody has different preferences, based on missions, factions, and personal play style.

I like 10 orders in one pool and 1-2 regular orders in a second + some chaff in vanilla nomads. 

When I play vanilla Aleph I generally like 10 orders plus 1-3ish support models in group 2. On the other hand @Exile tends to run 10 + ~6 when I see him play vanilla aleph.

CA is a on the elite in for sure, more like Aleph.

Infinity games last 3 rounds, if you start with 10 orders and don't suffer any casualties, you have a cap of 30 orders. Realistically you're gonna loose guys. Having a few extra guys in the second pool to refill loses using command tokens helps you to retain the orders you need for your elite models to do their job. If you have a really small list, say 8 guys, go second and suffer a few casualties before you even start, you're going to be hamstrung.

10 orders is viable, and even gets some perks thrown at it in standard missions, but it requires you to keep a laser focus on the misson, and to know how to use all the extra gear and stats on your units optimally. As a new player its a steep learning curve. Even just a few extra guys really helps.

I don't want to over emphasize list building, infinty is far less list dependant that other games I've played. I don't think you can really break the game or netlist in infinity, the interplay between mission, terrain, and your opponent is too complex, and I think you won't find a generally accepted list of good or bad armies or factions. BUT, like in any game you can list build yourself into an uphill situation, and since you're also talking about what you want to PURCHASE, I thought I should point you early on to some staples that you will find useful. (an extra pro of some cheap guys is that you can toss them in wherever, expensive models define your list). 

For instance the smoke and chain rifle, and to a lesser extent martial arts, will allow a daturazi to fulfill useful roles in the game, that other units you already posses can't. I would reccomend getting daturazi over say morat vanguard as an initial purchase because vanguard don't do much that something nastier with a HMG, like your tag, don't already do better. Vanguard have a place, especially in MAF where they can link, but as you currently are working with a vanilla collection, Dats would be very useful to round out points/orders. (as would the mentioned many times ikadrone/imetron blister). Both of those units are work horses in vanilla that would well support your heavier hitters, by watching their backs, and funneling them orders.

Pretas/Gakis are really amazing chaff, but they are irregular so don't provide support to the order pool, they don't round out the list in the same way, but would be a good addition.

I would also consider the regular Drones box (Q, M, and other letters) as a staple.

By ablative armor I mean meat shields. 

A very common and useful way to deny access to an area is to place a model out of LoF watching a corner. If your opponent comes by blast him with a chain rifle/flamer etc. It's a very useful tool to deny your flank.

Expendable dudes with direct templates are ideal for this, such as daturazi or ikadrones.

10 dudes producing orders is pretty much the bare minimum at 300 points.

I wouldn't get too caught up on sectorials right now, just because your budding collection is already spread across all the faction. (Fwiw EI aspects don't work for any sectorials). Just play vanilla to start. 

You've got some good firepower right now, but you're seriously light on orders, and your also lacking in ablative armor/tools. The imetron blister is good for both, as would a box of daturazi. Smoke or camo are the two most powerful tools in infinity and daturazi are an excellent smoke platform.

(Smoke and camo are incredibly powerful because they allow your to pick and choose when/if you engage something. Sometimes it's far easier to smoke a hall way and walk in to a room to score and objective, then to engage whatever is attempting to stop you.)

Thats a pretty good start.

I'd probably recommend 1 or even 2 blisters of Imetron/Ikadrones.

The Slave Drone's don't provide orders (read G:Servant) so for 3 points you get a body that project's your med techs ability to engineer/dr across the board. (which is good but does not really provide "filler" at least as far as order pool is concerned)

Imetrons are 4 points and they provide orders (and not much else).

Ikadrones are very useful remotes, at 9 points they're still cheap and provide orders, but unlike imetrons they do work. Their repeater and flamer make them excellent at area denial.

Oh and since you were asking about geckos earlier.

If you have multiples OF THE SAME weapon you can dual weild during active turn only.

Dual wield adds plus 1 burst, so geckos have burst 4 combi rifles.

Versatility is correct.

Having a machine gun that is good from 16 inches to 32, can be well supplemented by a heavy pistol good 0 to 8. You can pick the ideal weapon for the range.

Flame throwers and similar are also very useful for their versatility. Direct templates auto hit unless your opponent dodges. This makes them very powerful defensive weapons. Think about the structure of an order.

First short skill your opponent walks into lof to shoot your tag.

You declare an ARO shoot with a heavy flamer.

Your opponent can now waste their second short skill dodging or elect to trade shots with their weapons.

Tags have high arm and wounds so your flamer will likely kill any 1 wound trooper and unless they're packing serious firepower may not even dent the tag.

No I don't think anything is crazy over or under represented locally. I don't play at Ordo, but when ordo peeps show up to other events they seem to have a spread of things they bring. (Or when I show up to ORDO ones).

A local @thediceabide wrote this, it's pretty help for picking a faction.

https://www.thediceabide.com/blog/2018/8/3/infinity-which-faction-is-for-you

One thing to keep in mind is that very few rules are omitted for very few factions. It's not like 40k or Warmachine where each faction has a lot of unique rules. What makes things unique is how they are put together on different units. 

Named characters are A okay.

SWC is a second set of points used to buy special equipment.

Generally swc is an extra tax on top of points that buys:

1. Long range and/or powerful guns

2. Hacking equipment

3. Other powerful equipment or is an extra tax on things that are rare (or rare in a faction for fluff/design reasons).

SWC costs prohibit you for example from fielding a list where everyone has a HMG.

You do not need to spend any swc, but in effect you are leaving points off the table. Generally advice is to spend most if not all your swc. If you're clocking in below 5 (especially in nomads, I would at least reconsider).

Infinity's mission system is very intense compared to other games. You actually have 3 opponents, the mission, the table, and finally the guy sitting across from you.

To that effect it's hard to build an all comers list as what you need to accomplish missions can vary dramatically. (Tournaments and leagues generally publish missions to be used in advance). You of course don't know the table or opponent in advance, but you can try to do things like include weapons with a variety of ranges to account for different tables.

Your list you posted might look intimidating, OMG lots of big stompy robots, but it isn't to an experienced player. Geckos can easily bully weak troops, they have a high armor to points and wounds ratio, but are noticably under gunned. Hackers and elite striker type models can mess them up, especially if the striker can engage at favorable terms, such as out ranging the MK12' 24 inches. (Active players burst advantage is very telling).

The list also generally is short on orders. As a rule of thumb you want at least 10 at 300 points. Less than that and you'll probably find yourself struggling to complete objectives and fight your opponent since both will drain your pool. (My preference is around 12-14, Peter likes to push it even higher) Also your pilots are specialist operatives so generally they can complete most mission requirements, but to do so they have to jump out of the tag, and the pilots themselves are pretty vulnerable.

Hey BB peeps.

I'm looking for a spare pro elf or two. I have the contents of one box and need another catcher(don't we all).

I converted a third from the passer by doing an arm swap in to a line elf body. If anyone has a passer they don't want and a spare line elf I'd be interested in picking it up.

(Seeing as 2 boxes with 12 line elves, and 4 passers seems to be a bit of overkill).

Technically only limited insertion fomat prohibits the strategic use of command tokens.

A single combat group list prohibits being stripped 2 orders. Your opponent can still use a command tokens to limit first player to using one command token first turn.

Thanks for the good time @Raindog!