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44 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I raise you the New 52, post crisis.

I was specifically referring to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the DC Extended Universe film franchises. 

Falling down the rabbit hole of comics continuity is guaranteed to drive us more insane than reading the Necronomicon in Wonderland while doing LSD.

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A friend of my wife rented out the Clinton Streeet theater and showed the film version of Star Wars today. The droids were dirty and oily. Luke and the Jawas were covered with sand and dust. Han shot

Different strokes, I guess.  Saw it in the theaters, loved it.  Almost as much as this guy loves Mozart.  

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42 minutes ago, Ish said:

I was specifically referring to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the DC Extended Universe film franchises. 

Falling down the rabbit hole of comics continuity is guaranteed to drive us more insane than reading the Necronomicon in Wonderland while doing LSD.

You mean you don't go caving on a bakers dozen of blotter?

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10 hours ago, Duckman said:

And see, this is the same problem I have with JL in a nutshell.  Batman *can* fight and kill Superman.  Why the heck can he *not* fight Steppenwolf?

Batman was able to fight Superman because he was familiar with him and was able to exploit his weaknesses. Batman is a master tactician. He wasn't capable of beating him though. Superman died by compromising his own invulnerability to kill a creature of similar power and with the same weakness.  ZSJL Batman was constantly in over his head. He brought out all of his best tech and it was consistently overmatched. Cyborg had to get the Nightcrawler going after it got beat, and the Batmobile got destroyed by grunts.

He says over and over again in the movie that his best way to contribute is to unite powerful beings and his wealth. 

10 hours ago, Duckman said:

Aside from GRR Martin, *nobody* writes stuff where the outcome is indeterminate (and George's writing is so bad that the only logic to when characters die is "I was bored of him" so that's not an improvement).  I mean, let's get serious...  DCU is the one we were talking about 6 months ago with Wonder Woman '84.  Did you have any questions about the outcome there?  Was there something I missed where Maxwell Lord wished to be invincible and able to take punches from an Amazon?

I won't defend WW'84. It was a very stupid movie. You can see my review of it at the top of the previous page. I'm not here to emphatically state that DCU is "better" than MCU, though I do prefer it. I appreciate that they experiment with ideas rather than take a formula and repeat it 20+ times. MCU plays it very, very safe. It is a cash machine, not an artist's sandbox. There are plenty of misses but Shazam and Birds of Prey are far more fun than any movie Marvel has done in years, IMO. Thor Ragnarok is the last really interesting entry in the MCU it was largely due to it being different feeling than everything they'd done recently.

The only MCU characters who have perma-died are ones who died because the actors got bored of their contracts. Is that interesting? Not to me. We knew Stark and Cap were going to have a proper send off. Black Widow is chronologically dead, but is getting her own show...so does it matter? Not really.

6 hours ago, Brother Glacius said:

I'm sorry, you complain about the MCU bringing back everyone when characters actually did die at the end of it? And the DCU just brought back the only person it had killed, ie Superman with a moronic "lets use these mother boxes" plot line?? Give me a break. 

After Infinity War, the conversation immediately shifted to how they were going to go back in time to undo the snap. Much of the speculation was that they'd somehow separate the Time Stone and go back that way. Turns out the Time Stone doesn't matter AT ALL because there are other ways of controlling time. Is it less moronic to have multiple ways of controlling time, and thus undercutting the supposed importance of a one-of a kind stone?

There was never any doubt that everyone who got snapped away was going to snap back, and there were absolutely no consequences whatsoever from it. While it was never in doubt whether Superman would remain dead, his resurrection was actually a plot point. There were characters arguing against it and it didn't work out perfectly. Everyone was in total agreement that unsnapping was the correct course of action, they did it, and there were high 5s all around. Exciting stuff 🙄 

We knew which characters were going to stay dead long before Endgame came out. We merely watched it to see by which manner they'd be dispatched. All with noble and glorious ends.

It's also more than a little intellectually dishonest to compare the first ensemble movie of one franchise with the 4th of another. Did a single Avenger suffer anything more than a mild inconvenience in the first movie? Of course not. That wouldn't bring the "feel good" vibes.

Conversely, ZSJL hints at a post-apocalyptic future where the world still gets destroyed, despite their efforts. Where Superman has turned evil, Batman has compromised his code, and several others have died. A world where things can't just be fixed with enough gumption and brightly colored suits.

Will that be realized? I genuinely don't know. But the MCU wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot-pole. It might mess up the pretty bow they put on the ending.

 

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12 hours ago, Munkie said:

ZSJL hints at a post-apocalyptic future where the world still gets destroyed, despite their efforts. Where Superman has turned evil, Batman has compromised his code, and several others have died. A world where things can't just be fixed with enough gumption and brightly colored suits.

This is the exact opposite of the story I want to see in a superhero movie. Superman and the Batman are meant to inspire hope for tomorrow, the courage to face our fears, and the conviction that doing the right thing is the right thing.

I want a story where gumption (and a brightly colored suit) triumphs over malfeasance (and a dark suit).

Otherwise, I can just stay home and read the newspaper.

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Against my better judgement, I finished the movie yesterday. Going back in time to fix things? Really? Best you could come up with? And then it still went on for another 20+ minutes after that?? And for what, a preview of something that will never be? Oh, and lets toss in MM just because we need to extend this film? I wasn't a fan of the first cut either, it seemed like a poor version of Avengers. The second version is a pure ego trip.

And you are really complaining that the Snap was undone? Like that would somehow make the MCU better? Tell me what other superhero movie have you seen where the hero doesn't win and everyone dies? Did the demons win in Shazam? huh..nope..was there any question about that? Nope. I'm sorry, but that is a dumb argument to make about a hero movie. "The good guys won...so unoriginal." So if that is your big complaint about the MCU...1st world problems.

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21 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

Against my better judgement, I finished the movie yesterday. Going back in time to fix things? Really? Best you could come up with? And then it still went on for another 20+ minutes after that?? And for what, a preview of something that will never be? Oh, and lets toss in MM just because we need to extend this film? I wasn't a fan of the first cut either, it seemed like a poor version of Avengers. The second version is a pure ego trip.

And you are really complaining that the Snap was undone? Like that would somehow make the MCU better? Tell me what other superhero movie have you seen where the hero doesn't win and everyone dies? Did the demons win in Shazam? huh..nope..was there any question about that? Nope. I'm sorry, but that is a dumb argument to make about a hero movie. "The good guys won...so unoriginal." So if that is your big complaint about the MCU...1st world problems.

 

Watchmen

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47 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

Against my better judgement, I finished the movie yesterday. Going back in time to fix things? Really? Best you could come up with? And then it still went on for another 20+ minutes after that?? And for what, a preview of something that will never be? Oh, and lets toss in MM just because we need to extend this film? I wasn't a fan of the first cut either, it seemed like a poor version of Avengers. The second version is a pure ego trip.

And you are really complaining that the Snap was undone? Like that would somehow make the MCU better? Tell me what other superhero movie have you seen where the hero doesn't win and everyone dies? Did the demons win in Shazam? huh..nope..was there any question about that? Nope. I'm sorry, but that is a dumb argument to make about a hero movie. "The good guys won...so unoriginal." So if that is your big complaint about the MCU...1st world problems.

You're getting very worked up about this, but whatever.

I'm not complaining that the snap was undone. My point is there is never any tension in any MCU movie. The snap did not matter at all. Half of all life was wiped out and there was no emotional impact whatsoever. Because not only do you know the snap will be undone, there will be no moral questions about whether undoing it is right, no debate about what the consequences might be, and it turns out there will be no consequences so it's a good thing they didn't waste time wondering if there might be.

It could have been an interesting arc, but since everything is effortless, care free, and turns out exactly as planned, it wasn't. 

You complained that using Mother boxes is a moronic way to bring a character back. I responded that having supposedly important stones end up not mattering because there is always another out is equally, if not more moronic.

"Thats the best you can come up with" is not actually a counter argument. At least I offered one.

Can you explain why setting up the Infinity Stones to be important over the course of 20+ movies, and then illustrating that they, in fact, are not important in one movie is good story telling?

All comic book movies are absurd and unrelatable on some level. I just find the sacredness (both in the way Disney tightly controls the IP and the worship of fans) laughable. 

"The plot devices of my comic book movies are beyond reproach! Yours are stupid and it's wrong for you to not agree!"

You don't have to like it, that's fine. I'm not head over heels for it, but I found it more interesting than anything the formulaic and repetitive MCU movies have done in a long time.

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58 minutes ago, Munkie said:

Can you explain why setting up the Infinity Stones to be important over the course of 20+ movies, and then illustrating that they, in fact, are not important in one movie is good story telling?

Eh, we haven't seen the ramifications of futzing with the stones, yet. Though, if the comics are any indication, there won't be. 🤣

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Kongzilla

Mechagodzilla, NERV HQ, and plug suit time was severely under used. I'm not a fan of the MV Godzilla design, nor mechazilla, but the fit each other.  Turkey bats should have started singing. I am pretty sure that isn't how defibrillators work. Having the pilot talking out the forward windows to the deaf person to his rear, repeatedly, was old.  Fun movie. Doesn't feel like a waste of time, unlike Rise of Skywalker.  

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New Mortal Kombat 

It was odd. A much better adaptation than the 1995 version (though I know some love it). They still got Reptile wrong, and it was weird that the main protagonist was a hitherto unknown character. A mix of Johnny Cage and Baraka (I thought).

It felt heavily edited. Then again, a 2.5 hour version of the movie would be a lot to sit through.

It felt like they couldn't decide if it was the first movie in a 2 or 3 part series or a standalone movie. I'm guessing the studio pressured them to make it work either way and, depending on reaction, they'll go further. If they don't, the story is incomplete. If they do, some iconic characters will be missed.

 

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On 3/27/2021 at 10:04 AM, Munkie said:

Because not only do you know the snap will be undone, there will be no moral questions about whether undoing it is right, no debate about what the consequences might be, and it turns out there will be no consequences so it's a good thing they didn't waste time wondering if there might be.

There’s three or four scenes that consist of nothing but the characters debating what the consequences of the “time heist” might be. It’s like the entire character arc for Tony... 

And there are major consequences.

The entire plot of both WandaVision and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier rested entirely on exploring the moral questions of the snap, the snap’s undoing, and the consequences of both. Spider-Man: Far From Home also touched on these issues, albeit not as heavily. 

We haven’t seen it yet, but it seems quite likely that these issues will also be a major part of the story in Black Widow, Loki, Hawkeye, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, and likely the next Spider-Man.... Probably gonna be a major part of Thor’s journey in Thor: Love and Thunder too.

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23 minutes ago, Ish said:

There’s three or four scenes that consist of nothing but the characters debating what the consequences of the “time heist” might be. It’s like the entire character arc for Tony... 

He is concerned exclusively about his family. He doesn't want to go back in time to prevent the snap because he'd lose his family. Beyond that, they care only about bringing back Hawkeye's family, and bringing back their friends. There is no consideration about the moral implications of any of it.

It is wrong for Thanos to snap people away. Therefore, reversing that is morally right (as long as Stark keeps his family). Never do they consider that just because they have the power to bring people back from the dead, maybe it's not their right to do so. 

How many oppressed worlds were able to liberate themselves because, due to random chance, their oppressive regimes were imbalanced and toppled?

How many people lost loved ones and moved on in the ensuing 5 years, only to to have the lost return, hurt and alienated that they no longer have the family they once knew?

Do the Avengers stop for even the briefest moment to consider anyone they don't know by name? Of course not. They are completely self-absorbed. 

But you're right, after Disney made 20 MCU films, they have finally started asking some moral questions with their less cookie cutter projects on Disney+.

WandaVision started off as a really interesting show, but got more boring as it went on, to the point where I didn't like the Scarlet Witch AT ALL by the end. A completely unrelatable, and frankly garbage human being. But good for her for finally deciding to emancipate her slaves once she realized slavery is still wrong. Bummer for her.

Falcon and Winter Soldier is the first interesting thing MCU has put out since Thor Ragnarok.

Regardless, none of this has anything to do with my review of Justice League. I enjoyed it because it felt different. I prefer DC because there is more creative space. There isn't the dogmatic adherence to timelines, you don't have to have the same actors reprise their roles, etc. Want Margot Robbie to play Harley Quinn? Go for it. Want Kaley Cuoco to play Harley Quinn? Go for it. It's a sandbox to play in, not a tightly controlled and absolutely massive project spanning dozens and dozens of hours.

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It’s a sandbox to play in, but most of the films have looked like the result of a cat using the sandbox... 

I’m a dyed in the wool DC Comics fanboy, but their cinematic efforts ever since TimeWarner decided to chase after the MCU have ranged from terrible to mediocre. Wonder Woman and Shazam have been their best... and frankly, they’re merely average. 

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